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Topic: Alternative Fluids ??? (Read 935 times) previous topic - next topic

Alternative Fluids ???

I just had KC Freightliner in Olathe, KS change my transmission fluid and coolant. I had asked for Transynd but they used Mobil Delvac, TES 295 approved and for the coolant they used Detroit PowerCool.

I asked for extended life coolant and was told that was what they used but today I checked a jug of coolant and it was not PowerCool Plus, just regular PowerCool. It appears that they used standard ethyleneglycol coolant with SCA added. It is pink not green but the container says ethyleneglycol. It is my understanding that extended life coolant is OAT not ethyleneglycol coolant. They charged me $14.70 per gallon and I am pretty sure they didn't use distilled water but just tap water. I paid almost $200 in labor for the coolant change expecting that I would get permanent antifreeze and not have to pay for it again for many years. Practically speaking, how long can I run this coolant vs. real ELC?

Right now I'm pretty unhappy that I didn't get what I expected. From what I can find out, I think the Dlevac is OK since it is TES 295 approved, but if I ask for Transynd I expect to get Transynd.
The selected media item is not currently available.Kent Speers
Locust Grove, OK
1993 U300 SSE 40' (Restored at FOT 2009) Build 4323
720 watts Solar
6V92TA DDEC Silver Engine
2014 Subaru Outback

Re: Alternative Fluids ???

Reply #1 –
Quote from: Kent Speers –
Right now I'm pretty unhappy that I didn't get what I expected. From what I can find out, I think the Dlevac is OK since it is TES 295 approved, but if I ask for Transynd I expect to get Transynd.

Kent... I hope you paid with a credit card. If so, and if it were me, I'd be tempted to appeal the charges on the basis that they did not perform the work you requested.

One of the reasons I want a "home base" with a shop is to give me a place to perform the routine maintenance chores myself. I get the impression that many of these shops look upon non-resident customers as "fair game". I actually had one attempt to convince me that a simple U-joint problem was a bad transmission. Just before I drove off he told me that they didn't accept credit cards any more because too many people had appealed (and won).

Of course, anything can happen on the road and we are more-or-less at the mercy of whomever is close enough to take us in. Maybe we should start making a database of places we can trust... and those we cannot.

Craig
1993 U225 36' Unihome GV with PACBRAKE exhaust retarder, Banks Stinger and Solar Panels.
Toad: 1999 Jeep Wrangler 2-door soft-top.

"No one has ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke."

Re: Alternative Fluids ???

Reply #2 –
D'oh! :headwall:

I took our SOB to Freightliner in Bryan, TX, because it was on a Freightliner chassis. They fixed the horn wiring and charged the dash air after having the coach for a week. They started working on it after I arrived and said I would take it, ready or not. The bill was several hundred dollars. I decided that I would find and use recommended service facilities after that experience.

We have been fortunate enough to be able to use facilities in NAC since we bought the FT. Thanks for sharing your experience. It reinforces my resolve to use facilities recommended by folk on this forum if at all possible.

Unfortunately, my expertise on fluids is mostly gained from a presentation from James Triana at the Mid-South Rally. My recollection is that he pretty much said stick with fluids that were in your coach when the coach was new. Transynd may be an exception. As always, other folk will have different opinions and some of them are likely to be expert opinions.
J D Stevens
1997 U295 CAI 36' Build #5085
2002 Subaru Outback
Motorcade 16869
Bellville, TX

Re: Alternative Fluids ???

Reply #3 –
Uhhh.  If I were you I would go right back and have a temper tantrum and have them drain EVERYTHING and replace it with the stuff you ordered!!  They just thought they were never going to see you again and sent you down the road.  WHAT????? 
Carol & Jeff Savournin
Usta have a '93 U225 36', Usta have a '95 U320 40', Usta have a '02 U320 40'
Usta have a 2006 Born Free, Usta have a 2011 Phoenix Cruiser
Usta have a 2012 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited 4dr
"Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life."  Steve Jobs

Re: Alternative Fluids ???

Reply #4 –
Appeal the charges to your credit card company.  If a check stop it.  You had a verbal or written contract if your request was on the work order.  If you did not agree to substitutes then they should not have used them.  I think that in small claims court they would lose.

Keith
Keith, Joyce & Smokey the Australian Cattle Dog
1995 U320 SE Extreme 40' WTBI Build # 4780, with a Honda CR-V hopefully still following behind.
Motorcade # 17030
FMCA # F422159

Re: Alternative Fluids ???

Reply #5 –
Knowing that everyone cannot do this......When we lived in Eastern Pa it was ALWAYS worth the time and expense to drive to NAC for service.. We have been fortunate to also find reliable and honest service in our travels, but still make NAC a stop twice a year. Stallings, Mot, FOT are all great. 
We are only strangers until we meet; however, some of us are stranger than others

Re: Alternative Fluids ???

Reply #6 –
I agree with the posters. Kent, raise hell.

Face it. If you paid for back surgery and woke up to find they did a vasectomy instead you would be more than a little upset, wouldn't you?
Nitehawk,  Demolition Lady, & our NEW master, Zippy the speeding BB cat.
1989 Grand Villa 36' ORED
Oshkosh chassis, 8.2 DD V8
2006 Saturn Vue AWD

Re: Alternative Fluids ???

Reply #7 –
Quote
Face it. If you paid for back surgery and woke up to find they did a vasectomy instead you would be more than a little upset, wouldn't you?

True. But the vasectomy part would not bother those with the usual side effects of prostate cancer ;o)

best, paul
1999 U320 40' 1200 watts on roof. 12cf AC/DC Cold plate fridge/freezer. VMS 240 CL Honda Element

Re: Alternative Fluids ???

Reply #8 –
Kent,
      I have spoken with a few Allison shops and some of them use the Allison Transynd and some use the Mobil Delvac Tes 295 equiv, so I called Allison direct and spoke with a fliuds enginner. I was told the two fluids are compatible and can be mixed as if one.
    Before service would be a good time to have a written statement of work to be done noting specific materials to be used.
Good luck,
Rick

Re: Alternative Fluids ???

Reply #9 –
I would prefer the vasectomy at my age, but a castration is a whole different matter. :o :o
Some things are fixable, some are not.
Cheers
Dave M

Re: Alternative Fluids ???

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Dave M –
I would prefer the vasectomy at my age, but a castration is a whole different matter. :o :o
Some things are fixable, some are not.
Cheers
Dave M

We owned a farm for 20 years that was farther than 35 miles from the nearest doctor's office. One day my wife had me and the family cat fixed on the same trip to town. You did not waste trips to town!

The major disadvantage to the surgery the cat had was that he would ask to be let outside and then would sit around on the porch for a while trying to remember exactly why he had wanted to be outside.

This is a true story... and I have a catnip toy around here somewhere to prove it!

Craig
1993 U225 36' Unihome GV with PACBRAKE exhaust retarder, Banks Stinger and Solar Panels.
Toad: 1999 Jeep Wrangler 2-door soft-top.

"No one has ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke."

Re: Alternative Fluids ???

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Rick –
Kent,
      I have spoken with a few Allison shops and some of them use the Allison Transynd and some use the Mobil Delvac Tes 295 equiv, so I called Allison direct and spoke with a fliuds enginner. I was told the two fluids are compatible and can be mixed as if one.
    Before service would be a good time to have a written statement of work to be done noting specific materials to be used.
Good luck,

Rick, thanks for the input. I appreciate the support from everyone but I am really looking for guidance regarding the damage done. I came to the same conclusion about the transmission fluid Rick did but I appreciate having it confirmed.

I wanted ELC coolant but got regular SCA loaded ethyleneglycol coolant and that is what they charged me for.  I feel sure that they used tap water with the ethyleneglycol. I once read a post by I believe Brett Wolfe that said one should always use distilled water. What I can't decide is do most places use distilled water when replacing antifreeze? I called the largest local RV dealer and found out that they always use tap water, even with ELC. I guess I will call FOT and MOT and see what they say. How much damage if any can be done by running tap water with regular ethyleneglycol?
The selected media item is not currently available.Kent Speers
Locust Grove, OK
1993 U300 SSE 40' (Restored at FOT 2009) Build 4323
720 watts Solar
6V92TA DDEC Silver Engine
2014 Subaru Outback

Re: Alternative Fluids ???

Reply #12 –
Kent, a few weeks ago I had my system drained and flushed by our biggest Diesel shop ( they are very busy and I trust them) and they put in the extened life OAT and they flushed with tap water. I asked them if they use Distilled and they said never-why? So I guess it is pretty standard.
John H
Coachless, now use aircraft. 2003 Ford Travelair TC280 class C. Super shape. Just for 1 yr .
1994 Ford E350 ClassC,total renovation inside and out. Now sold.
2000 U295  36' Cummins 350 c/w Banks Stinger, Resonator upgrade,Solar, LED lites.Residential fridge with slide out pantry. Build 5674. Sold
ex 92 GV 022C ored Cummins. Sold
ex 95 GV240 cat 3116. Sold
2017 Mini cooper s & 2016 land Rover LR2 HSE  LUX.
jhaygarth@aol.com    SKP #130098
treat everyone as you would like to be.

Re: Alternative Fluids ???

Reply #13 –
I think it would depend on the quality of the water as far as mineral  content if  it is safe.
Felix and Gail Mathieu
99 U320
Jeep Liberty CRD
Build number 5522

Re: Alternative Fluids ???

Reply #14 –
Kent,
The Detroit Diesel 2 stroke engines do not require the ELC, just plain green antifreeze and tap water is in 99.99% of them. Change it every few years and relax.
If I had a need to worry, I would zero in on the Allison fluid.  Know you requested the TranSynd but got the Mobile Delvac, I do not know the difference, but sure would dig into that one. I see the TranSynd as the required and the Mobile Delvac as an emergency fill.
JMO
Dave M

Re: Alternative Fluids ???

Reply #15 –
Kent,

The biggest difference with regular low silicate for diesel coolant vs ELC is that you will need to continue to monitor and add SCA throughout its shorter life (3 years vs 6 years for ELC).  And, no engine requires ELC-- it is just a big improvement over the standard coolant, both in terms of being maintenance free and twice the life.

Can't comment on tap water, as it does depend on the mineral content of the water. Suspect most shops use tap water. Is distilled water better?  Almost certainly.  But it would probably mean that you would have to swing by Walmart to buy it before taking the coach to a place to change it.  One of those "best practices" vs "what may work OK".

Brett
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Alternative Fluids ???

Reply #16 –
Thanks guys. Those are the comments I was looking for.

John, I'm getting the feeling that this is the norm but I don't think it is the best water to use, especially for OAT coolant. I know over 45 years of driving, I never have used distilled water in a cooling system. Of course I never thought I would pay $2.00 for a bottle of water.
 
Felix, the water quality is from a major metro water system so it should be pretty average.

Dave, from the research I have done on the net, the Delvac is the chemical equivalent of Transynd. It is even sold by some Detroit shops rather than Transynd but thanks for the input. I know you have lots of experience.

Brett, thanks for your thoughts. I think I will not worry about it for three more years. I will periodically check the SCA with the Detroit strips however.
The selected media item is not currently available.Kent Speers
Locust Grove, OK
1993 U300 SSE 40' (Restored at FOT 2009) Build 4323
720 watts Solar
6V92TA DDEC Silver Engine
2014 Subaru Outback

Re: Alternative Fluids ???

Reply #17 –
As long as "all is well" is the consensus here, the only thing I would tell the manager of the shop in Olathe is,"Thanks, dummy ... you left money on the table by not following my instructions on the fluids I wanted to use."  That should get their attention more than any complaining.  When we stopped into the Cummins shop in Denver for our oil change, we were very specific about what we did and did NOT want done ... DON'T touch the brakes, do this, do that, DON'T do this, etc.  The mechanic went over each item that was a bit of a deviation from their normal procedure before he pulled us into the bay.  I surely appreciated that, and we made sure to tell them so.  when you requested certain fluids, and they did something different, it should have been discussed with you before they cracked open a bottle of stuff and started pouring it in.  Just saying'. 
Carol & Jeff Savournin
Usta have a '93 U225 36', Usta have a '95 U320 40', Usta have a '02 U320 40'
Usta have a 2006 Born Free, Usta have a 2011 Phoenix Cruiser
Usta have a 2012 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited 4dr
"Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life."  Steve Jobs
 

Re: Alternative Fluids ???

Reply #18 –
I have many years in the chemical field and have learned the hard way that using tap water in radiators is not a good thing.  The calcium content will build up on the radiator tubes and will cost you either a new radiator or an expensive rodding. If I cann't put the water in my battery I won't put it in my radiator.