Toad Braking & Retarders

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Toad Braking & Retarders

July 04, 2012, 12:52:30 pm

Just wondering about toad supplemental braking systems. We had a supplemental system on a toad a few years ago and it worked in conjunction with the RV's brakes. But what about with a retarder? How does that work. e.g. Most of the time I don't apply the service brakes on downhills, just use the retarder and gearing. What would activate the toad brakes?
jor

Re: Toad Braking & Retarders

Reply #1 – July 04, 2012, 12:58:39 pm

Don't believe the braking system works with the retarder. At least the warning lite does not lite up as it does when I use the brakes. That was one of the reasons I didn't use the retarder when I lost our hitch the other day. Slowly put pressure on brakes and tow vehicle slowly came to the motor home. Don't want to think what would have happened if I had use the retarder heavily.

Re: Toad Braking & Retarders

Reply #2 – July 04, 2012, 01:14:59 pm

Jor,

It's likely that the toad brakes would not be activated unless you apply the service brake. It would depend on the way the brakes are set up. The brakes on our toad are not proportional. They only operate in case of relatively hard braking from the the service brakes on the coach. We normally have the retarder turned on so it activates with the service brakes.

I prefer that the toad brakes not operate with the retarder if the service brakes are not engaged. We used the retarder/transmission/engine to control speed on long descents. I don't want any disk or drum brakes engaged for long periods of time on a downhill run. They will overheat and can suffer damage.

Re: Toad Braking & Retarders

Reply #3 – July 04, 2012, 01:21:21 pm

If you had a Readybrake RV Tow Bars and RV Surge Braking Systems for Car Towing - NSA RV, it would work when ever you are stopping or applying brakes. It is independent of your coach brakes and required no electrical hookup. It is a mechanical surge brake, no complicated wiring or calibration required. There is a video of how it works on their site.

Re: Toad Braking & Retarders

Reply #4 – July 04, 2012, 01:26:33 pm

Completely depends on which supplemental brake you have.

Some are activated by sensing deceleration, some by electric signal from brake circuit, some by air into the brake system. And, if the toad brake is electrically activated, depending on where the coach retarder activates the brake lights AND whether the toad brake electrical signal is picked up at the coach brake pedal or at the brake lights...

And, my favorite would be a supplemental brake that does NOT activate with a retarder or exhaust brake. Any time you really need to stop, you are going to be on the brake pedal. If the retarder will keep your speed in check/slow you down at an appropriate rate, why wear out either coach or toad brakes?

Brett

Re: Toad Braking & Retarders

Reply #5 – July 04, 2012, 04:29:52 pm

Thanks to all. That's what I suspected. With the exception of the breakaway protection I don't see much advantage to a toad brake system with a moderate weight toad, 3,400# in our case.

Good call, Jeff! A few years ago we were flying along fat, dumb and happy. Heard a weird singing noise and thought, "what the..." then I glanced in the side mirror and saw lots of smoke. I thought the toad was on fire. Turned out to be a blowout on the toad which trashed two tires, some trim and one wheel. Left a really long scar on the highway.

Everybody, have a good 4th.
jor

Re: Toad Braking & Retarders

Reply #6 – July 04, 2012, 05:12:59 pm

Yup, two primary reasons for toad brakes: State legal requirements and panic stops.

But, those are reason enough!

Brett

Re: Toad Braking & Retarders

Reply #7 – July 04, 2012, 05:43:46 pm

Our first tow car was much lighter ... a little Jeep Sport Utility. But the information that more and more states require extra braking systems for anything being towed that exceeds 3000 pounds (if I remember correctly) is the reason that we decided to go ahead and add that item to our total package. We watched a guy trying to position a Brake Buddy in his tow car for about 20 minutes one day (in the parking lot at Camp Foretravel) before finally giving up and throwing it in the back seat, getting in his motor home and driving away. When we stopped laughing, we started looking at the Air Force 1 units.

Re: Toad Braking & Retarders

Reply #8 – July 04, 2012, 06:41:45 pm

Quote

We watched a guy trying to position a Brake Buddy in his tow car for about 20 minutes one day (in the parking lot at Camp Foretravel) before finally giving up and throwing it in the back seat, getting in his motor home and driving away. When we stopped laughing, we started looking at the Air Force 1 units.

That's why we like the US Gear braking system, a bit pricey but you plug in the electrical thingy and everything is ready to go.

Roland

Re: Toad Braking & Retarders

Reply #9 – July 04, 2012, 06:52:32 pm

It is interesting to read all of these tow brake requirements. I can pick up my jeep and put it in the coach and still have 3K pounds carry capacity. In Virginia there is a performance requirement. In most states there is not a tow brake requirement either. It is not because of motorhomes but rather because of tow trucks. They tow cars all the time and they are smaller and do not have tow brakes on the towed vehicle. That is why most states do not require them. The definition of a trailer needs it but if ithe trailer has an engine and a can operate on its own then most states do not really require them. That said they will help you stop in a panic situation but I have seen way too many people have huge issues. There was one FT owner who pulled into MOT with a new Air Force Brake system on his jeep. The jeep needed new brakes and rotors and had other issues and if they had driven further than the 50 miles or so they would have had a fire. I was there when they came in and talked to them. In Air Force One defense they did fix the brakes for the guy and came out to look it over too. I had another friend who has a FT who was coming to a rally and his tow car caught on fire.
I do not use them and do not need them in the state of VA. Also you must be legal in your state and the rest will follow those rules. I had a thick book in my cruiser with the various state requirements. I also used to do inspection as a LEO in Ohio as well.

Re: Toad Braking & Retarders

Reply #10 – July 04, 2012, 07:07:07 pm

Quote from: Roland Begin – July 04, 2012, 06:41:45 pm

That's why we like the US Gear braking system, a bit pricey but you plug in the electrical thingy and everything is ready to go.

+1. It's also a little more involved of an installation and controller placement, but has worked great for us for 2 coaches over 12 years including a couple of panic stops. One of its features is a thumb lever that allows you to apply just the toad brakes if needed.

Michelle

Re: Toad Braking & Retarders

Reply #11 – July 04, 2012, 07:26:28 pm

This is another case of we get used to what ever we like. I like the Air Force setup for the Ford pickup (SO FAR), approx. 4500 lb with the ATV on brd. The only time I could detect it braking was driving thru Choo Choo city, Tn seems they always have construction and wrecks. During the slow stop & go, I could detect the brake on the p/u picking up slightly, I would be happier if it could be turned down a notch or so. I need to snoop it out further I see.
Happy 4th ya'll
Dave M

Re: Toad Braking & Retarders

Reply #12 – July 04, 2012, 07:35:59 pm

John, Thank you for giving information from the horses mouth as it were as a LEO. I have long contended that a towed car is not a trailer and thus does not require the same equipment.
I tow either a Saturn or a Small Nissan Pickup and I have never felt the need to have auxiliary brakes. After a lifetime of working in the insurance industry I am well aware of the liability issues. I hear of cases where someone was found liable for something or other but it always seems that it happened to a friend of a friend and there is no documentation..
JMHO
Gary B

Re: Toad Braking & Retarders

Reply #13 – July 04, 2012, 07:36:22 pm

When we wired our new Jeep for towing, we added a separate Jeep brake pedal switch that is wired to a motorhome dash LED that turns on whenever the Jeep's brake pedal is being pressed.

This LED is not connected to our tow brake or Jeep brake wiring, and is an independent mechanical indicator letting us know the Jeep's brake pedal is not fully up or 'off'.

This is a great monitor to insure that nothing is causing our Jeep brakes to drag while the car is being towed down the road.

Roadmaster sells switch and mounting brackets for many tow cars.
Roadmaster Inc. - Tow Bars, Braking Systems & RV Accessories

Re: Toad Braking & Retarders

Reply #14 – July 04, 2012, 09:10:47 pm

Gary the rules are not really for motorhomes but are written for all the tow trucks. In fact an emergency tow to remove a big truck from the road is allowed to go over weight limits too. Only till they remove the tow from the incident to the storage area. After that they have to comply but it is different in different states on that.

Re: Toad Braking & Retarders

Reply #15 – July 04, 2012, 11:23:16 pm

we have a Brake Buddy in our Wrangler to keep the lawyers at bay. I can put it in, or take it out in about 2 minutes.

Re: Toad Braking & Retarders

Reply #16 – July 05, 2012, 06:45:51 am

One small issue would also come up, people who write tickets do not always understand the fine line of the law, so will write a ticket for a non
issue due to their lack of knowing, but ass u me. You wind up with the ticket to fight. Same if you have the accident.
Good luck
Dave M

Re: Toad Braking & Retarders

Reply #17 – July 05, 2012, 02:31:04 pm

Dave you are right that you can be ticketed but you can fight it too. I do not worry about that. If it comes to be, I will hire one of the legal eagles and set them too it... Sometimes it is being vindicated that is fun....

Re: Toad Braking & Retarders

Reply #18 – July 05, 2012, 04:24:00 pm

I put in the M&G brake system. I love it.
To connect it I jack in the air line, I hook the stainless wire connection to the emergency disconnect and I'm done. Total time probably less than 30 seconds.

I may/or may not need the extra braking. (I'll take it)
I may/or may not drive in places that require it. (I don't know nor care)

I do know that I have reduced the number of things I have to worry about and that is a good thing.

Re: Toad Braking & Retarders

Reply #19 – July 05, 2012, 05:44:21 pm

We have had the Ready Brute tow bar with the cable operated surge brake for 3 years and over 30,000 miles. Very ez to hook up and it works with or without the retarder. Gam

Re: Toad Braking & Retarders

Reply #20 – July 05, 2012, 08:12:41 pm

Quote from: gam – July 05, 2012, 05:44:21 pm

We have had the Ready Brute tow bar with the cable operated surge brake for 3 years and over 30,000 miles. Very ez to hook up and it works with or without the retarder. Gam

We have the Ready-Brute with surge brake as well. A simple effective system that works well under all conditions. We like it very much.

D&D

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