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Working in the Water System Bay

It looks like I have to do a little work with the water system and I would to do a little advanced recon.

So far I have no pump issues but it looks like I have a failed accumlator tank. The pump tuns on immediately when I open a faucet and water squirts out when I depress the tank's air valve.

1) At the front of the bay are lines for dumping Main, Hot, and Cold water, each of which have an in-line ball valve.
    Even if I take the handle off the valve it doesn't look like there are the 8+ inches needed to extract the old and
    insert the new tank.
Question: do I start cutting out the old lines? I assume I will at least have to disassemble the line going to the far side of the tank and move at least one of the valves.

2) The water lines are gray plastic. Are they the type alluded to in other posts that get dissolved from the inside?(see pic below for identification).

3) I havn't worked with PEX before. I assume there are fittings which would allow me to attach hose barbs for flexible water lines (at least for the cold water).

Thanks in advance for thoughts and a suggested plan of attack.

elliott bray
Elliott & Mary Bray
ex. 1996 36' U295 - Build 4879
ex. 2018 Coachmen Leprechaun 319MB
 

Re: Working in the Water System Bay

Reply #1 –
Elliott, the tank will slide out after the handles are removed,remove the pex fitting from the tank before you loosen the tank from the saddle,for fittings to work on pex,go to Sea Tech, Inc - Leading Manufacturer of Quick Connect Fittings, Quick Connect use only the series 35.
The selected media item is not currently available.Bill&Doris 97 U270 36'
University of Parris Island Class of 66
Semper Fi  Build# 5174 MC#17094

Re: Working in the Water System Bay

Reply #2 –
Elliott,  I would be very surprised if you had to cut any lines to get the tank out.  Foretravel just doesn't design stuff like that. (but never say never right?)

Quote
The water lines are gray plastic. Are they the type alluded to in other posts that get dissolved from the inside?(see pic below for identification).
I have the same lines in my coach and I haven't heard about any dissolving problems with them.  I've had my coach for 10 years now and the lines seem as good as they did 10 years ago.

Quote
assume there are fittings which would allow me to attach hose barbs for flexible water lines (at least for the cold water).
I've used push-in brass "Shark Bite" fittings (from Home Depot) with success and well as just brass hose barb fittings with a hose clamp. 

If you don't like the location of the tank you can put it anywhere else in the cold water circuit. If you replace the pump with a variable speed you can do away with the tank all together as many people have done.  I did this about 6 years ago but have since added back the tank (locating it under the kitchen sink on a flexible hose) because I found the water heater needed the expansion capacity.  Without it the pressure/temperature relief valve on the water heater would seep.  It appears most people don't have this problem and it might be because I live in a colder climate where the incoming water is very cold and the water temperature rise is much higher.

I suggest trying to minimize the amount of water that leaks into the bay by using a lot of towels.  You want to keep water out of the seams with walls where it can get to the steel. When new the caulking protected it but in older coaches the caulking is cracked and it's impossible re-caulk back where the tanks are.  If enough water spills out while working it will get back there.  It's a water bay and in the course of it's life water will get it there but you always want to limit it's exposure.
John Fitzgerald
1991 U300 (SAI) Side Aisle Island Bed 40'
Detroit 6V92 with Allison Retarder
Meridian (Boise), Idaho

Re: Working in the Water System Bay

Reply #3 –
As I understand, the accumulator tank should have an air pocket inside.  The air valve is to pressure the tank, and the water pump is to build pressure against the air in the tank.  Some where should be the info as to how much pre-load pressure should be on the tank.  Then the pump fights that, and should stop pumping at it's high limit switch setting, and when you open the faucet you get water for a while, "pushed" out by the tank's trapped and compressed air.

You might not have any problem other than no pre-charge of air in the tank. Saying you are getting water out of the air valve seems to indicate too little pre-charge of air.  If your tank had a bladder and it has failed, then you might need a new tank.

From another site, info about the same looking tank as yours.   
Jabsco Accumulator Tank
2 Gallon Tank Pre-Pressurized to 20 PSI
Dimensions: 8" Diameter. x 12-5/8" High
Smooth flow from faucets and showers


The Sureflow site shows the their tank is pressurized at 20# as well.
Dave Cobb
Buckhorn Lake Resort The Club, #6202, Kerrville TX
check the map.  I do rent it out when I am traveling!
2001, U320, 36' #5887, in Kerrville, FT Club #17006, (7/23 to present)
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L, Summit, white
EX: 98 U295, 36' #5219, (mid door), (4/13-10/23)
EX: 93 U225, 36' (4/11 to 4/13)

Re: Working in the Water System Bay

Reply #4 –
If you get water from the valve where you charge the tank, the bladder is ruptured and it is time to discard the tank.

According to instructions I have read, charge should equal the "turn on" pressure of your pump. Some folk recommend charging to 2 psi below the "turn on" pressure. The object is to allow the accumulator to supply water under pressure until it empties. The pump should come on just as the accumulator provides the last of its water reserve. The pump will run until it reaches "turn off" pressure. It will build pressure and a water reserve in the accumulator. The accumulator cuts down the number of on/off cycles for the pump. It can also provide a bid of cushion for thermal changes in the water system.

This description is my understanding of how the accumulator and pump work in my coach. Systems with variable speed pumps or other "new fangled" stuff may work differently.
J D Stevens
1997 U295 CAI 36' Build #5085
2002 Subaru Outback
Motorcade 16869
Bellville, TX

Re: Working in the Water System Bay

Reply #5 –
Quote from: J. D. Stevens –
If you get water from the valve where you charge the tank, the bladder is ruptured and it is time to discard the tank.

JD is right... but there may not be an actual requirement for a bladder. You can drain the tank, give it a pre-charge, and then turn on the pump. The air won't mix with the water and should provide enough pressure to keep the pump from cycling a lot. Then you can buy a tank (if you need one) at your leisure. :)

Craig
1993 U225 36' Unihome GV with PACBRAKE exhaust retarder, Banks Stinger and Solar Panels.
Toad: 1999 Jeep Wrangler 2-door soft-top.

"No one has ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke."

Re: Working in the Water System Bay

Reply #6 –
Quote from: wa_desert_rat –
JD is right... but there may not be an actual requirement for a bladder. You can drain the tank, give it a pre-charge, and then turn on the pump. The air won't mix with the water and should provide enough pressure to keep the pump from cycling a lot. Then you can buy a tank (if you need one) at your leisure. :)

Craig
Seems to me that charging an accumulator with a ruptured bladder would not be worth the effort. The bladder would exhaust it's charge if water left the system without pressure from a pump or shore water. It might provide a bit of "cushion" from trapped air if the water inlet is lower than an air pocket.

Indeed, you can replace the tank at your leisure. The pump will cycle more often, but the water system should work. I would expect that a failed bladder in a steel tank might allow some rust to get into the fresh water system.
J D Stevens
1997 U295 CAI 36' Build #5085
2002 Subaru Outback
Motorcade 16869
Bellville, TX

Re: Working in the Water System Bay

Reply #7 –
Quote from: TheBrays –
It looks like I have to do a little work with the water system and I would to do a little advanced recon.

So far I have no pump issues but it looks like I have a failed accumlator tank. The pump tuns on immediately when I open a faucet and water squirts out when I depress the tank's air valve.

1) At the front of the bay are lines for dumping Main, Hot, and Cold water, each of which have an in-line ball valve.
    Even if I take the handle off the valve it doesn't look like there are the 8+ inches needed to extract the old and
    insert the new tank.
Question: do I start cutting out the old lines? I assume I will at least have to disassemble the line going to the far side of the tank and move at least one of the valves.

2) The water lines are gray plastic. Are they the type alluded to in other posts that get dissolved from the inside?(see pic below for identification).

3) I havn't worked with PEX before. I assume there are fittings which would allow me to attach hose barbs for flexible water lines (at least for the cold water).

Thanks in advance for thoughts and a suggested plan of attack.

elliott bray


All of the water connections to the tank should have those grey PEX thumb nuts to allow removal without cutting any lines.  I would be very surprised if FT didn't install it that way.  Have you investigated accumulator tank connections with a mirror?
On ours, the pump and accumulator tank were mounted as a unit and removed as a unit, but looks like yours is attached separately to the wall?
Dave and Nancy
1999/2013 U270 36' Xtreme
Motorcade # 16774
2013 Subaru Outback
KD0NIM

Re: Working in the Water System Bay

Reply #8 –
Well, it looks like I'll be working in here sooner rather than later. The waterpump head looks like it is corroding and beginning to weep. I suspect the comment re: internal rust is also becoming evident. >:(

Question:
  1) I assume I have to drain the tank and lines to replace both the tank and the pump.  Is there a simpler way?

  2) Do you know if the present wiring is robust enought to allow direct replacement of the existing Sur-flo 2088-403144 with a Aquajet RV pump?
I will get the book out but possibly those who have made this transition already know.

I would like for the system to survive till Oct. but I may have to do something sooner.

TIA
Elliott & Mary Bray
ex. 1996 36' U295 - Build 4879
ex. 2018 Coachmen Leprechaun 319MB
 

Re: Working in the Water System Bay

Reply #9 –
Quote
  2) Do you know if the present wiring is robust enought to allow direct replacement of the existing Sur-flo 2088-403144 with a Aquajet RV pump?
I will get the book out but possibly those who have made this transition already know.
Elliot, I replaced my pump with the Aquajet 5.3. The stock wiring is fine but the latching relay for the water pump switches won't hold up with the 10 amp draw of the Aquajet. I think ours lasted a couple of months and then burned out. You can order a newer model latching relay fom Foretravel for less than $40. Also, I heard from DaveK that you can use a VW headlight relay instead. Anyhow, if you go with the Aquajet be sure and change out that latching relay at the same time.
jor
93 225
95 300
97 270
99 320

Re: Working in the Water System Bay

Reply #10 –
I removed the accumulator tank in my 1996 because it was a rusty mess and I plugged the line using a brass plug and a hose clamp.

I also replaced the water pump with a computer controlled variable speed pump.

The diaphram in my accumulator had a hole in it, like yours, however it is possible to recharge it because the air will stay at the top of the tank.

Do the following:
Turn the water pump off and open a cold tap to let pressure escape. With tap open, fill the accumulator with air until air comes out the open tap. Turn tap off and turn on water pump. Now wrap open end of faucet with a rag to keep water from flying all over and open the same tap to let excess air escape.

You may have to repeat this process every couple months and you may see rust in your water.
Wyatt
96 U320 40 WTFE, build 4943
84 Toyota Supra towd
2015 Jeep Wrangler towd
Victoria, BC, Canada

Re: Working in the Water System Bay

Reply #11 –
I replaced a Shur-Flo with Aquajet ES. I made no changes in the wiring system, and all has worked fine and served our purposes. Instructions indicate that the Aquajet RV will require heavier wiring. My recollection is that the ES draws about 6A and the RV draws about 10A. We depend on the Aquajet for ALL water pressure in the coach and have been satisfied with the output of the ES. I left the accumulator in place and will probably replace it when it fails.

I did not drain the fresh water tank. In changing the lines, I didn't spill much water. Draining the fresh water tank would make for a drier, more leisurely change. I recommend draining the fresh water.

I did add the "soft loop" water lines to the installation. It makes pump placement and hookup easier. I also had to replace one fitting on the original plumbing. The gasket was bad. It was easier to replace the connecter with a new Watts "push on" fitting than find an appropriate gasket. Replacing a fitting is very easy if you have the proper tubing cutter and a proper replacement fitting. Both were available at a local hardware store in our small home town.
J D Stevens
1997 U295 CAI 36' Build #5085
2002 Subaru Outback
Motorcade 16869
Bellville, TX

Re: Working in the Water System Bay

Reply #12 –

If the fresh water tank has to be drained to replace a water pump, install a ball valve on the hose from water tank to water pump, so next time pump can be removed without draining tank.

Probably your original Foretravel water pump latching relay is the 10-amp VW relay mentioned by Dave-K and will be just fine and looks like the following links.

Foretravel also used the same relay for water fill solenoid. Later model coaches used a different style electronic latching relay that was rated at less than 10-amps.

Amazon.com: Standard Motor Products Relay: Automotive

http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/x,catalog,154,partnum, LR35,d,STANDARD_MOTOR_PR ODUCTS_LR35.html

More Information for STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS LR35
check weird mounting by clicking 'next image'

FYI, our Shurflo 4048 is working great for all of our water needs.

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.
 

Re: Working in the Water System Bay

Reply #13 –
Hi, I replaced my accumulator tank with one from Lowes. Same size, hook-ups was only $33.
Jeff and Victoria Moses
1990 U300 40'