New Owner needs some help, 1995 u300 Starting Batteries

Topic: New Owner needs some help, 1995 u300 Starting Batteries (Read 1212 times) previous topic - next topic

New Owner needs some help, 1995 u300 Starting Batteries

December 17, 2012, 06:47:04 pm

Hello All.
We are new 1995 Foretravel U300 owners..just bought the coach and am overwhlemed with it all. I would like to ask a question regarding Chassis batteries. When i bought the coach the owner said it had 3 Optima batteries, now that it was delivered to California it had one battery, I asked the driver and he said "He had trouble with the Optima and installed this single battery @ 1000 CCA.
1) Should i stay with this battery, seems to start ok in 60 degree weather?
2) Should i convert back to 3 Optimas?
3 If Optima, what group should they be and can someone supply a clear photo of the batteries installed in the coach with the proper cabling.

Thanks All for any help you can give, and hope to see some of you on the road

Hans & Marjet

Re: New Owner needs some help, 1995 u300 Starting Batteries

Reply #1 – December 17, 2012, 07:12:37 pm

Optima Group 34 x3.

Re: New Owner needs some help, 1995 u300 Starting Batteries

Reply #2 – December 17, 2012, 07:58:43 pm

You didn't say but my 93, U300 has a Detroit 6V92 Silver engine. It uses 3, Optima Red Top starting batteries, as Peter says I too think they are Group 34. If your deliver guy discarded three Optima Red Top starting batteries without permission then I think he owes you about $600. If the previous owner approved their removal then he owes you about $600.

If your new coach has the Detroit 350hp 6V92 like our 93, U300, you will probably need three batteries to get it started if the temperature is around freezing or lower. In warmer weather the single battery may suffice but my engine is pretty cold blooded, even with the engine heater.

If you too have the 6V92, the other two very important things to know is don't let the engine heat exceed 210 degrees for any length of time and use only Delo 100 straight 40W, not Delo 400, 40W. These seem to be the only criteria for long term performance of the 6V92.

I have two 8D Lifeline Gel batteries for my house batteries. They are vintage 10/2004 and still working great. My Optima Red Tops starting batteries are 10/2004 Vintage and I never need to use the boost switch to start my coach. However, my coach does have a newer engine alternator (2009), a Hehr 190 amp alternator with an external adjustable voltage regulator.

My bet is you have a great coach with lots of wonderful motorhoming times ahead of you. Welcome aboard.

Re: New Owner needs some help, 1995 u300 Starting Batteries

Reply #3 – December 17, 2012, 08:35:03 pm

Went to Autozone when we picked up our U300 three years ago in North Carolina. Just bought 3 garden variety 27 series Duralast batteries. Can't go wrong for less than $100 each plus they are made by Johnson Controls. Have found that they usually make it to the end of warranty and easily replaced under warranty in most towns across the U.S.

I NEVER use the boost switch. The three Duralasts spin the DD like a top even in sub freezing temps (teens).

In the fire service, we found that one 8D did not work well so we had to turn the battery switch to "both" when we started our 8V-71s. They did have a little higher compression ratio that the 6V-92TAs.

Before you spend the $$$$ for any Optima product, read the latest battery forum posts on the quality control issues.

Should a single battery fail a few years down the road, it's less than $300 to replace all three.

Glad to send a photo of our 3 starting batteries between the rear bumper and the crank pulley.

Battery cables and connections are very important in getting any large displacement diesel to start in bad conditions. Don't overlook them.

Pierce

Re: New Owner needs some help, 1995 u300 Starting Batteries

Reply #4 – December 17, 2012, 09:06:19 pm

Should have added that 60 degree temperatures are a LOT different than the teens, especially if the diesel does not have glow plugs (like ours). The 6V-92TA has the block heater located in a poor, inefficient location so you will need to see if it is working and then use the block heater for a couple of hours if in really cold conditions. Long cranking time can result in melted battery post connectors in cold weather.

The block heater plugs into an outlet under the bed on the driver's side with the switch also on the driver's side on the outside of the bed. Use a multimeter for resistance, a wattage meter or watch the voltmeter above the entry when someone switches it on to see if it's OK. The hand on the meter will move slightly when the switch is moved if the heater is working.

New block heaters are about $30 on ebay if you look around. CATs use the same model/part number.

Pierce

Re: New Owner needs some help, 1995 u300 Starting Batteries

Reply #5 – December 17, 2012, 10:06:49 pm

Thank You all for the responses..Our coach has a 3176 Cat with Allison 6 spd. Can anyone provide a photo of the battery layout, especially the cable connections.

Thanks , Hans

Re: New Owner needs some help, 1995 u300 Starting Batteries

Reply #6 – December 17, 2012, 10:36:12 pm

Hans,

U300 with 3 starting battery layout. I added the extra ground cable.

Pierce

Re: New Owner needs some help, 1995 u300 Starting Batteries

Reply #7 – December 17, 2012, 11:21:49 pm

Pierce..
Thank you so much....All i need to do now is find the cables etc..

Re: New Owner needs some help, 1995 u300 Starting Batteries

Reply #8 – December 17, 2012, 11:41:11 pm

Hans,

I acquired the same year and model Coach (also with the CAT 3176) as yours two months ago. I went with three 850 CCA AGM batteries for the chassis set. I also went with AGM 8D's for the house pair. The chassis batteries have a 5 year 100% replacement warranty. I bought all of these at a Batteries Plus store, a company with a nationwide presence -- in case I need it.

Where in California are you? -- my Coach is presently in Ventura County. I'm presently bringing it back to life, taking it slow (it is winter - after all), but making great progress. Next is the main fuel-line from the tank to the pre-filter. Check your fuel lines for cracking and kinks at the bends, and especially the one from the pre-filter to the lifting pump on the CAT.

Regards,

Michael

Re: New Owner needs some help, 1995 u300 Starting Batteries

Reply #9 – December 18, 2012, 12:38:06 am

Pierce,
Were you able to use the OEM battery cables with the autozone batterys? In others words did the optima cables fit the group 27 batteries or did you have to make new cables?

Re: New Owner needs some help, 1995 u300 Starting Batteries

Reply #10 – December 18, 2012, 11:06:53 am

All stock cables with one additional cable that I ran to ground several inches away. I did flatten all cable ends and replace all the post terminals. I bought all stainless steel bolts, washers, nylocks. This only added about $25 to the total. Attached are photos. You need a fairly coarse file and about 15 minutes of elbow grease.

Don't hesitate to ask where or what switches, outlets, etc. do. I am still making new discoveries.

Pierce

Re: New Owner needs some help, 1995 u300 Starting Batteries

Reply #11 – December 20, 2012, 10:35:01 am

Hi Pierce,
When I bought my coach this summer it only had 1 8D chassis battery, and it turns much slower than I prefer. While it has about 1380 CCA's I still think 3 would spin it faster. I want to take it back to 3 batteries like your setup. Where can I have the 3 connector cable made ( or purchase pre made) for this unit.
Thanks,
Jerry
1999 u270 WTFI 8.3 Cummins

Re: New Owner needs some help, 1995 u300 Starting Batteries

Reply #12 – December 20, 2012, 10:51:24 am

Most good truck parts stores will make up custom cables for you. But be very careful measuring the runs.

Re: New Owner needs some help, 1995 u300 Starting Batteries

Reply #13 – December 20, 2012, 10:58:15 am

Use military type connectors, then you can use cables with flat ends that are much easier to route that those with clamp type ends on them. Even if the cable is a little longer or shorter you can arch or dearch it to fit. Then future battery changes you will more choices.
Gary B
4/0 Ga. Negative Military Battery Terminals

Re: New Owner needs some help, 1995 u300 Starting Batteries

Reply #14 – December 20, 2012, 11:34:36 am

Jerry,

A motor-electric shop would be the first place I would try. That failing, I would call the NAPA shop or a specialized truck battery shop. If you are having one made, I would go through the last post on the battery and have a lug on a 1 inch or so cable so you could avoid the piggy back lead adapters like the one shown in my photo. I melted one of those with a 15 degree start in Yellowstone a couple of years ago. My block heater had just failed so had to start it without warming the Detroit. I would also have an extra ground cable made to go to ground on the steel part of the rear bumper a foot or two away.

You engine is slightly smaller than mine, 8.3 vs 9.0 liters, so a three battery setup should give you plenty of cranking power. The only thing to be cautious about is the long steel strap used to hold the batteries down. Fine as long as you don't drop a wrench from a positive terminal that bridges the two. Could slide a vinyl cover over it when the batteries are installed.

Another thing to check is your 8D voltage now. Measure static and then while cranking the engine. Slow cranking could also mean a poor ground, poor lug to cable connection, corrosion at connections, bad cell, etc. If you have caps, stick a hydrometer in each cell. After a slow crank, you can also put you hand on all connections to see if any are warm. A battery that is starting to fail may also trick the alternator/regulator with incorrect resistance so the alternator changes with too high or too low voltages and can cook/damage the battery. Don't believe the voltage you see on the instrument panel. With a digital voltmeter, measure at the battery (not the isolator) what your voltages are, both static and with the engine running. Several good posts in our forum archives.

After installing new batteries, check voltages the same way just to make sure your charging system is working properly. When the batteries have a few years on them, pull the cables off (isolate) each battery when making a static voltage check.

And last, if storing for the winter, disconnect the batteries at the battery if you can't keep a trickle charge to them. Flat batteries sulfate quickly and are are susceptible to freezing in low temps.

Attached is a photo of the $8 digital voltmeters I installed using the old Audit wiring. Top is house, bottom is start/engine. Cheap insurance.

Pierce

Re: New Owner needs some help, 1995 u300 Starting Batteries

Reply #15 – December 20, 2012, 12:36:40 pm

Gary

Thanks for the link. I will be needing terminals and a crimp tool when I modify my battery hookup to install my trimetric meter. Plan on installing a phenolic terminal board and covering it to keep the road crap off the terminals and shunt. Also my battery cable connections need to also be redone, they be really crappy. Was wondering where I would pick up the lugs and crimp tool, I don't have anything to crimp the big stuff. Not sure how all this is going to work out, but I will take B4 and after photos. Future plans are to replace the 8D's with 6 Volt AGM's so the hookup needs to be "flexible".

Roland

Re: New Owner needs some help, 1995 u300 Starting Batteries

Reply #16 – December 20, 2012, 12:49:19 pm

Roland, If you have unlimited funds ( don't we all ) go for BRASS terminals, not so prone to corrosion and better contact with posts and cables.
Gary B

Re: New Owner needs some help, 1995 u300 Starting Batteries

Reply #17 – December 20, 2012, 01:11:16 pm

If I needed new cables,I would go to a good welding supply house and have them made.

Re: New Owner needs some help, 1995 u300 Starting Batteries

Reply #18 – December 20, 2012, 02:55:56 pm

Quote from: Bill Willett – December 20, 2012, 01:11:16 pm

If I needed new cables,I would go to a good welding supply house and have them made.

Bill has an excellent point. That is what I used for the extra ground cable plus the welding supply shops have all the lugs if you want to DIY. Welding cables have many times the number of copper strands than regular battery cables and because of that, are much more flexible. On the other hand, you may have to support longer runs as they will sag and move around more, a result of their extreme flexibility.

Pierce

Re: New Owner needs some help, 1995 u300 Starting Batteries

Reply #19 – December 20, 2012, 09:03:00 pm

Quote from: Roland Begin – December 20, 2012, 12:36:40 pm

Gary

Thanks for the link. I will be needing terminals and a crimp tool when I modify my battery hookup to install my trimetric meter. Plan on installing a phenolic terminal board and covering it to keep the road crap off the terminals and shunt. Also my battery cable connections need to also be redone, they be really crappy. Was wondering where I would pick up the lugs and crimp tool, I don't have anything to crimp the big stuff. Not sure how all this is going to work out, but I will take B4 and after photos. Future plans are to replace the 8D's with 6 Volt AGM's so the hookup needs to be "flexible".

Roland

Roland,
see

Quote from: TheBrays – July 10, 2012, 12:34:12 pm

I will admit I havn't learned all the tricks so I get enthused when I learn a new one (old dogs and ,,, )

The proper way to solder battery terminals

I have crimped then, looked at fancy tools to use, tried to get enough heat to solder, etc.
This looks like the simplest (if you can make up in the shop rather than a small cramped cubbyhole).

HTH

for a way to make battery terminations without a crimping tool.

HTH

Re: New Owner needs some help, 1995 u300 Starting Batteries

Reply #20 – December 20, 2012, 10:53:19 pm

Quote from: TheBrays – December 20, 2012, 09:03:00 pm

Roland,
see for a way to make battery terminations without a crimping tool.

HTH

I prefer to go with a crimp rather than a soldered connection simply because I can crimp in a confined space which is where I need to make most of the connections. I could have some cables made up but some of the rerouting necessitates making up cables while under the coach. There are some repairs/modifications that I can and prefer to do myself. In the past I have had cables made up because I could not crimp the lugs properly. However in the past I also did not have a whole lot of 3 and 4 aught cables. The money I save by installing the terminal board, rerouting the cables and installing a protective cover over the whole mess will more than pay for the needed crimping tool. That is how I justify purchasing a high dollar crimping tool

. I've always thought that the money you can save by doing it yourself is well spent on purchasing the tool required to do the job....most of the time anyway.

Roland

Re: New Owner needs some help, 1995 u300 Starting Batteries

Reply #21 – December 21, 2012, 11:29:31 am

Thank You all for the great replies and then some....

I bought 3 new Optima's and installing them this weekend. I'm driving the coach across from California to SC on January 5th taking the low road. Enjoy the Holiday's All. !!

Hans

Affiliate Notice