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Topic: Bathroom GFI question (Read 829 times) previous topic - next topic

Bathroom GFI question

The bathroom GFI tripped the other day and wouldn't reset. Removed it to replace it and discovered that there wasn't a ground wire to the receptacle. Shouldn't there had been one?
The replacement clearly stated that you cannot reset it until the ground is connected.
Dick & Sue
'99 U320, 36'
2015 F150 4x4 Supercrew
M & G with brakeaway system
Blue Ox Avail 10,000# tow bar
Grosse Ile, Mi.

Re: Bathroom GFI question

Reply #1 –
GFI should work without a ground you may have something plugged in that is keeping it from resetting.
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Bobby & Norma
1992 GV U280
C8.3 Cummins

Re: Bathroom GFI question

Reply #2 –
GFCI only monitors black hot & white neutral. When electricity is not perfectly balanced, even for a moment, between the black & white, it quickly trips. GFCI safety logic does not use a green ground to work, but the outlet has a place for the ground. Missing ground wire does not prevent outlet from working, it just means that the outlet is missing a safety function.

For the GFCI to function the cable from the breaker box must go on the correct terminals, normally the terminals without a cover. The covered terminals are used to apply GFCI functions to a 2nd cable feeding other outlets.

Re: Bathroom GFI question

Reply #3 –
Yes,  as Bobby says it shouldn't need it.  I installed GFI's in older home that did have grounds in the wiring.
There might be something plugged in on the other outlets that are fed through the GFI that's tripping it.
John Fitzgerald
1991 U300 (SAI) Side Aisle Island Bed 40'
Detroit 6V92 with Allison Retarder
Meridian (Boise), Idaho

Re: Bathroom GFI question

Reply #4 –
Dick & sue,

I am an electrician and my experience with gfci's are that they are notorious for going bad for no reason. And yes, they do not need a ground. As a matter of fact, that's how you can convert a two prong house receptacle to a three prong.

Rob
1988 40ft grandvilla u300 6v92ta 4speed allison

Re: Bathroom GFI question

Reply #5 –
I am a Electrical Engineer from the automotive world and a Ham Radio operator.
We have had GF's go bad in our house. They just do that.

What I was surprised by is that the bathroom GFI didn't have a ground wire connected to the receptacle. It does now.

With out a ground, there is no GFI protection. If that was the intent, why put a GFI in the bathroom?
Just a side note, there wasn't anything plug in downstream in that circuit.

The replacement clearly stated that the new receptacle is "dead" and cannot reset until the ground is connected.
Dick & Sue
'99 U320, 36'
2015 F150 4x4 Supercrew
M & G with brakeaway system
Blue Ox Avail 10,000# tow bar
Grosse Ile, Mi.

Re: Bathroom GFI question

Reply #6 –
Paul,

Check out this link it explains why you don't need a equipment grd for a GFCI to work. My concern is why your cable did not have a ground wire in it. Wonder if the other ckts have a ground? Call me if you have any questions I have a masters electrical license in 3 states, Ok,Ar,Tx (512-753-9655).



Ground-Fault Circuit Interrupters (GFCIs):
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Bobby & Norma
1992 GV U280
C8.3 Cummins

Re: Bathroom GFI question

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Dick & Sue –
I am a Electrical Engineer from the automotive world and a Ham Radio operator.
We have had GF's go bad in our house. They just do that.

What I was surprised by is that the bathroom GFI didn't have a ground wire connected to the receptacle. It does now.

With out a ground, there is no GFI protection. If that was the intent, why put a GFI in the bathroom?
Just a side note, there wasn't anything plug in downstream in that circuit.

The replacement clearly stated that the new receptacle is "dead" and cannot reset until the ground is connected.

I don't want to argue with an engineer, because that's all I do at work but the ground wire has nothing to do with the operation of a GFCI. If you have it tied in, that is great, but it will work either way.
1988 40ft grandvilla u300 6v92ta 4speed allison

Re: Bathroom GFI question

Reply #8 –
The GFCI senses an imbalance in local current flow from hot to neutral, so if you happen to touch your finger to the hot lead downstream from the GFCI, it senses that there is more local current flowing from the hot side than is going back into the local neutral and shuts down.  The confusion about grounding is perhaps because the usual way that more current flows from the hot side is through a path back to the house ground (or remote neutral bus in the service box), even if it isn't locally connected to the GFCI.
Dave and Nancy
1999/2013 U270 36' Xtreme
Motorcade # 16774
2013 Subaru Outback
KD0NIM

Re: Bathroom GFI question

Reply #9 –
Well that was as clear as mud. Thanks Dave. I don't know how I can be such good friends with these engineering types.

We miss you guys, trip too.
The selected media item is not currently available.Kent Speers
Locust Grove, OK
1993 U300 SSE 40' (Restored at FOT 2009) Build 4323
720 watts Solar
6V92TA DDEC Silver Engine
2014 Subaru Outback

Re: Bathroom GFI question

Reply #10 –
clear as mud? The gfi is on a 120 volt AC circuit. Both the black and white are classed as live wires .So both can be dangerous. What with AC changing flow direction 50 times per second.Gam
joseph gambaro
1999 U295 36'

Re: Bathroom GFI question

Reply #11 –
Make that 60 times (60 HZ).
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Bathroom GFI question

Reply #12 –
That's one that spell check didn't catch.Gam
joseph gambaro
1999 U295 36'
 

Re: Bathroom GFI question

Reply #13 –
Gam must be European
1988 40ft grandvilla u300 6v92ta 4speed allison