Progressive Industries HW50C

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Progressive Industries HW50C

April 15, 2013, 11:05:52 pm

I installed a Progressive Industries HW50C EMS last week. (after the transfer switch). Anyhow, when I got to the let's-see-how-this-baby works stage, it went south. I plugged in and the box's remote showed the expected info (voltage, freq and no errors). After the built in delay it allowed power to flow. Man, this is nice! Then 16 seconds later the power cut off; the remote started blinking three 8s, then two 8s, then one and finally... blank. I called the PI service number and got a tech right away (Tommy). I described what had happened and he said, "Never heard of one doing that." Anyhow, we turned the remote off and the box allowed power to the coach. Sent in the defective box and got a replacement in a couple of days.

All is well now but I gotta say, I can't believe how tough it is to get that seven strand 6 gauge wire bent around and through those inductive rings inside the PI box. I think GaryB said it took him four hours. Well, I'm pretty sure I passed that mark by a long shot.

Anyhow, Progressive Industries provided excellent service by answering up on a Saturday and getting me a new unit, no questions asked.
jor

Re: Progressive Industries HW50C

Reply #1 – April 15, 2013, 11:14:05 pm

@jor Good to hear. I have a new one in the box waiting a widow of opportunity for install. Glad you got yours in and working. Any advise you care to pass on as to the install?

see ya
ken

Re: Progressive Industries HW50C

Reply #2 – April 15, 2013, 11:29:55 pm

Just had mine installed. Took Keith Riech abouT two hours to remove the bed and the reach under all the steel and take out the old one. Then he installed the new one and the remote reading display. No more pulling the bed apart to see the surge guard.

Re: Progressive Industries HW50C

Reply #3 – April 16, 2013, 01:26:09 am

Why I decided to go with the plug-in-to-the-post model. Works great!

Craig

Re: Progressive Industries HW50C

Reply #4 – April 16, 2013, 01:56:58 am

I used the 6/4 SO Cord, identical to the cable that runs to the post, very easy to work with including the two small CT coils, also used the #6 copper sleeves, they prevent the fine copper wire from getting cut with the set screws, they crush very nicely & securely.
Not a biggie job.
FWIW

Re: Progressive Industries HW50C

Reply #5 – April 16, 2013, 10:16:04 am

Quote from: jor – April 15, 2013, 11:05:52 pm

I installed a Progressive Industries HW50C EMS last week. (after the transfer switch). Anyhow, when I got to the let's-see-how-this-baby works stage, it went south. I plugged in and the box's remote showed the expected info (voltage, freq and no errors). After the built in delay it allowed power to flow. Man, this is nice! Then 16 seconds later the power cut off; the remote started blinking three 8s, then two 8s, then one and finally... blank. I called the PI service number and got a tech right away (Tommy). I described what had happened and he said, "Never heard of one doing that."

I guess he never saw the YouTube video Steve sent them when ours did the exact same thing (or didn't do any diagnostics on the failed one we sent them)

Progressive EMS fail

Fortunately, they do have excellent customer service.

Re: Progressive Industries HW50C

Reply #6 – April 16, 2013, 10:27:34 am

Michelle, that is too much. Exactly the same issue. I also followed up with an email to them describing the sequence.

Quote

Any advise you care to pass on as to the install?

I installed mine according to the PI directions:
* Remove output from ATS;
* Run new cable from ATS output to EMS input;
* Hook the original ATS output into the EMS output.

I would do as DaveM suggested and get the many stranded cable and sleeves for your new cable. As far as hooking the original cable into the EMS's output, I don't see any way to make it easy. There is very little room in the box, the delicate electronics are close at hand and you have to get the hots through inductive ring dealies before screwing them down to their terminals. That wire just does not like to bend! Maybe someone else has an idea on this. Anyhow, good luck.

Oh, I couldn't figure out any way to easily route the remote display to the utility compartment so I just put it at the base of the bed. I figured that the EMS's job is to determine if the incoming power is correct and not allow it if it's not so it's not really necessary to view the readout unless it won't pass power.
jor

Re: Progressive Industries HW50C

Reply #7 – April 16, 2013, 03:54:28 pm

Try using a box end wrench to bend that heavy wire.

Re: Progressive Industries HW50C

Reply #8 – April 16, 2013, 05:34:37 pm

Quote from: John Duld – April 16, 2013, 03:54:28 pm

Try using a box end wrench to bend that heavy wire.

Yep, that's what I do, and use a pair of vice grips on the other end of the box end. Still a pain, but better than fingers.

Wishing for marine wire...

Re: Progressive Industries HW50C

Reply #9 – April 16, 2013, 05:42:16 pm

What is marine wire ? Do tell, please.

Re: Progressive Industries HW50C

Reply #10 – April 16, 2013, 05:46:36 pm

What I've seen - many more fine wires and tinned. Flexible!

Re: Progressive Industries HW50C

Reply #11 – April 16, 2013, 05:52:03 pm

Correct. Marine wire is finer-stranded and each strand is pre-tinned. BRING YOUR WALLET!

Here is an example:http://www.marinco.com/productline/wire-cable

Re: Progressive Industries HW50C

Reply #12 – April 16, 2013, 05:55:43 pm

Silver coated copper wire is used in high loading compact areas mostly. I use the copper #6 fine stranded as in common 6/4 SO Cord. Very flexible.
Thanks, marine wire, did not know marine wire was used in all larger gensets, always leaning new lingo

Dave M

Re: Progressive Industries HW50C

Reply #13 – April 16, 2013, 06:18:17 pm

Wolfe10,
You have my attention, so let me in on the NEC Code of the marine cable, am very interested in its specs etc.
Thanks
Dave M

Re: Progressive Industries HW50C

Reply #14 – April 16, 2013, 06:35:53 pm

Quote from: Dave M – April 16, 2013, 06:18:17 pm

Wolfe10,
You have my attention, so let me in on the NEC Code of the marine cable, am very interested in its specs etc.
Thanks
Dave M

Dave,

Sorry, I have no idea. I do know that using "automotive" or "house" wire (uncoated copper) will turn to green powder in less than two years in a salt water marine environment. Early boats (like the ones we sailed in the 1970's) had regular automotive wire and almost constant electrical issues. With "marine wire" and the use of silicone grease in connections, we go for years with no issues.

Re: Progressive Industries HW50C

Reply #15 – April 16, 2013, 06:41:47 pm

Sure understand the reason for silver coated, only have seen it on larger gensets due to smaller gauge size vs load ability (amps). Was hoping for the NEC Classification to read up on it.
Thanks
Dave M

Re: Progressive Industries HW50C

Reply #16 – April 16, 2013, 07:00:49 pm

My understanding is that marine wire is tinned, not silver coated though for the price it ought to be. Actually, it's cheap in the long run in the marine environment.

Chuck

Re: Progressive Industries HW50C

Reply #17 – April 16, 2013, 07:10:49 pm

I wonder if what I have is what you guys are describing.
I have a reel of 14GA wire stenciled on the reel as PRESTOLITE FLOURCARBON INSULATED wire. It has a clear insulation over a braided insulation and it is pre tinned. I use it for everything and I will never live long enough to use it all. Story was that it was liberated from the Savannah River Plant Surplus area over fifty years ago. If you are anywhere near and need several feet let me know.
Gary B

Re: Progressive Industries HW50C

Reply #18 – April 16, 2013, 08:38:55 pm

Quote from: jor – April 16, 2013, 10:27:34 am

Oh, I couldn't figure out any way to easily route the remote display to the utility compartment so I just put it at the base of the bed. I figured that the EMS's job is to determine if the incoming power is correct and not allow it if it's not so it's not really necessary to view the readout unless it won't pass power.

Since our transfer switch is on the back wall of one of the streetside bays, Steve took down the bay "ceiling" panels and routed the wire for the display switch and one display to the utility bay so we can monitor when we first plug in.

He ran the second display wire (we bought the additional display kit that has the switch box and a second display) in the bay ceiling across the width of the coach and up to where the power line monitor and Xantrex readouts are and we have a second display there.

Once all looks good after plug in, we flip the switch in the utility bay so we can monitor from inside the coach. I like to watch the AC current draw, especially if we are on 30 amp.

Michelle

Re: Progressive Industries HW50C

Reply #19 – April 18, 2013, 03:53:17 pm

Luck, I found a new lead in my stock, marked Copperfield, 600 V, 150 C, AWM I, A/B, FT-1, VW-1, UL, CSA,
Enough of that markings,l While I thought it was silver coated copper, I think it is tinned copper wire. No where can I find it refered to as "Marine Wire", it is listed for use in some bad areas, chemicals, oils, etc etc etc...
ANyway, we find this quality on the Onan/Cummins Generators between the main breaker and the buss bars.
Maybe someone familiar with searching Copperfield Wire to get the rest of the story.
Cheers
Dave M

Re: Progressive Industries HW50C

Reply #20 – April 18, 2013, 04:25:32 pm

I have never been able to find a "standard" for marine cable. Both ABS (American Bureau of Shipping) and ABYC (American Boat and Yacht Council) are silent on the matter of standards for wire. What is commonly referred to as marine wire is wire that is finely stranded with each strand tinned. All it means is that it is flexible so it won't break from vibration and is coated to prevent corrosion.

Single strand wire should never be used where vibration is present as it will work harden and break. This sets up an open in the cable that electricity will "jump" over producing a hot spot in the wire and the chance of a fire.

Keith

Re: Progressive Industries HW50C

Reply #21 – April 21, 2013, 02:05:58 pm

Dave, Here is a link to some info and specks on marine wire:

Cobra Wire & Cable, A Division of EIS, Inc. | UL 1426 Flat Multiple Conductor

Cobra Wire & Cable, A Division of EIS, Inc. | Boat Cable

I have found the best pricing at Marine & Boat Supplies Since 1928 | Fisheries Supply after setting up a account.

Cheers

Ted

Quote from: Dave M – April 18, 2013, 03:53:17 pm

Luck, I found a new lead in my stock, marked Copperfield, 600 V, 150 C, AWM I, A/B, FT-1, VW-1, UL, CSA,
Enough of that markings,l While I thought it was silver coated copper, I think it is tinned copper wire. No where can I find it refered to as "Marine Wire", it is listed for use in some bad areas, chemicals, oils, etc etc etc...
ANyway, we find this quality on the Onan/Cummins Generators between the main breaker and the buss bars.
Maybe someone familiar with searching Copperfield Wire to get the rest of the story.
Cheers
Dave M

Re: Progressive Industries HW50C

Reply #22 – April 21, 2013, 05:40:45 pm

Try Pacer Group - Marine Wire, Battery Cable and Electrical Parts for products and pricing. I have dropped my account, now that I'm out of the marine trades, but always had exceptional service and pricing from this company.

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