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Topic: Foretravel and Country Coach comparison? (Read 2903 times) previous topic - next topic

Foretravel and Country Coach comparison?

 Presently nogotiating on a 1998 U270, IMO the owner's asking price is still $10-15000 high. He knows we are very interested but I never countered with a price. I just said, it seems we are too far apart a this moment. I did get more info on history eg: speedo reads 23000 miles but the F/T has closer to 90000, because of speedo replaced when he bought it 5 years ago.

 I would class this unit as average condition, not a pride of ownership unit. Eight year old tires, original refrigerator, original interior, needs driver glass, five side glass snaking, cleaning and polish. So we will see if he reduces his price as time goes on. I would be interested at no more than $35000 as is.

 Yesterday a Country Coach of about the same vintage ( no slides ) was parked by the F/T, in for service. Besides the quality build and design of the U270, I am equally drawn to the classic bus look. This C/C has that same boxy look, I like.

 Question is  have any of the F/T owners here previously owned a simliar C/C and how would you compare the ownership experience.

Kevin 

Re: Foretravel and Country Coach comparison?

Reply #1 –
The only CC's I looked at were around 10 years older..and at that point FT won. I just like the interiors better, and mechanical layout was more logical. No idea how they compare in the 90's though!
Jay
1989 U280 SE, 36', 3208T Cat, build 3292

Re: Foretravel and Country Coach comparison?

Reply #2 –
That age Country Coach was a well built unit - but the ride and build quality won't come close to a Foretravel, unless its a Magna. Remember, with a Foretravel you get the exact same chassis, built on the same assembly line whether its a 270, a 295 or a 320. There's no quality difference in Foretravels - only options.

For the Foretravel:

Do you get the feeling he's upside down on the coach? I would just explain to him that with the age of the unit and the money I would need to put into it to make it right for me, its value (TO ME) is in the $35K range. I like the coach and should he be determined to sell it in the near future that would be an agreeable price. Explain that new tires and shocks, window repair, driver glass and required services alone approaches $10K.parts and labor.

He may be offended. He may not agree that is a fair price. But you have given him a price point to consider. I would also tell him you will give the coach a good new home. That can be very important...

Tell him that, wait three months and call him back (assuming you haven't found a better coach). Assuming he's making payments on the coach, he has just spent another $2500.00 on a coach that still sits, declining in value.

My dad bought a LOT of vehicles a week after the classified ad expired in the newspaper.
The selected media item is not currently available. Dave Head & Megan Westbrook
Titusville, FL - The Great Outdoors
'98 270 buying this month
Toad is a 2018 F150 XLT

Re: Foretravel and Country Coach comparison?

Reply #3 –
Kevin,

Dave makes excellent points.  You can never buy something below the asking price without making an offer.  To compare CC's and FT's, you MUST make a complete specification comparison.  I've found that when trying to compare apples to apples, the CC always comes up short because of corner cutting.  Such things as capacities of all holding tanks, batteries, tires, alternators, furnaces, A/C's, fridges.  You get the picture.  I could be wrong about the specific coach you saw, but until you do the analysis, there is no way of telling from just looks.
Regards,
Brett

'99 42' Foretravel Xtreme
'14 Brown Motorsports Stacker
'05 Chevy SSR
'02 BMW R1150R

Re: Foretravel and Country Coach comparison?

Reply #4 –
In that vintage, the biggest comparison is the CC will have frame rails in the chassis and the FT wont have any.  That impacts capacities (black, grey, fresh as well as diesel and propane) and storage capacity.  The FT structure will be more efficient with a lighter structure but have more capacity.  Another thing to compare is the weight per horsepower - almost always lower (i.e. more power) with the FT.  That said there are still many satisfied CC owners out there - you just need to study, view units in person and decide for yourself.  IMO, CC is a good coach but we all have different things that matter to us.
John Fitzgerald
1991 U300 (SAI) Side Aisle Island Bed 40'
Detroit 6V92 with Allison Retarder
Meridian (Boise), Idaho

Re: Foretravel and Country Coach comparison?

Reply #5 –
Sold and used both coaches many times.  Cc, was in the older models, lower to the ground all around.  I go down bumpy and rutted dirt roads alot.  That was the idea to me.

How well a vehicle dry camps is the mark of a Rv for me personally.  Not everyone's use but anything can drive super slabs and plug into a power source.

That's why I prefer the non painted Foretravels.  White gel coat does not get as hot in the sun and minor branches scraping on the exterior do not visibly damage the coach.

Same idea as a boat. Almost all boats are white gel coat for the same reasons.

Pulled into my sister-in-law's country farms driveway yesterday and the steep rutted entry with a fairly quick turn in it would have knocked an intrigues step off.  I used to raise the air suspension on a cc in advance of approaching such an obstacle so it would clear.

Cc used to have frame rails in the middle of their coach then front and rear suspension assemblies were welded to the center tub.

Cc was an all welded structure very precisely made.  Lazer aligned at every stage in the chassis production.

Foretravel is a bolt together structure.  The walls, roof, floor, compartment dividers, sub floors and roof were all pre built laminated structures that were bolted together.

Lighter and less welding time was the goal I remember.

More ground clearance was needed as the older roads had a high crown and long wheelbase rigs like wander lodges and buses would high center off the super slab with enough crown to the road.

Cc is for most purposes out of business.  Foretravel is not. Giant advantage to have a functioning motor ship.

I am sitting in my white gel coat coach at 80+ degrees now with no fans or a/c on. Not a noise but the birds chirping.  Versus close the coach up and turn on the air?

I am dry camping on a 20 amp 110 volt 100' 10 gauge power cord.  I am able to have the aqua hot heat the coach and water, or run one air that easily cools the coach in less than 90 degrees or run the microwave.  Nice to have the volt meter and comsumption use gauge by the refer.

The dometic on gas is 37 degrees in the refer and zero in the freezer at number 3 on the temp gauge and the chest 100 pound outside freezer is very low power draw.

And the Foretavel gets better mileage.  Faster up the hills also.

I knew exactly what I was buying to buy this coach as the flexibility was what I wanted.

Versus pretty tender paint and low ground clearance and less power to weight ratio and worse mileage.

Previous owners Richard and Betty mentioned the coach at 60 gets 10mpg. Amazing feat.

Personally I may regear the rear axle to raise the mph that the peak torque of the engine occurs.

Instead of 3.91's maybe 3.71 or 3.53's

I know wind resistance will cut the mpg but if I can get 9mpg at 70 it would be better on the interstates out west.

What do you guys think?
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Foretravel and Country Coach comparison?

Reply #6 –
I would say $35,000 is the right price. If you want the coach, offer them your price as a firm offer and we will eventually see you down the road.

Re: Foretravel and Country Coach comparison?

Reply #7 –
     I want to thank you all for the valuable input. I don't want this to be a " Oh what should I pay " or " Did a get a good deal" thread. Your information and experience with the Foretravel brand has given me the insight to make an honest realistic offer. I have always said regarding purchases... fall in love with it after you buy, not before.
   

Re: Foretravel and Country Coach comparison?

Reply #8 –
Bob,

Why not just replace the rear axle assembly or third member with a two speed unit like a Monaco Crown Royal? Best of both worlds then.

9 mpg @ 70 is about max with 102" and a high rig even with a taller final drive. 10 mpg at 60 on fairly flat terrain is pretty easy. 10 mph makes a big difference in the air you have to push. With all the grades in the west, we average in the 7s unless we are down in the valley or south coast.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Foretravel and Country Coach comparison?

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart –
Bob,

Why not just replace the rear axle assembly or third member with a two speed unit like a Monaco Crown Royal? Best of both worlds then.

9 mpg @ 70 is about max with 102" and a high rig even with a taller final drive. 10 mpg at 60 on fairly flat terrain is pretty easy. 10 mph makes a big difference in the air you have to push. With all the grades in the west, we average in the 7s unless we are down in the valley or south coast.

Pierce

Good idea.  I drove and sold a lot of those monacos with a four speed Allison and the two speed rear end due to the lower rpm of the inline six cummins the two speed was necessary.  Interesting idea.  Not sure if the two speed would fit the housing?

Might be a 75mph at torque peak I think rig if it has a 20% gear difference. 

Need a little more motor as every time I raised a coaches power they got better mileage.

The performance places for a celect plus are limited.  Anyone have any info?

Coach appears to have enough cooling to handle more hp.  And the trans is good to 1800 pound feet of torque I understand.

Sure pulls hard on cruise up a grade at 62mph. Goes past the 62 to 63 then settles back.  That's what makes me think about regearing the coach.  You can feel it pull.  Does not go past the set mph on cruise at 70mph.  Big torque peak at 1300 not at 1500 rpm.
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Foretravel and Country Coach comparison?

Reply #10 –
Ya got my attention on the two speed rear gearing, understanding some of the issues of durability using a manual transmission, I have no idea how well it would work with the auto trany and the unsavy RV'r ?
I sense lots of chiped gears and wear, meaning lots of repair.
Or it it used in low most days and in hi other days, not used for normal driving/shifting like a loaded mid weight truck ?
 So how did it work for the Monaco gang and it so wonderful, why do I not see it on a Foretravel today ?
Years ago the two speed rear was tried on the GM bus line, but that idea has also faded away  due to driver inability to properly live with it.

Re: Foretravel and Country Coach comparison?

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Dave M –
Ya got my attention on the two speed rear gearing, understanding some of the issues of durability using a manual transmission, I have no idea how well it would work with the auto trany and the unsavy RV'r ?
I sense lots of chiped gears and wear, meaning lots of repair.
Or it it used in low most days and in hi other days, not used for normal driving/shifting like a loaded mid weight truck ?
 So how did it work for the Monaco gang and it so wonderful, why do I not see it on a Foretravel today ?
Years ago the two speed rear was tried on the GM bus line, but that idea has also faded away  due to driver inability to properly live with it.

The two speed worked well for the customers.  No problems. Take your foot off the throttle and flip the little lever and it normally worked.    The L10 cummins low rpm versus a v8 cat or 555 v8 cummins or fuel pincher Detroit limited its top speed in fourth gear to much.  3208 was almost 3000 rpm.  Needed a couple of extra gears.  Not available as Allison told me the design work had been done on the world trans but it would be shelved for a few years as the assembly line in Indiana had just been re done and as they had no competition they were going to keep selling the non World Series trans line for a few more years. 

True story.  the new World Series design and testing were done before 1990. 

That's what the Allison guys told me and they showed prototypes at Rv shows back then.

Bob

"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Foretravel and Country Coach comparison?

Reply #12 –
Dave,

Appreciate the concern for chipped gears. Many years ago, the City of Santa Barbara along with many other municipalities (Grass Valley and Nevada City included), bought small 309D Mercedes buses. Instead of the manual transmission, they were ordered with Allison automatics. Crown Coach had also delivered small pumpers with 348 Chevy engines and Allison automatics. For some reason, they all shifted hard. Not just hard but incredibly hard. The bus drivers would get complaints about their driving technique from riders.
Anyway, in a short amount of time ring and pinons started chipping. Dozens of R&Ps were replaced but no one thought to soften up the shifting. Wonder if the operator was not told the correct way to shift the RV and may have been responsible for any R&P damage. Lots of two speed rear ends in use today.

I our case it would be perfect. Stock is 3.05 and the two speed was something like a 2.86 and a 3.20. Can't remember the exact numbers but with our 4 speed, it would make our driveway possible in first and probably add as much as .5 mpg at cruising speeds. Buying a used assembly might be cheaper than changing the third member even if it would fit. Remaining problem would be fitting the brakes if the replacement had big drums in the back. Fun to think about anyway.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)
 

Re: Foretravel and Country Coach comparison?

Reply #13 –
Pierce,
So interesting, my rear is 3.91 (I think) , so with the Allison 4000R, with .64 OD is same as a 2.5 rear, so you understand the beauty of modern gearing and the joy with my setup with the IM 500, it loves the torque side vs hp side rpm wise. ;D