front wheel stemco oil reservoir

Topic: front wheel stemco oil reservoir (Read 1639 times) previous topic - next topic

front wheel stemco oil reservoir

July 02, 2013, 10:01:41 pm

Hello, went out to do my check on getting ready to leave in am and noted that there was a little oil leaking on the front drivers wheel. I took off the baby moon hubcap that covers the wheel bearing and noted that the stemco clear plastic (on other side) was white and opaque as shown. It did have oil in it. The red cap was just a tad loose. I used some teflon tape to make it snug. I have a couple of questions that sure would be helpful. First I need a diagnosis. My guess it has gotten hot and now has a color change? Second, is this something that needs addressing right away? My guess would be yes, but frankly am uncertain. I don't see any thing else. I note I just got it back yesterday and new tires were installed on both of the front wheels. I have not noticed this before, could it be related to the tire change (same size brand etc)? Thanks!

Re: front wheel stemco oil reservoir

Reply #1 – July 02, 2013, 10:07:14 pm

If you take the red plug out, is the oil clear and at the correct level? Can You remove a white substance from the plastic? If the answers are yes, yes and no, I think you're fine. Otherwise, get the hub checked. Is the other side the same?

Re: front wheel stemco oil reservoir

Reply #2 – July 02, 2013, 10:36:05 pm

I think the oil level is close to the top but I note it did loose just a tad which you can see in the photo. I think I have a hub issue. The oil seems to not be as clear as the other side. Is this something that Foretravel should do (that means driving about 150 miles. I am somewhat frustrated as I just got new tires yesterday and they did not note this to me. It seems (but may not be) that they should have seen this unless it just went bad on 30 mile trip from the tires.

Re: front wheel stemco oil reservoir

Reply #3 – July 02, 2013, 10:48:51 pm

Charles,
When my driver's front bearings disintegrated, the clear rim around the Stemco turned opaque and was bulged out. Didn't appear that your rim was bulged, but not sure. Oil was discolored. It doesn't take long for damage to occur once a bearing lets go. Heat builds up quickly. 30 miles would be long enough. Seems like tire dealer's people should have noticed it if it had occurred prior to replacing with new tires, but most are not "master mechanics".

IMHO it would be risky driving 150 miles to Nac. Others may disagree.

Re: front wheel stemco oil reservoir

Reply #4 – July 02, 2013, 11:03:59 pm

Charles,

Repair Shop In Houston Area to replace rear brake rotor Look at the third post down by Rudy. I've heard numerous positive comments on this shop in Channelview.

Chuck

Re: front wheel stemco oil reservoir

Reply #5 – July 02, 2013, 11:14:14 pm

Quote from: drcscruggs – July 02, 2013, 10:01:41 pm

..................................My guess it has gotten hot and now has a color change? Second, is this something that needs addressing right away? My guess would be yes, but frankly am uncertain. I don't see any thing else. I note I just got it back yesterday and new tires were installed on both of the front wheels. I have not noticed this before, could it be related to the tire change (same size brand etc)? .......................................

Charles,
I think that your overheating guess may have some merit. I don't see how a tire change could have triggered a bearing failure, but it would be interesting to hydraulically jack that wheel off the ground and slowly rotate the tire to see if the bearing is rough/gritty sounding/crackling a bit when rotated/or if there is any slight "give" to the bearing when you wiggle the wheel in and out/side to side (any of which indicates a failed or failing bearing that should not be trusted to drive).
With the red cap removed, is the bearing oil the color of that in the following "linked" picture?

I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Can you get a whiff of the bearing oil? Does it smell overheated at all as compared with the the opposite side bearing reservoir? If it has discolored the sight glass, if has probably been hot enough to leave a "toasted" odor.
Is that fresh bearing oil under your tire in your second picture? ..Alarm!!
What does the inside of the wheel look like? Is there any oil leaking there? Oil on the outside comes from a red cap or hub cover gasket leak. Oil on the inside comes from a shaft (axle) seal leak.
As Don has said, if there is confirming indication that it has been overheated, I wouldn't move the coach without advice from FT or a Truck front end shop.
Neal

Re: front wheel stemco oil reservoir

Reply #6 – July 02, 2013, 11:16:58 pm

Charles I noticed a small oil streak on my front tire wheel from center of the rim when I got back from Branson. I really haven't thought it meant anything as I have not seen any other oil. I think I will look closer as we are planning to go to Colo to get out of the Texas heat for the summer. DAN

Re: front wheel stemco oil reservoir

Reply #7 – July 02, 2013, 11:25:20 pm

Quote from: drcscruggs – July 02, 2013, 10:01:41 pm

First I need a diagnosis. My guess it has gotten hot and now has a color change? Second, is this something that needs addressing right away?

I think you're right - must have gotten hot.
Yes, I would address right away. Nothing Foretravel specific about this - I would think most truck shops should be able to handle it without any issues.

For future reference, I recently discovered water in one of mine. The water emulsified with the oil amazingly well - it must be made to do that. Here are photos.
I flushed it out first with diesel, then tranny fluid, then finally with gear oil. I discovered shooting shop air into the top of the bearing will force more fluid out during draining.
I'll change the oil again in a few months just to be sure.

Re: front wheel stemco oil reservoir

Reply #8 – July 02, 2013, 11:47:03 pm

Over heating should make the oil turn black and smell very bad. Water in the oil will turn it white or make it look like chocolate milk.Gam

Re: front wheel stemco oil reservoir

Reply #9 – July 03, 2013, 12:16:00 am

Charles,

After Neal (I think) referenced the picture of your entire tire, I too noticed that there are barely perceptible streaks of oil from the hub running down your tire, pooling beneath the tire tread. Aside from overfilling the hub, which is not the case here, the other possible causes are all bad (seals, bearings, or both).

Re: front wheel stemco oil reservoir

Reply #10 – July 03, 2013, 12:44:59 am

well I went outside and no oil on inside. All oil is on outside. Upon close examination I note that the opaque white (was clear) oil cover with plug has a small crack at the base. It is very slightly bulged out. Seems that it has gotten hot and the outside needs changing and from all of the GREAT input, looks like bearings heated up and now loosing oil through crack. Will have to address tomorrow. I thank all!!

Re: front wheel stemco oil reservoir

Reply #11 – July 03, 2013, 09:47:50 pm

Below the plugs window is another circle. That's the oil level. Not the plugs height.

Bob

Re: front wheel stemco oil reservoir

Reply #12 – July 03, 2013, 10:06:33 pm

Gam is on track with thwe water, when you mix water & oil, milky looking oil is the result.
Had te issue on the MCI, removed wheel assy clean, inspect bearings, reassemble, new Stemco gaskets and new plugs, then did not allow rain water to run down on the Stemco's.
End of the issue.
No heating issues unless bearing was too snug, = no clearance for oil.
I have played this game, you do what gives the w&f for you.

Re: front wheel stemco oil reservoir

Reply #13 – July 04, 2013, 06:30:57 am

Lube oils all have a different amount of emulsified water they can retain before turning white in color. As a % that runs from under 1% to over 10% . The amount of water to turn all the gear oil in a hub white would be about 1 teaspoon. If only the oil on the window was white the amount of water would be less then a drop. If the plug was loose water can enter as the hub cools . As for the hub running hot,if it got over 212F the water would have boiled out of the oil. Petroleum based oils are good to about 250 F.Gam

Re: front wheel stemco oil reservoir

Reply #14 – July 04, 2013, 07:03:54 am

If the wheel bearing oil is milky white it has been contaminated with water. Most likely the seal on the inner side of the wheel or the clear plastic cap seal. Mine was the inner wheel seal, after running in any deep water if that seal is compromised it will allow moisture into the bearings. You will burn up the bearings if you drive more than a few miles. The fill line for your front hubs is just below the RED plug, and the hub has a drain screw/plug somewhere on the side of the casting. rotate the wheel so that drain plug is to the bottom and drain and flush out as much of the milky oil as you can, then refill with 90 weight gear oil. This will allow you to get your coach to a shop where they can pull the wheel and hub assembly to change the inner wheel seal. The hub has a "well" inside that is difficult to get the contaminated oil out of without removing the hub assembly, it must be removed and flushed with gear oil or you could burn up the front axle bearing and hub, (very expensive Fix). I limped my coach over 500 miles by flushing, checking and adding gear lube every 100 miles or so, with no damage to the bearings or axle shaft. The oil in the site glass should always be clear, not milky,and maintained at the full line. The axle /bearing service manual that was included with my coach states "not to overfill the hub".

Re: front wheel stemco oil reservoir

Reply #15 – July 04, 2013, 08:27:19 am

The owner said that the oil seems not to be as clear as the oil in the other hub. So it sounds to me that only the oil on the clear plastic has turned white.Owner also said that the red plug was loose and that there is a small crack in the base area of the plastic. To me this all adds up to a new plastic hub cover,new plug, jack up front end and check for free play and turn wheel to feel for smoothness ,and two hub oil changes over the next few weeks.I would also keep the hub cap off until the 2ND oil change to check for and discoloration or frothing of the oil.But that just me.Gam

Re: front wheel stemco oil reservoir

Reply #16 – July 04, 2013, 08:29:32 am

Quote from: drcscruggs – July 03, 2013, 12:44:59 am

well I went outside and no oil on inside. All oil is on outside. Upon close examination I note that the opaque white (was clear) oil cover with plug has a small crack at the base. It is very slightly bulged out. Seems that it has gotten hot and the outside needs changing and from all of the GREAT input, looks like bearings heated up and now loosing oil through crack. Will have to address tomorrow. I thank all!!

Charles,
With the following symptoms:

No oil leak on the inside of wheel and tire surfaces

All oil leaked on the outside of wheel and tire surfaces

Stemco Hub oil level sightglass has turned opaque white from its original clear condition

The original clear Stemco sightglass (not the red removable service plug) is very slightly bulged out and has a small crack in it (I believe that you are saying)

There is oil in the Stemco Hub, but it has changed color (to something other than a milky color) i. e. - the oil doesn't look like the picture below

From what I can see there are two important facts:

it appears the hub has been overheated and

keep the coach off the highway until it's addressed

As John F has said, FT involvement isn't required.....any good truck service outfit can help you.
But, even with oil in the hub, if the bearing(s) has overheated enough to turn the sightglass opaque, I wouldn't drive the coach at highway speeds until I got some advice from a service outfit.

I think you are on target but, the oil/water emulsification discussion tangent may be creating confusion, rather than helping you with your request. Don Hay's advice is good:

Quote from: Don Hay – July 02, 2013, 10:48:51 pm

.................When my driver's front bearings disintegrated, the clear rim around the Stemco turned opaque and was bulged out.................................Oil was discolored. It doesn't take long for damage to occur once a bearing lets go. Heat builds up quickly. 30 miles would be long enough. Seems like tire dealer's people should have noticed it if it had occurred prior to replacing with new tires, but most are not "master mechanics". IMHO it would be risky driving 150 miles to Nac....................

As an aside:
You mentioned putting teflon tape on the Red Service Plug, to "snug" it up:
I personally don't like using teflon tape, especially where small strands of it may go astray and plug up air, water or oil flow (pneumatic or hydraulic) passages. In high pressure, threaded, emergency situations, I'll use it, but not until I get into that situation. Just saying, I wouldn't use teflon tape on the red service plug where strands of it could go on to interfere with hub oil flow to the bearing surfaces.
Let us know how you make out and good luck!
Neal

Re: front wheel stemco oil reservoir

Reply #17 – July 04, 2013, 11:12:39 am

To address the comment;

Quote

"The owner said that the oil seems not to be as clear as the oil in the other hub. So it sounds to me that only the oil on the clear plastic has turned white."

The two front wheels are independent of each other and do not use a common oil reservoir as a rear axle would. Because oil is lighter than water the oil, will separate and float on top of the water, and the water will accumulate in the well of the hub. While it is an emulsion the water will be suspended throughout the fluid and effect the lubricating quality of the oil. On my coach I had no visible oil on the inside of the wheel or tire all oil streaks were on the outer side of the rim and tire, the hub was actually overfull with milky liquid, I also noticed this milky fluid dripping from the hub cap onto the rim and tire. In my situation the inner seal was allowing water to enter the hub area but did not allow the oil to escape (Viscosity?). So, I had one (1) inner front wheel seal replaced and that cured my problem. I do check the hubs before every trip by pulling the hub cap for a visual inspection.

Re: front wheel stemco oil reservoir

Reply #18 – July 04, 2013, 12:47:00 pm

Gerry,

I'm in total agreement with you, if the oil in Charles' hub is consistently milky white in color.

I haven't experienced it but I assume that once emulsified, the oil/water emulsion will remain so well after driving and will adhere to the inner surface of the sight glass, such that it looks like a light colored chocolate milk adhered everywhere? It certainly looks that way in John's pictures.

Anyway, several of us were asking what the characteristics of the oil in Charles' hub are.

Absent knowing that for sure, I understood the oil to be only slightly discolored (darkened maybe, not milky). I also understood that the sightglass itself has turned opaque, and also, potentially, had slightly bulged and presented a small crack. Additionally, the oil leaked out of Charles' hub, onto the wheel and under the tire, doesn't appear to be milky in the pictures that he gave us. These characteristics seemed more like overheating than water intrusion. And I'm still concerned that an overheated bearing might be close to falling apart and might start trying to shed a wheel going down the highway.

Just need to wait for an update from Charles.

Thanks Gerry,
Neal

Re: front wheel stemco oil reservoir

Reply #19 – July 08, 2013, 08:48:59 am

Hello, Thanks to all. I have been off the net. Went to rural Illinois (near Tamms) where I don't have internet (or even good telephone service). I did see another Foretravel there though on the 4th. That was the only motorhome that I saw at the fireworks on the fouth. I had driven the toad to the fireworks.
I have included a photo of the changed "hubcap" for the stemco wheel bearing. I got it fixed on the 3rd and immediately took off for Illinois. It apparently was just a leak. I have driven it about 1600 miles without an issue. The oil was mostly if not completely changed with the change of the cover (clear to replace the opaque white cover). No the oil was not milky in appearance. It did look dark though (now clear). I was concerned that there may have been metal fragments in it. I took it back to the shop where the new tires and some other things had been done and they told me that it was only the cover and replaced it. So far (1600 miles) seems to be a-OK. I was concerned as I did not wish an issue on that journey (certainly not with a wheel bearing). Again Thanks again, Neal,
Gerry, Gam Dave Don etal. What a great forum.

Re: front wheel stemco oil reservoir

Reply #20 – July 08, 2013, 09:26:05 am

Quote from: drcscruggs – July 08, 2013, 08:48:59 am

.....................The oil was mostly if not completely changed with the change of the cover (clear to replace the opaque white cover). No the oil was not milky in appearance. It did look dark though (now clear).
.....................I took it back to the shop where the new tires and some other things had been done and they told me that it was only the cover and replaced it.....................

Great Charles.
Glad it was only a cracked Stemco Hub cover. And that could well have occurred during your wheel removal/reinstallation for new steer tires.
I've never seen a Stemco cover where the sightglass portion turned opaque, though. That remains a mystery.
Thanks for "closing the loop".
Happy travels,
Neal

Re: front wheel stemco oil reservoir

Reply #21 – July 09, 2013, 05:54:43 am

Neal, over the years of doing work on heavy vehicles I have seen some of the hub cap sight glasses turned white, as well as the bowls on water/fuel separator. Some mechanics like every thing real clean and spray the covers with carb or brake clean, depending on whats in it some of it will turn plastic white especially if the part is warm when sprayed. Additionally some truck washes and the like use an acid to clean aluminum wheels and fuel tanks that will discolor plastic and glass.

Re: front wheel stemco oil reservoir

Reply #22 – July 09, 2013, 06:15:23 am

Ya gotta love hands on experience, There is humor here.

Re: front wheel stemco oil reservoir

Reply #23 – July 09, 2013, 01:22:26 pm

Quote from: bbeane – July 09, 2013, 05:54:43 am

...................I have seen some of the hub cap sight glasses turned white, as well as the bowls on water/fuel separator. Some mechanics like every thing real clean and spray the covers with carb or brake clean, depending on whats in it some of it will turn plastic white especially if the part is warm when sprayed. Additionally some truck washes and the like use an acid to clean aluminum wheels and fuel tanks that will discolor plastic and glass...........................

Bruce,
I've seen similar, especially with mechanics that use acetone, carb and brake cleaners on plastic, such as on tailights and headlights. The carb and brake cleaner or acetone misuses I've seen all turned the plastic "opaque-hazy", but not bright white like Charles' hub was showing.
So good to know that they can turn the hub sightglasses bright white as well.

Speaking of truck washes, I've seen so much coach damage from the East Coast "Blue Beacon" (among others) truck powerwash products, services and personnel, that I avoid them like the plague. I've often wondered how they stay in business, considering how well some truckers and outfits maintain their rigs.
At RiverBend, we had a brand new King Aire, from Toronto, with totaled paint last winter. And, the owner had specified (to the Brunswick, GA. Blue Beacon) no harsh cleaners or treatment. He did pay extra for the citrus acid "shine" product that they applied to his Alcoa wheels, that seemed to have etched his Dura-Brite wheels. The wheels gradually turned hazy and stayed that way. One trip. One $Mega-mistake!
Thanks.
Neal

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