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Topic: First introduction of transmission retarder (split from Re: Replacing transmission retarder valve) (Read 1013 times) previous topic - next topic

First introduction of transmission retarder (split from Re: Replacing transmission retarder valve)

Quote from: RRadio –
The retarder valve was leaking on my 1991 U300 and I replaced it while I was at Foretravel in Nacogdoches a while ago. They tried to look it up on the drawings but the retarder wasn't even on the drawings. They said 1991 was the first year for the retarder and of course Foretravel was the first manufacturer ever to offer a retarder and very few customers ordered retarders that first year. After thinking about it a couple of the guys at Foretravel said they remember my coach being built and they think it was the very first coach ever to have a retarder. Foretravel had to put their own valve on when they built my coach because Allison didn't supply one yet so they used an expensive European valve instead.

No idea when the 1st retarder was OEM on the U300 , but the 1989 U300 had it as an option. Fact, not opinion.
Dave M

Re: First introduction of transmission retarder (split from Re: Replacing transmission retarder valve)

Reply #1 –
Maybe the guys at Foretravel don't remember correctly? ;)
Scott Cook
1991 U300 36' 6V92TA
Old Town Penobscot 16
1984 Honda VF1100C (V65 Magna)

Re: First introduction of transmission retarder (split from Re: Replacing transmission retarder valve)

Reply #2 –
Maybe you were talking to the young fellers ;D

Re: First introduction of transmission retarder (split from Re: Replacing transmission retarder valve)

Reply #3 –
No, the guy in the office who has the drawings, he's been there since they opened the place I think, and he called the draftsman who was there when it was built, they both said they remembered my coach being built and the special valve they had to obtain and install and that they thought it was the first coach ever built with a retarder ...but who cares, it's way off topic and doesn't matter anyway ...I shouldn't have even posted cuz nobody on here will have that weird European valve... I'm shutting up now and remembering why I try not to post stuff. ;)
Scott Cook
1991 U300 36' 6V92TA
Old Town Penobscot 16
1984 Honda VF1100C (V65 Magna)

Re: First introduction of transmission retarder (split from Re: Replacing transmission retarder valve)

Reply #4 –
Scott,
This is puzzling.  Your build number is 3907.  Mine is 3861 and I have a retarder too.  Barry's listing for a 1988 U300 shows (as standard equipment) the same transmission model that we have: MTB-648.  The B stands for retarder.  All the literature I have found indicates the retarder was standard for the U300 up to and including the 1991 model year.
I've had my retarder valve off once when it leaked a little.  I just disassembled, cleaned, and reinstalled.  If I remember correctly it's a pretty standard 5 port pneumatic spool valve that could easily be found through any number of valve manufactures and if I remember correctly the manufacture of mine is Norgren.  Maybe they started a different setup with your coach?  22 years was a long time ago.
John Fitzgerald
1991 U300 (SAI) Side Aisle Island Bed 40'
Detroit 6V92 with Allison Retarder
Meridian (Boise), Idaho

Re: First introduction of transmission retarder (split from Re: Replacing transmission retarder valve)

Reply #5 –
Every u300 had a retarder as std equipement as far as i remember and I had lots of the first ones in California as our volume was the same as the factory store.    Heck of a demo to have the customer get on the air disks hard with the retarder on.

Their eyes would get round as dinner plates and their butts almost would come off the seats. 

No manual lever in those days.  What an asset.  Much safer. 


Bob

"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: First introduction of transmission retarder (split from Re: Replacing transmission retarder valv

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Caflashbob –
Every u300 had a retarder as std equipement as far as i remember ..... 

Bob
My 1995 U300,  has no transmission retarder.
Rick

Re: First introduction of transmission retarder (split from Re: Replacing transmission retarder valv

Reply #7 –
Our 1995 U300 has a Jake.

Re: First introduction of transmission retarder (split from Re: Replacing transmission retarder valv

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Rick –
My 1995 U300,  has no transmission retarder.

Sorry only meant the 80's models I was familiar with
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: First introduction of transmission retarder (split from Re: Replacing transmission retarder valv

Reply #9 –
My GUESS would be the DDC powered had the retarder nd the Cat used the cheaper Jake setup.  JUST a GUESS.  :o

Re: First introduction of transmission retarder (split from Re: Replacing transmission retarder valv

Reply #10 –
I was always under the impression that the 95 and later was standard with a retarder and prior to that it was an option.
Gary B

Re: First introduction of transmission retarder (split from Re: Replacing transmission retarder valv

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Gary Bouland –
I was always under the impression that the 95 and later was standard with a retarder and prior to that it was an option.
Gary B

I think it was a $10k option but hardly every ordered a early u300 without one.  I do remember a flatland customer leaving it off although. 

Jake would have not been very useful in the 648mtb Atec trans.  The torque converter was unlocked until half way through third.  And the 552 cc two stroke had not a lot of compression to use with a jake.  I remember driving 6v92's and 8v92's with jakes and they were a small fraction in retardation versus an inline six's jake.  Just the nature of the design. If you revved the 6 v's hard the jake worked better. 

Same as the 3208's,  8.2 detroits and cummins triple nickle 555 v8's.  exhaust brake helped some. 
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: First introduction of transmission retarder (split from Re: Replacing transmission retarder valv

Reply #12 –
The Jake setup on the 2 cycle DDC engine is not nearly as effective as the 4 cycle egine, having played with the Jakes on the DDC 8V & 12V-71 also the 8V-92, while they are more effective at the higher rpm area, still not as good as the Jakes on the typical larger 4 stroke engines. No experience with any Cats with the Jake, but on the Cummins and the DDC/MTU 50 & 60 series they are very effective.
FWIW & YMMV, Etc.

Re: First introduction of transmission retarder (split from Re: Replacing transmission retarder valv

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Dave M –
The Jake setup on the 2 cycle DDC engine is not nearly as effective as the 4 cycle egine, having played with the Jakes on the DDC 8V & 12V-71 also the 8V-92, while they are more effective at the higher rpm area, still not as good as the Jakes on the typical larger 4 stroke engines. No experience with any Cats with the Jake, but on the Cummins and the DDC/MTU 50 & 60 series they are very effective.
FWIW & YMMV, Etc.

My favorite jake was a Monaco signature with a m14 cummins.  855 cu in.  1850 pund feet of torque. 

Did not know what a hill was and the jake had multiple cylinder controls.  Later had a customer with a factory strengthened frame tow a 16,000 off shore race boat successfully.

Buddies hated me as I would drive it up steep grades and call out on the cb asking them if they were coming.......
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: First introduction of transmission retarder (split from Re: Replacing transmission retarder valv

Reply #14 –
The 855 series ran nearly  50 years starting a 230 hp up to about 545 hp, but the EPA put an end to it.
Yes great Jake/ setup, the 4000R goes to 2000 ft lb restriction I read somewhere.
A great brake saver.
The beauty of the 855 series, they were rugged, dependable, great power, low cost parts and most anyone could fix it, very unlike the Cat engines.
 

Re: First introduction of transmission retarder (split from Re: Replacing transmission retarder valv

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Dave M –
The 855 series ran nearly  50 years starting a 230 hp up to about 545 hp, but the EPA put an end to it.
Yes great Jake/ setup, the 4000R goes to 2000 ft lb restriction I read somewhere.
A great brake saver.
The beauty of the 855 series, they were rugged, dependable, great power, low cost parts and most anyone could fix it, very unlike the Cat engines.

Monaco used an eaton economat 9 speed trans with 1 and 2 locked out if memory serves me.  Allison at that time would not ok the 4060 use.

Bob
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4