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Towing enclosed car trailer

I am shopping for my first coach, Foretravel coaches look well built and are at the top of my shopping list. I will be towing a 24' enclosed car trailer which will weigh approx. 8500 lbs with 1200 lbs tongue weight. Will a single axle coach handle this or should I limit my search to tag axles only?

Re: Towing enclosed car trailer

Reply #1 –
I'm sure Neal Pillsbury will chime in shortly - in the meantime here's a great thread about his setup with a non-tag coach which may be very similar to what you're considering

Neal's towing setup (was Actual Weights VS Placard Weights)
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Towing enclosed car trailer

Reply #2 –
Dick Henry is towing a 24 foot trailer and I think he has a single axle.  I think I would rather have a tag even if I was not towing. It has much more directional stability and you can carry more weight on a newer coach especially.
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: Towing enclosed car trailer

Reply #3 –
Thanks for the good information, I would prefer a tag if my budget can stand it. Usually tags have big power so that is an added benefit, while the extra length of the tag may be challenging. With a 42' tag plus the trailer I am thinking 70 feet overall length. I am currently towing with a 3/4 ton suburban, the coach will be a significant change indeed!

Re: Towing enclosed car trailer

Reply #4 –
We've thought about a trailer for our Wrangler (big wheels, lifted, etc). Our towing capacity is greatly reduced, however, and only 5,000 lbs so we'd need an aluminum trailer that is open. Those are around now and then; even used. We'd just use a 16' trailer I think. There might even be room on it for a box to carry camp chairs and tables.

Thanks for the link to a cogent dissection of pros and cons. Nicely done. :)

Craig
1993 U225 36' Unihome GV with PACBRAKE exhaust retarder, Banks Stinger and Solar Panels.
Toad: 1999 Jeep Wrangler 2-door soft-top.

"No one has ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke."

Re: Towing enclosed car trailer

Reply #5 –
You can get a tag on a 38 or a 40 too. There are not too many 38s with a tag out there but they seem to come up every few months.
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: Towing enclosed car trailer

Reply #6 –
The 2014 Phenix 38' w/tag & ISX600  would make a decent toter for your trailer.

Re: Towing enclosed car trailer

Reply #7 –
I haven't figured out FT's model numbers yet, is there a way to determine coach length and power train by the model number?

Re: Towing enclosed car trailer

Reply #8 –
Quote from: rookie coachman –
I haven't figured out FT's model numbers yet, is there a way to determine coach length and power train by the model number?

The best resource is here Foretravel Specifications, Floor Plans, Photos & Brochures by Year
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Towing enclosed car trailer

Reply #9 –
Quote from: rookie coachman –
I am shopping for my first coach, Foretravel coaches look well built and are at the top of my shopping list. I will be towing a 24' enclosed car trailer which will weigh approx. 8500 lbs with 1200 lbs tongue weight. Will a single axle coach handle this or should I limit my search to tag axles only?
Rookie Coachman,

Is your 8500 lbs. figure a Trailer GVW or a Cargo weight?  The 1200 Lbs. tongue weight sounds high, even for a 10K trailer, unless you have had it built that way intentionally.  Are these actual scale weights?

If your towed trailer is less than 10K Lbs. (gross, trailer plus payload) and your towing vehicle is more than two and one half times that (>25K lbs.), the ride and handling characteristics essentially shift to the total length of your (albeit articulated) vehicle.  My 36' coach with a 24' Featherlite enclosed car hauler essentially rides and handles as if it were a 60'(+) vehicle -- ultra smooth, mellow and stable.  It is perceptibly more calm and mellow behavior than the already exceptional ride and handling behavior of a BARE 36' coach.
 
Thought of in a different manner, your 5700 to 5900 Lb. Suburban, wouldn't mind towing a 2300 Lb. trailer (2.5 X 2300 = 5750 Lbs.), right?  And if you put 10% of that trailer's 2300 Lbs. (230 Lbs.) on the tow hitch, it would just mellow out the Suburban a bit and not otherwise influence the high speed highway ride and handling, right?

But staying strictly focused on FT towing, a tag helps with the handling and ride characteristics of a BARE Foretravel, but adding a tag axle does very little to nothing in terms of influencing the ride and handling characteristics of the combined coach plus trailer. With a tag, what you WILL notice is an increased turning radius, ESPECIALLY if you have a non-lifting tag and an additional 1000 to 1200 Lbs. hanging on the tow hitch. And, any tag, lifting or non-lifting, also raises your maintenance budget throughout your Foretravel's lifetime (routine corrective and preventative -- tires, tire sensors, rotations, upkeep, etc). 
Knowing that, why have a tag?  Well, a tag is highly important when considering whether or not you need to have, or choose to have, slides.  If you want slides, then I'd urge that you favor a tag in order to provide the coach with an increased net cargo carrying capacity (NCC) for the coach itself.  The improved tracking characteristics, without the trailer in tow, are just a bonus that you'll derive, along with your increased expenses.
 
I'm sure that you know that over a BARE coach, the stopping characteristics need to be supplemented by trailer braking; high capacity, load adjustable, simple to understand and use as well as automatically applied trailer braking.  If the braking is complicated, not load adjustable and/or relies upon manual initiation, you are bound to get into trouble sooner or later.
 
Acceleration characteristics, as you have already mentioned, imply big blocks and their associated higher
operating/maintenance costs if you need or want to lead traffic, especially if you have the weight of slide(s).  With no slides and the Cummins mechanical, 325 HP , 8.3, I don't have any problems staying with the flow of traffic and seldom see the need for more power running a trailer at over 9600 lbs gross trailer weight, in either the foothills or the mountains.

There is also a break point in Foretravel age and tow rating capacities.  Early Unicoach years were 5000 Lbs. with 500 Lbs. tongue weight while later years became 10,000 Lbs. and 1000 Lbs. tongue weights. More recent years have become 15K and 1.5K (or more).  I've upgraded mine (without formal FT blessing).
Hopefully this gives you some insights into your specific question.  The point is, as Michelle has pointed out, to use Barry's excellent resource and build a table specific to your curiosity.
Please email or call if you feel I can provide further insights.
Neal
The selected media item is not currently available.
Neal (& Brenda) Pillsbury
'02 U320 SPEC, 4200, DGFE, Build #5984
'04 Gold Wing
'07 Featherlite 24'
'14 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit
MC #14494
Exeter, NH & LaBelle FL
Quality makes the Heart Soar long after Price is Forgotten

Re: Towing enclosed car trailer

Reply #10 –
Neal, thank you for taking time to reply and for the insight, you obviously have put a lot of work and thought into towing with your coach. My 8500 lbs is gross wt. I tow a 24 ft V nose Rance aluminum car trailer which weighs approx. 3100, I have added about 600 lbs to the trailer with  e-track, 2 trailer spares etc.  The car I haul is 3400, Zuma scooter weighs 240. So I may be a little under the 8500 but I like add a little cushion to the estimated weight. My main concern is being over on the drive axle, I am assuming the axle is rated at 20 or 21K, with a loaded coach and trailer I could be exceeding the rating of the rear axle, diff and tires by 10 to 20%. What does your coaches rear axle typically weigh?
I agree that the single axle has may advantages in maneuverability and lower cost per mile. I just want to make sure I have enough coach to do the job.

Re: Towing enclosed car trailer

Reply #11 –
If you are going for slides you will not have much extra CCC on the rear and in fact it can be overweight. WIth my Tag I have 7000 extra carrying capacity.  I turn like a 40 footer when I release the tag.  I am 42 foot and have not had an issue yet though this spot int he campground will be an issue I think.
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: Towing enclosed car trailer

Reply #12 –
I tow a 24' enclosed, tandom axel, race car trailer. Its rated at 12,000lbs and has an 8' ceiling. I have created a storage area above the car and still have head room. I tow it with a 2006 Foretravel 40' Nimbus that has a tag. When I travel down the road I don't know its there. I just had everything weighed at Escapees in Livingston am I am happy to say I am not over Foretravels recomended towing limits and am balanced. Knowing what I know now I would shorten my trailer length to 20' or go with a shorter coach. I say this because right turns are sometimes hair raising and a lot of the parks have turns that you can't make while towing your trailer. Not to mention your longer than an 18 wheeler. I have a trailer tug, Gas Powered Trailer Mover - Trailer Tugs & Accessories - by Trailertug Pro  (that I carry inside the trailer) which allows me to move the trailer anywhere I want when I unhook from the coach. I love the trailer as I carry a kayak, car, motorcycle, etc. Lots of storage. I fulltime and do not have a house. The trailer is my garage. Later I am going to replace this trailer with a shorter taller one. This works for me.
2006 Nimbus 340'
Build #6353
Aug 2005
Motorcader #17139

Re: Towing enclosed car trailer

Reply #13 –
I think a 20 foot stacker is perfect.
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: Towing enclosed car trailer

Reply #14 –
           As you folks know , I pull a 4by4 3/4 ton pick up, and haul my Can Am on it . I have been giving the 20 ft stacker some thought .Looked at a few etc . The only down side of this is the total length .Most states have 65 ft as the max on this  , while most western states do 70ft or more . That is the only reason that holds me back. What I now pull works very good , no problems but still might give it more of a look as I haven't heard of any RV,s getting tickets for being a few feet over length . Do any of you have anything on this issue ?        Brad Metzger
Brad Metzger
2010 Phenix 45'

Re: Towing enclosed car trailer

Reply #15 –
12% of loaded trailer weight for tongue weight is optimal for trailer tracking.  You can calculate the additional load on your drive axle(no tag) if you know your rear overhang.  Very few if any stackers loaded as you intent will not exceed the rear axle weight limit without a tag.
Regards,
Brett

'99 42' Foretravel Xtreme
'14 Brown Motorsports Stacker
'05 Chevy SSR
'02 BMW R1150R
 

Re: Towing enclosed car trailer

Reply #16 –
Lots of good info. keep it coming!
I have a weight distributing hitch now and it is effective in transferring weight to rear axle of tandem trailer and front axle of tow vehicle.
I am assuming that a WDH is ineffective and unnecessary on motorhome, given the length of the coach and the self leveling air ride. Any experience out there with WDH?