Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Problem Sampling Crankcase Oil from M11 (Read 713 times) previous topic - next topic

Problem Sampling Crankcase Oil from M11

In 2012 there was a thread on this.  But the message said to not reply since it older.  I am using Blackstone Labs at suggestion of Don Hay.  Bret Wolfe suggested I wait until I have more miles to take a sample, and agree, but curiosity of getting this done has led to my first attempt to sample, have me trying this now just to see if I can get it to work.

I have this problem some had before, could not get the plastic tubing to bend the corner into the oil pan so no sample.  I will seek smaller, flexible, tubing as some wrote then.

But I wondered and did not see a reply to this question asked back then.  Can I just use the oil fill tube to get the sample?  That tube seems about one inch or so diameter or is there some obvious reason to not use that route?

mike
Mike
2001 U320 4010 Build 5878 (Gus)
Wrangle Unlimited Toad
Nacogdoches

Re: Problem Sampling Crankcase Oil from M11

Reply #1 –
What size tubing are you using to take the sample?

I use the Blackstone sampling pump. The tubing is about 1/4" OD. It goes down the dipstick tube pretty well, but does stick once in a while. I put a piece of tape on the tubing at a point where I know it is properly in the oil.

Re: Problem Sampling Crankcase Oil from M11

Reply #2 –
Bob, the tubing came with the pump and is .25 inch diameter.  The instructions say if there is a problem with using via the dipstick, buy smaller tubing or return for refund.  It does not suggest using the filler pipe as a conduit into the pan but not sure why not.

I will say that usually the dipstick does not go in easily, it is as though it hits a bend to go into the pan.  With a little twisting of the dipstick and gentle pushing back and forth it goes.  I think it is about at that distance that the plastic tubing does not want to go any further.

thanks,  Mike
Mike
2001 U320 4010 Build 5878 (Gus)
Wrangle Unlimited Toad
Nacogdoches

Re: Problem Sampling Crankcase Oil from M11

Reply #3 –
                 Try to reduce the square end edges of the tube by sanding or think of what a pencil sharpener does . Learned this years ago in the boat business as most inboard engines either do not have a drain plug or you can't get to it .Had to remove  oil via dip stick hole and pump . Some times you run into a turn that deals with a shoulder which can be set back just enough to make it tough to get to the oil pan .                Brad Metzger
Brad Metzger
2010 Phenix 45'

Re: Problem Sampling Crankcase Oil from M11

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Brad Metzger –
                  Try to reduce the square end edges of the tube by sanding or think of what a pencil sharpener does . Learned this years ago in the boat business as most inboard engines either do not have a drain plug or you can't get to it .Had to remove  oil via dip stick hole and pump . Some times you run into a turn that deals with a shoulder which can be set back just enough to make it tough to get to the oil pan .                Brad Metzger

Good thought.  My blackstone would not go in the dipstick tube either on my m11
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Problem Sampling Crankcase Oil from M11

Reply #5 –
My 1/4" tube gets hung up sometimes as well.  The tube has a natural curve to it from being rolled up in coil.  Usually all I have to do is give a half turn while pushing on the tube a bit to get past whatever the edge of the tube is catching on.

I like the pencil sharpener sort of idea. I'll try it out.  I use a pencil sharpener to put a bevel on wooden dowels that hold mortise and tenon joints together in doors, cabinets and furniture that I build in the Arts and Crafts style. Helps get the pags started in the hole and provides a bit of room for excess glue.

Roger
Roger Engdahl and Susan Green
2001 U320 3610 #5879 (Home2) - 2014 Jeep Cherokee or 2018 F150
Hastings, MN

Re: Problem Sampling Crankcase Oil from M11

Reply #6 –
Glad to know I'm not the only one having trouble getting an oil sample from an M11.  I'll have to try the trimming it like a pencil sharpener idea.  Thanks!
The selected media item is not currently available.
Douglas and Amanda
1997 40' U320 "Brawley"
2007 Ford Explorer Eddie Bauer
Motorcade #17266 Escapee #113692

Re: Problem Sampling Crankcase Oil from M11

Reply #7 –
Be careful not to fill the end of the sample tube with a lot of crud as it enters the oil pan, know of such and created a costly panic when the results came back.

Re: Problem Sampling Crankcase Oil from M11

Reply #8 –
I cut the end at a 45 degree angle.  If it sticks, I rotate the tubing 180 degrees in place and it clears the obstacle.
Regards,
Brett

'99 42' Foretravel Xtreme
'14 Brown Motorsports Stacker
'05 Chevy SSR
'02 BMW R1150R

Re: Problem Sampling Crankcase Oil from M11

Reply #9 –

"Service Bulletin Number

Date


3810340 04-DEC-2009






















































































































































































Cummins Inc.
Service Bulletin
 

Cummins® Engine Oil and Oil Analysis Recommendations

The sample to be used for analysis must be representative of the oil in the engine. Use the following guidelines when collecting oil samples:
•Bring the engine to operating temperature prior to sampling. This will make sure representative contaminant levels are in the sampled increment.
•Successive samples must be taken in the same manner and from the same location.
•Take the oil sample before adding any new oil to the engine.
•Always collect the oil in a clean, dry container.
•Collect a minimum of 118 ml [4 oz] of oil.

Two methods can be used to collect oil samples:
1.The recommended method for collecting an oil sample is to take the sample from a pressurized port while the engine is idling and warm. This method makes sure the oil sample is not stagnant and represents the actual homogeneous oil mixture that is flowing through the engine.
a.Clean the outside of the valve by wiping with a clean, dry cloth.
b.Idle the engine and bring to a warm temperature.
c.Purge the sample fitting by allowing a small amount of oil to flow through the valve.
d.Collect the sample into a clean, dry bottle from the oil stream being pumped by the engine.

NOTE: A recommended location for sampling is a port that allows pre-filtered oil to be collected. See the Operation and Maintenance Manual for component locations.
1.In cases where the engine is not operational, an alternative method can be used. This method uses a vacuum to draw the sample out of the oil sump. The sample should be obtained as soon after stopping the engine as possible so the oil is still warm and stratification has not occurred.
a.Use the dipstick to determine the oil level in the pan.
b.Hold a new, clean piece of tubing against the dipstick and mark on the tube the location where the dipstick seats.
c.Cut the tubing so it reaches 25 to 50 mm [1 to 2 inches] below the oil level in the pan.
d.Insert the tubing into the dipstick tube so that the mark previously made on the tubing is aligned with the top of the opening for the dipstick tube.
e.Use a hand operated vacuum pump to pump the sample into a clean, dry bottle.

NOTE: Do not allow the tube to draw oil from the bottom of the oil pan because excess debris will be included and will cause an incorrect oil analysis. Do not reuse the sampling tube."

I have no idea where the "port" described above as best option is located or how to use it.
Mike & Molly Patronick
2001 U320 40'
2011 Forester

Re: Problem Sampling Crankcase Oil from M11

Reply #10 –
Regarding the service bulletin, I use the Centinel system.  I've used it for four years and am very happy with it.
Regards,
Brett

'99 42' Foretravel Xtreme
'14 Brown Motorsports Stacker
'05 Chevy SSR
'02 BMW R1150R

Re: Problem Sampling Crankcase Oil from M11

Reply #11 –
Brett,

Once the Centinal system is installed, what do you have to do with any regularity?

best, paul
1999 U320 40' 1200 watts on roof. 12cf AC/DC Cold plate fridge/freezer. VMS 240 CL Honda Element

Re: Problem Sampling Crankcase Oil from M11

Reply #12 –
Paul,

Other than add fresh oil to the supply tank, I have to run an "extended drain" oil analysis every 37,500 miles, change the special dual full flow/bypass oil filter every 75,000 miles, and do a completer oil change every 300,000 miles.  Its operation has been flawless.
Regards,
Brett

'99 42' Foretravel Xtreme
'14 Brown Motorsports Stacker
'05 Chevy SSR
'02 BMW R1150R

Re: Problem Sampling Crankcase Oil from M11

Reply #13 –
I talked to Blackstone Labs.  They said that the M11, and I gather some other Cummins, has (all M11s?) a dipstick tube that narrows, that is why it is hard to get the regular nylon tubing to the engine.

They are sending me tubing specific for a Cummins.

They said it would be fine to tell you of the tubing need (I told them I was hesitant to do so until I tried it!).  So be forewarned, I have not tried it....am awaiting special delivery shipping.  Got nice apology.  She said to call this number if you need the special tubing.....260-744-2380

Have a blessed and great week.  (Yeah, 50 degrees this a.m. in Nacogdoches),
Mike
Mike
2001 U320 4010 Build 5878 (Gus)
Wrangle Unlimited Toad
Nacogdoches
 

Re: Problem Sampling Crankcase Oil from M11

Reply #14 –
My OPS oil purification system has a pressurized push button sampling port, makes it very easy and clean to get a sample. Polaris labs have them for sale.
Bill ^.^d ^.^d
Wild Bill Colston
1997 Class A Towing 2016 ford F150 XLT extended cab with Golf cart in 8 ft bed or a 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee
Retired Aircraft Maint Tech A&P Line Crew Chief
Pilots lisc--------Commercial and Multi Eng