Strange 110 volt electrical program

Topic: Strange 110 volt electrical program (Read 1096 times) previous topic - next topic

Strange 110 volt electrical program

October 12, 2013, 09:36:32 pm

Interesting day. This is a bit of a "shaggy dog" story, but bear with me. I don't want to leave anything out that may be significant.

Issue 1..... high voltage. We stayed at Parker's Crossroads RV Park in Yuma, TN last night. Not a bad park, but the voltage was high. Most of the night, both legs were at 130 volts. By the time we left the park this morning it was down to 127 volts. I would imagine that drop was due to increased electrical use in the park.

Issue 2....no power from the pedestal. Today we drove to Delta Ridge RV Park in Forrest City, AR. We planned to spend the night there, but when I tried to connect to the 110 volt pedestal.... nothing. The Progressive Industries box showed normal voltages and no error code. It clicked on as usual after 2+ minutes, but there was no power in the coach. When I checked the built in surge protector in the electronics bay, neither of the two green lights were lit. I tried the 30 amp pedestal plug....same, nothing. Tried another pedestal.... it worked, but only for about 5 minutes. Then it went out and did not come back on. Tried the generator, normal power to the coach.

Issue 3..... power comes on, but cuts out. We decided not to stay at Delta Ridge and drove on to Shady Pines in Texarkana, AR (nice place!). The Progressive Industries box give normal readings (voltage 125, no error codes). After the usual 2+ plus delay, the PI box clicked and power came on in the coach. Everything was normal for about 30 min. The rear AC unit was on and when the front AC unit tried to come on, the power clicked on and off several times. Pat shut off the AC units at the thermostat and then the power stayed on. Running only the front AC unit did not cause any additional problems.

So what is going on?

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #1 – October 12, 2013, 09:47:38 pm

Not knowing exactly how your '03 differs from my '02, I'd wonder about the transfer switch (the first one) that transfers between the generator and shore power. Just a wild stab, but if some of the contacts there were problematic, I could imagine symptoms like you describe.

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #2 – October 13, 2013, 06:30:49 am

Thanks Brad. The more I read (here and on other RV forums) the more it sounds like a transfer switch issue.

Question....Does the same switch select between all three sources of 110v power.....shore/inverter/generator?

George

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #3 – October 13, 2013, 07:03:50 am

George,
Just spent the day yesterday checking the same sort of symptoms out on our coach!
2003- U320
Had done the monthly run and gen check and when I plugged it back in the switch would not transfer. Checked all I could then went to the Barry Beam web site to RV tech help, then to transfer switch. Foretravel Motorhome technical help and information links
Looks like the problem could have been the Surge Protector! The orange relay in the transfer switch box. It has a wire tie on it but mine seemed to push back in just a tad when I pushed on it. Plugged the coach back in and after what seemed like for ever it snapped on. Also Barry's site has a good wright up on how to deal with the relay if it is truly bad.
Not completely sure this is the same problem as yours but with the dropping out of the switch it might be as voltage low or high will affect the relay. Also in the article is a good adjustment suggestion.

Best of luck to you.

Barry & Donna
The Diversified VBA-120-ALA relay can be found on Ebay best price I found was I believe $89.00. Diversified VBA-120-ALA relay | eBay

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #4 – October 13, 2013, 09:28:14 am

Not on mine. One shore/ Genny, one inveter

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #5 – October 13, 2013, 10:02:43 am

Quote from: George Hatfield – October 13, 2013, 06:30:49 am

Question....Does the same switch select between all three sources of 110v power.....shore/inverter/generator?

On our '03, there is one transfer switch which selects between Generator and Shore inputs (shore input has the over/under voltage and surge protection on it). Its output feeds the main breaker box at the foot of the bed.

For the 110v circuits controlled by the inverter, there is an output from the main breaker box as one input to a second transfer switch and the output of the inverter as the second. The output of this second transfer switch goes to the secondary breaker box at the foot of the bed.

Do you have drawing A2700.<something> in your schematics? It should show how this all is wired. Here is ours.

The selected media item is not currently available.

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #6 – October 13, 2013, 11:06:55 am

Michelle... thanks for the diagram. I found the same diagram in our coach manual. And I found the transfer box for the inverter at the foot of the bed (Maverick MTS) (see photo). The main one is in what I call the "electronics bay" (see photo). Both were made by Maverick and have their Texas flag label on the boxes.

From the wiring diagram it looks like the surge protector only affects the shore power system. But when I turned on the generator yesterday, both green lights on the surge protector came on (see photo). Make sense?

Also, it looks like the onboard surge protector comes before the transfer switch (i.e., shore power source->surge protector->transfer switch). Correct? If so, maybe the fault was in this unit.

Finally, it appears that the generator has priority, that is, the transfer switch's default position is to have the breakers closed for the generator. Is that correct? One piece of info that I didn't include in my "shaggy dog" story is that we were running the generator for lunch at a truck stop just over the Mississippi yesterday when we got a very close lightning strike... flash/boom with very little separation. I wonder if the EMP from the strike could have affected the relays?

Dick has a good discussion of trouble shooting the main transfer switch here:

The selected media item is not currently available.

Thanks to all that responded both here and via email and PMs!

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #7 – October 13, 2013, 12:35:07 pm

My '02 has a different manufacturer (LYGHT), but both of my transfer boxes are the same. '03 was the first year FT added onboard power protection, and I am not sure whether it would come before or after the initial Gen/shore transfer.

I would think putting the FT-added power protection between the pedestal input and the transfer switch would be the safest for the transfer switch (and presume no electrical fault would emanate from the generator), but putting it after the transfer switch would be safest for the coach should the generator send on some errant voltage.

I'm betting the former is the case rather than the latter, but if it isn't in the diagram, only a physical examination would tell you for sure.

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #8 – October 13, 2013, 05:11:50 pm

All is well. We are sitting in the FT parking lot (there are 21 coaches here!) and everything is working as it should be. I watched the switch close when the shore power came on.... very obvious.

Hate these problems that heal themselves. Well, it did save me a trip to the FT service writer. I may talk to one tomorrow, but I'm not sure there is anything they can actually check if it is not acting up. Maybe it was the park we were in. Maybe it was the lightning strike! Who knows.

I took the cover off the main transfer switch. See that attached pic. Hopefully it is labeled correctly. The green lights are powered by wires coming off the generator switch, but I assume they are common to the shore side too. Thus they light whenever there is power coming out of the transfer switch to the house. However, the hi/low voltage protection module (orange module) appears to be only wired to the shore power side and not the generator, which makes sense.

George

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #9 – October 13, 2013, 05:24:45 pm

Quote from: George Hatfield – October 13, 2013, 05:11:50 pm

All is well. We are sitting in the FT parking lot (there are 21 coaches here!) and everything is working as it should be. I watched the switch close when the shore power came on.... very obvious.

Hate these problems that heal themselves.

"For kicks and giggles", and when not plugged in or running the genset, it never hurts to check the connections at all the lugs of the transfer switch and the shoreline, including the plug. It could have been an issue at the parks, but it could also be a weak connection on the shore side of things within the coach, especially when the Progressive passed things OK.

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #10 – October 13, 2013, 07:12:26 pm

IF I had that ATS setup, it would have been gone soon after purchasing the coach, replacing with a simpler/less costly/easier to trouble shoot.

From my experience with such arrangements have been a source of problems in my world.
That Orange Voltage sensor is also a problem issue, would order a spare from WW Granger or AlliedRadio. They come in different voltages, time delays and socket configurations, most likely an octal socket. I would not be slightly surprised if it was the problem, either way you need a spare. Have replaced a few of them in low budget home brew controls. Neat when they work.

See if this comes up;
SCHNEIDER ELECTRIC Relay, Time Delay, DPDT, 8 Pins, Repeat - Time Delay Relays -
Just an example of what is available.
This style comes in many versions, voltage sensors etc...

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #11 – October 14, 2013, 07:32:10 am

I had an intermittent issue and it was partially loose connection on the back side of the surge guard.

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #12 – October 14, 2013, 08:36:10 am

John.... could you be more specific? Are you talking about the Progressive Industries unit? If so, I have the portable unit. Is your unit wired in?

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #13 – October 14, 2013, 02:16:56 pm

Checked on the price of the "orange module" in the main transfer switch box. This checks the voltage at the pedestal and according to Barry's site, it has gone bad for at least one other coach. FOT has two in stock....$265. I passed. Thought I might get a spare, just in case. We are now at Xtreme getting some work done and everything is 100% normal shore power-wise. Talked to a couple of service writers at FOT... both though it was probably the park and not the coach. Lets hope so. Oh well, know a lot more about the transfer switch system now!

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #14 – October 14, 2013, 08:11:50 pm

Since you already have your added protection in the form of the Progressive Industries box, that "orange block would just be redundant and unnecessary checking. The PI box will keep the garbage from getting in. I'd pass too.

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #15 – October 14, 2013, 09:02:36 pm

Brad.....I agree, the "orange module" is a bit redundant, but if it goes out, the shore power system will not work. There is however, on Barry's site, directions on how to wire around it when it fails.

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #16 – October 15, 2013, 09:01:08 am

Mine was hard wired in. One of the lugs was loose, so I tightened it up. Had one get loose on a transfer switch in my old coach.

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #17 – October 15, 2013, 05:10:41 pm

I got the part number and manufacturer of the 'orange module" in the transfer switch box from FOT. According to our coach manual it monitors the voltage to make sure it is not too high or low. I wondered if it did more.

Diversified Electronics VBA120ALA

I have attached the data sheet that I found online. According to it, the module only monitors the voltage.

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #18 – October 15, 2013, 08:45:03 pm

They are available around $125.00 - $135.00 lots of places.

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Strange 110 volt electrical program

October 12, 2013, 09:36:32 pm

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #1 – October 12, 2013, 09:47:38 pm

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #2 – October 13, 2013, 06:30:49 am

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #3 – October 13, 2013, 07:03:50 am

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #4 – October 13, 2013, 09:28:14 am

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #5 – October 13, 2013, 10:02:43 am

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #6 – October 13, 2013, 11:06:55 am

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #7 – October 13, 2013, 12:35:07 pm

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #8 – October 13, 2013, 05:11:50 pm

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #9 – October 13, 2013, 05:24:45 pm

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #10 – October 13, 2013, 07:12:26 pm

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #11 – October 14, 2013, 07:32:10 am

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #12 – October 14, 2013, 08:36:10 am

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #13 – October 14, 2013, 02:16:56 pm

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #14 – October 14, 2013, 08:11:50 pm

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #15 – October 14, 2013, 09:02:36 pm

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #16 – October 15, 2013, 09:01:08 am

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #17 – October 15, 2013, 05:10:41 pm

Re: Strange 110 volt electrical program

Reply #18 – October 15, 2013, 08:45:03 pm

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