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Re: battery desulfator?

Reply #25 – October 04, 2013, 07:01:10 pm

A saturated solution of Magnesium Sulfate added to a sulfated (wet/flooded) cell battery (that is not shorted or has issues with internal wiring) has been know to "bring back the dead" (if you have the time.) 
Check YouTube;  there are a number of presentations that will forward the process of de-sulfating wet cell batteries. 

Also; if you have wet/flooded cell batteries, mineral oil does an excellent job of controlling gassing.  Just enough to cover the acid level is all you need. 
 
Gel & AGM, being sealed are not a player in any of this scenario. 
Deep Cycle batteries have thicker plates than CCA batteries (you bet there is a big design difference.)  Whomever noted all batteries are the same is full of it BTW.

Keep in mind, nothing will fix a shorted battery (it is junk). 
If your battery is swollen, it is junk.

I prefer the INTERACTER PS12/10 (est. @ $150), this is not your fathers charger and will keep your batteries in top condition (and is a great deal cheaper than the newer Hi-Dollar Chargers.)

BTW; Trojan Batteries (flooded) deep cycle batteries, like to have their batteries charged at 14.8V (if you have them).

IMO PC

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Re: battery desulfator?

Reply #26 – October 04, 2013, 10:31:16 pm

The battery dude did say that deep cycle batteries have thicker plates, but he told me all 8D batteries have thicker plates because they're specifically designed to be big rig diesel batteries. He said there's a difference between deep cycle and cranking batteries in the smaller size batteries designed for automotive use, size 27, 24, and smaller, that normally have thin plates. I was really surprised by what he told me and I asked him again just to be sure I understood correctly. I have no idea if what he told me is true, but he has no incentive to lie to me because the deep cycle batteries cost a lot more and he should want to sell me the much more expensive deep cycle batteries... I'm gonna see if I can find a deep cycle 8D in stock somewhere and look down inside the cells to visually compare the thickness of the plates with a cranking 8D.

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Re: battery desulfator?

Reply #27 – October 05, 2013, 09:22:34 pm

The battery company in Florida that's having a sale on 8D AGM batteries right now for $250 is:

Electro Battery Inc.
St. Petersburg, FL.

(727) 491-7636

...cuz somebuddy asked

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Re: battery desulfator?

Reply #28 – October 06, 2013, 12:08:10 pm

I would be very suspicious of someone selling 8DAGM's at less than half the normal price.  If its to good to be true, it probably is.
Gary B

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Re: battery desulfator?

Reply #29 – October 06, 2013, 04:36:08 pm

I did a little more internet research on 8D batteries and deep cycle batteries today and learned that the battery dude is probably correct when he says all 8D batteries have thicker plates and are considered deep cycle. There's a huge difference between a cranking battery and a deep cycle battery in automotive sizes though. Almost everything I found on the internet about deep cycle batteries was discussing the automotive size batteries. When I ignore the stuff about automotive sizes and focus only on the 8D batteries it's obvious that the 8D plates are much thicker, even thicker than some automotive deep cycle batteries. The typical automotive cranking battery has lead plates that are .040" thick, deep cycle batteries usually have lead plates that are about .090" or thicker, golf cart batteries have lead plates that are .070-.110", and 8D batteries have lead plates that are .080-.125" thick. There's not much difference between a cranking 8D and a deep cycle 8D in the performance figures as near as I can tell. Certainly not enough to justify the huge difference in price. One manufacturer even revealed this by listing both types of 8D side by side, including the thickness of the lead plates in each. The thickness of the lead plates isn't the only factor that makes a battery deep cycle, but it's the most important factor. The 8D batteries are a lot different than the automotive sizes that almost all RV people state figures for, so if you're using 8D batteries forget all that stuff and start over with an open mind. Go ahead and do some research for yourself, especially if you're buying new 8D batteries soon.

I found this interesting statement on a battery website:

"To enable deep discharges, the plates must be made thicker and the insulating separators made from more expensive materials than the paper used in starting batteries. Thicker, but fewer plates means that the battery won't sustain as high a rate of current, but will permit deeper discharges without imminent failure. Golf cart batteries and heavy duty 8D units are thus designed with the purpose of supplying moderate currents for sustained periods. They aren't a true deep cycle battery, however, and should be charged soon after any extensive discharge."

This battery manufacturer even revealed the plate thickness and performance figures of their cranking 8D and deep cycle 8D side by side for comparison:

http://www.dynobattery.com/Spec8D.pdf

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Re: battery desulfator?

Reply #30 – October 07, 2013, 02:24:46 pm

My Wizbang Plus BD-12 battery desulfonator just showed up in today's mail and I installed it immediately. It cost $20 total with first class US Mail shipping included from eBay. The device says it will work on either a 6 or 12 volt battery. It's just a little plastic box with a green LED on the end of it. You connect the black wire to the battery's negative post and the red wire to the positive. There are loop connectors already crimped on the end of the wires. The green LED lights up immediately and the box starts making a whining noise... which I presume is normal but do any of you know for sure if it is? ...The instruction sticker on the device says if the green LED is lit the device is working properly. The sticker also says it takes about 4-6 weeks for the device to desulfonate the battery. If it hasn't had any effect on the battery by then I'll probably move it to the other coach battery just to see if it helps that one. If it doesn't help either of the coach batteries I'll buy a new battery and put the desulfonator on the cranking battery, which is the same exact model and age as the other two batteries, which is to say it's less than two years old... so stay tuned and if anyone seems interested I'll write a review of my findings. Hey, for $20 it'll be a cheap education if it doesn't work right?

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Re: battery desulfator?

Reply #31 – October 07, 2013, 04:21:28 pm

Scott,

I put three of them on, whine is normal.

On 8 d it may take a year to do all it can do on a battery. Don't expect overnight results, may need to acquire a couple more and just let them work

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Re: battery desulfator?

Reply #32 – October 07, 2013, 05:22:17 pm

I'm here in St. Pete, Fl...and called Electro Battery(local).  Price on 8D Automotive post AGM batteries are Deka's (by East Penn) $350 ea. they offered 5% off for 4.

From my past thoughts, East Penn private labels the same batteries for many companies. ....West Marine, Meka, Deka, etc.

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Re: battery desulfator?

Reply #33 – October 07, 2013, 05:32:12 pm

FT believes in East Penn enough to invite them to speak at the GV, was a good discussion (Except where the sales guy says he has never heard of Desulfators). I assume FT uses who they think are the best, and they must use East Penn for OEM, or they wouldn't have had them speak at the GV.

I specifically asked re Private Label - and the sales guy mentioned NAPA, and said "others".

Sounds like a pretty good price for a quality battery.

Dave Metzger gets a better price, but buys a zillion of them for his business.

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Re: battery desulfator?

Reply #34 – October 07, 2013, 07:55:51 pm

Hi Tim,  From my past info, East Penn might be the biggest mfgr. of batteries in the U.S.
They have been around forever and built the original Sonnenshien batts for German mfgr of Gells..  However. nothing but good reports from me and I have called their tech support several times.  Good staff!

Lifeline?  Concord?  I used Lifeline once with wonderful customer service, but poor battery life..  Who knows..

I'm going to stick with East Penn and price shop if and when.  Now have 3 of 4, - 8 yr. old 8D gells in my boat with solid performance/ one dropped out 3 yrs ago.

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Re: battery desulfator?

Reply #35 – October 09, 2013, 08:29:25 pm

I had breakfast with the East Penn speaker.  Johnson Controls is the country's largest battery manufacturer, with half of production going to Walmart!  East Penn makes Interstate batteries, plus many other brands.

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Re: battery desulfator?

Reply #36 – October 15, 2013, 08:42:47 pm

I took my coach out for a drive today. The desulfator has been on the battery for a week. I saw very little improvement so far. The sticker says it takes 4-6 weeks for the battery to recover so I know it's way premature at this point. On a positive note I landed a job today and I start work in the morning ...and they've got a pretty nice campground right in their backyard so I can walk to work!

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Re: battery desulfator?

Reply #37 – October 15, 2013, 09:27:05 pm

Yea Scott !!!!

Congrats a bunch and all the best.

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Re: battery desulfator?

Reply #38 – November 14, 2013, 03:46:53 pm

Monday will be 6 weeks that my desulfator has been on the "good" battery but it's still not able to maintain more than about 12.1 volts, so I think I'm gonna replace the batteries. I was calling around and discovered that Parts Plus will sell me an 8D made by East Penn rated at 1100 CCA with 325 reserve capacity for $144.10 plus tax. There's a $64 core charge, which is more than the $45 per battery I'd get if I sold them at the salvage yard. I was considering selling one battery at the salvage yard while using the other battery for the core charge and only buying one coach battery instead of the two batteries in parallel that I have now. I noticed that the batteries aren't secured inside the battery box. Will two batteries move around inside the battery box when I'm driving down the road? The battery box is sized to hold 3 batteries... This appears to be an awesome price for 8D batteries so maybe I should just buy two of them and hope I never get another shorted cell... decisions decisions

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Re: battery desulfator?

Reply #39 – November 14, 2013, 04:32:40 pm

Hi Scott,

I'd like to know where you are getting them at that price. $144 is an unbelievably low price for 8Ds, even for AGMs (Gels usually are more). Most current prices run in the range of $450 to $575 delivered to a store, without core exchange. Are you sure they are 8Ds, your price might be for 4Ds. Regular maintenance free batteries would be a lot cheaper.

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Re: battery desulfator?

Reply #40 – November 14, 2013, 04:55:53 pm

They're not AGM, they're ordinary lead acid batteries. My price shopping has revealed that AGM batteries cost twice as much to four times as much but only provide less than twice as much reserve capacity as ordinary batteries... so I dunno that I can justify buying AGM batteries.

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