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Topic: Rig search update and advice on Qs to ask surveyor? (Read 1288 times) previous topic - next topic

Rig search update and advice on Qs to ask surveyor?

Hey all!

Welp, we're still down here in Texas.  LOVE Austin by the way, though not so fond of Dallas. :P

We looked at a 1998(9?) u320 4200 Thursday and then headed down to Austin for the weekend while we did some homework regarding repairs/upgrades at FOT and talked over the rigs we've seen this week.

Option 1 aka "Scarlett" so named by Susan and our daughter:

The front runner to date had been a HEAVILY updated 1997 u320 40' with high milage (almost 200k) that's in really great shape.  Asking price $72k at MOT.

Major pluses:

1. Full body paint (though I'm pretty sure there are still decals).
2. Immaculate inside.
3. Washer/Dryer stack.
4. New tile floors from entry to kitchen, then hardwood to bedroom.
5. Entire curb side back to buffet is totally empty so we can build it out to suit.
6. MASSIVE storage in the kitchen, best implementation we've seen.
7. Headlight conversion.
8. Taillight conversion.
9. Slide out two step modification.

Minuses:

Umm... High milage. 
Needs new tires and air bags otherwise it's pretty turn-key.

Option 2:

1998(9?) u320 4200 42' tag axle with about 89K miles, negotiated to $63,500 based on repairs/updates to get it roughly comparable with the 97.

Major pluses:

1. MASSIVE closet in the back that gives us room to build out a full bore home office.
2. Bed is NOT on top of diesel hump so it can be changed to a Bed -> Desk or other converting solution for added functionality.
3. Tag Axle.  My understanding is that this rig will have much improved cargo and towing capability over the 97.
4. Full body paint in a nice clean grey with Foretravel logo and single tasteful stripe. No decals.
5. Headlight conversion.
6. New rubber roof in 2010.
7. New Girard awning in 2010.
8. 6 New tires in 2010.
9. 2 new Tag axle tires in 2013.
10. Really nice mosaic backsplash in kitchen and bath.
All upgrades performed by FOT.
 
Minuses:

1. Staining on headliner in several locations that may indicate leakage coming from through mounts (A/C units etc) in several places.  Unclear if it's new damage since the roof work or not.
2. Susan and Elizabeth really dislike the dark brown carpet and several other interior design issues.
3. The floor plan has no door between bath and bedroom, and going full time with teen/tween that's really something that we have to change, so we're looking at a major renovation there.
4. Major crack in passenger windshield, needs to be replaced.
5. Seriously limited storage in kitchen other than the Washer/Dryer cabinet that's been converted to huge pullout drawers, which isn't a bad solution but means a washer/dryer would need to go in the back.
6. Aquahot burner needs to be replaced.
7. 3-4 windows have major seal creep and need to be replaced.
8. Water staining spots under a few windows that may have been from weeping or from just having the windows open during rain.
9. Misc wear and tear issues (the owner has young kids is our guess).
10. Refrigerator looks original and almost certainly needs to be replaced.
11. Microwave door is cracked and needs to be replaced.

Everyone else loves "Scarlett" and voted to buy it and hit the road.  I think the potential of the 4200 is just too good to pass up, especially at a price that makes it feasible to do a pretty major renovation pass to make it our dream RV.  I swapped emails with the owner (really great person), and he lowered his asking price to the $63,500.  So we've agreed to bring in a surveyor tomorrow and I'll tag along with him while he goes over the whole rig (4 hours).

So...

What do you all think? Well updated turn-key 97 "Scarlett" or still a u320 (and all that provides) 98(9?) 4200?

And given the fact that I'll be spending hours with an expert tomorrow, does anyone have any advice for things to ask etc?


Speaking of the surveyor, does anyone know anything about Ed Baugh from RV Survey.com? :)

Wish us luck on the survey tomorrow!

James and Susan
James & Susan
Alex & Elizabeth
Tortie and Gigi ( the "Bird TV" cats )
1998 U320 42' Build 5298

Re: Rig search update and advice on Qs to ask surveyor?

Reply #1 –
Quote from: Tigratrus –
The front runner to date had been a HEAVILY updated 1997 u320 40' with high milage (almost 200k)

200K is definitely not high mileage on an engine/transmission designed to go a million.


Quote
6. New rubber roof in 2010.

FTs do not have rubber roofs.  They have fiberglass.  Why is there a rubber roof, or is there something different there?  Your comment about water stains has me wondering if someone tried to "patch" things....

Quote
8. 6 New tires in 2010.

So they are no longer new and you will be looking at 6 tires either next year or the year after.  Tires age-out, not wear out.  Did you verify the DOT codes on the tires?  Usually you need to look at replacement around the 5-6 year mark FROM THE DOT CODE, not the installation date.
Quote

3. The floor plan has no door between bath and bedroom, and going full time with teen/tween that's really something that we have to change, so we're looking at a major renovation there.

Not even a pocket door? 

Quote
6. Aquahot burner needs to be replaced.

Have Rudy look at the Aquahot first.  It may be more than a burner (or it could be less).  If more than a burner, and if you're looking at a reman'd AH, you're looking at thousands of dollars.

Quote
10. Refrigerator looks original and almost certainly needs to be replaced.
11. Microwave door is cracked and needs to be replaced.

You're better off going residential on the fridge, especially with a family.  The microwave should just be replaced as well.  The door will likely cost you close to the price of an entire new unit, and the current one is pretty much near the end of its lifespan.

Quote
Speaking of the surveyor, does anyone know anything about Ed Baugh from RV Survey.com? :)

Nope, but on any coach, ESPECIALLY a Foretravel, I would strongly recommend Brett Wolfe over anyone else.  Unless of course Brett wasn't available and gave you Ed's name.  Do you know how familiar he is with diesel engines, Meritor brakes, and Foretravel bulkheads?

ETA do not rush into a purchase.  Make sure you do due diligence on research, inspection, service records, etc.  There are fewer FTs in existence than many of another brand's models, but don't feel like you have to buy the first coach you see.  A little waiting for something that fits/inspects better will save you a lot of money and frustration in the long run.
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Rig search update and advice on Qs to ask surveyor?

Reply #2 –
I agree with Michele on all points. I would rather have a coach regularly used than one that has spent more time setting than traveling. Most of the heavy duty items on a Foretravel time out before they wear out.

Re: rubber roof - Foretravel described their roof coating as "A Rubber Roof" although it is just an elastomeric coating. Most roofs leak eventually so water stains don't worry me too much because the leaks can can usually be easily repaired. Rotted wood worries my a lot.

Good Luck!!!
The selected media item is not currently available.Kent Speers
Locust Grove, OK
1993 U300 SSE 40' (Restored at FOT 2009) Build 4323
720 watts Solar
6V92TA DDEC Silver Engine
2014 Subaru Outback

Re: Rig search update and advice on Qs to ask surveyor?

Reply #3 –
you need to check the weights of both coaches and compare to their GVWR's.  I would guess the 42' would have 3.5 tons more carrying capacity.
Regards,
Brett

'99 42' Foretravel Xtreme
'14 Brown Motorsports Stacker
'05 Chevy SSR
'02 BMW R1150R

Re: Rig search update and advice on Qs to ask surveyor?

Reply #4 –
"Scarlett" sounds good to me and I would seriously consider it. However, I personally wouldn't pay over $55k for it. The "high" mileage wouldn't concern me at all, and the tires and air bags are easily replaced items.

The second coach concerns me in several respects, and I wouldn't want to purchase it. Too many known issues and questions.

Our 1995 U320 had over 150,000 miles on it when we purchased it almost two years ago, and we've had zero issues with the drivetrain and suspension. I fully expect that I will "wear out" before it does!
David and Carolyn Osborn
1995 U320C SE 40' Build 4726 Feb 1995
FMCA 147762
Motorcade 17186

Re: Rig search update and advice on Qs to ask surveyor?

Reply #5 –
MOT is a good company to buy from.  Bought one coach there several years ago.  You can buy a coach and spend a lot of money getting it the way you want it for your use.  I have the 02/40ft coach with no tag.  Takes more turning around room than a 36 but is fine once you have driven and made turn arounds.  Just do not plan on turning around in any fast food parking lots.  I would get the most recent year my money could buy.  Everyyear there are little improvements; however, some improvements may not appeal to you.  I prefer the ducted air.  I also prefer a slide. (some don't)
Does MOT own the coach or is it a consignment.  If it is theirs, they may work with you on upgrades and price.  Always spend the night or two in the coach before buying if you can.  Little things only show up with use, but little things could lead to larger items. Also when looking I find myself overlooking somethings while I am admiring others. Good Luck. DAN     
Dan & Shirley Stansel
2002 U295 4020 AGDS Build#6054
Towing Buick Enclave & M &  G Braking
Emerald Bay, Lake Palestine, Texas
MC# 16650

Re: Rig search update and advice on Qs to ask surveyor?

Reply #6 –
If the coach shows water stains both below the windows and from roof leaks, beware!  The glues used in the lamination process are not waterproof, and delamination can follow.  The roof can be repaired, but it isn't cheap.  The roof consist of aluminum framing laminated with a foam layer as thick as the frames, followed by a plywood layer laminated to the fiberglass outer skin.  The lamination process is a vacuum bag process.  If the roof has soft spots, damage has occurred.  Walk the roof and look for soft spots.  Foretravel can make it like new again, however, if wood and foam damage have occurred, you can expect to spend about $6K per 10 ft of linear roof for the repairs.  They can repair it where damaged, the entire roof does not have to be replaced.
Current coach 1996 U320 40'
Previous coach, 1990 36' U280

Re: Rig search update and advice on Qs to ask surveyor?

Reply #7 –
GREAT responses, much appreciated.  The roof is my biggest concern personally, and I'll make sure to talk to the surveyor about it extensively today.  FOT DID do the new roof work (and yet, it's fiberglass and it seemed solid when I walked on it) in 2010, so the big question is if the staining is new or left over from leaks pre-repair.

Headed out to meet the surveyor now... Thanks, and wish me luck! :-)

James

James & Susan
Alex & Elizabeth
Tortie and Gigi ( the "Bird TV" cats )
1998 U320 42' Build 5298

Re: Rig search update and advice on Qs to ask surveyor?

Reply #8 –
Survey went very well.  The staining appears to be just dirt/schmutz from dirty A/C filters. :-) 

We did find one area of actual water staining in the very front where water has seeped into the front cap (surveyor thought it was probably from the front top lights ((row of orange lights right above the windshields?)) needing to be sealed) that made it clear what water staining looks like on that headliner.  Nothing else like it in the coach, so the actual roof was good.

Fridge was NOT working in gas mode, but seemed to be fine in A/C mode so it may just need service (or not).  In general the coach was in excellent shape. Needs new tires. Air bags will need to be replaced when they actually start to leak, but they seem good for now. Engine was good, and the coach drove fine.

My wife Susan had a great idea for the bedroom remodel.  Instead of adding a bulkhead and jumping through hoops to make the huge rear closet work, we can just change the bed from an East/West to a traditional Foretravel North/South and we'd have MASSIVE amounts of space forward of the bed.  If we use that a bit like a DGFE floorplan but with a door and add soundproofing in strategic areas we can get the best of all worlds with minimal totally custom work.  Susan's got a sketch of what we're thinking of, but it was enough to make all the pieces snap into place.  We accepted the owner's latest offer (take possession MONDAY!) and he's being good enough to take the rig up to Nacogdoches so we can put new tires on it and get it over to David at FOT to estimate/schedule the remodel.

Now we just need to learn how to DRIVE a 42' bloody great beast! :-) 
Contacted one of the RV driving schools, but no response yet.  Worst case scenario we spend some time over in Nacogdoches in empty parking lots practicing turns and backing up until we feel comfortable(ish).  Susan's thinking we might hang out in Nacogdoches and start driving back on thanksgiving when the roads are almost empty. :P

Anyone on the road from back from there to Virginia that we can hit up for some lessons learned and insight into Foretravel peculiarities that might not be obvious for folks new to RVs? :-)

James and Susan

 
James & Susan
Alex & Elizabeth
Tortie and Gigi ( the "Bird TV" cats )
1998 U320 42' Build 5298

Re: Rig search update and advice on Qs to ask surveyor?

Reply #9 –

  Hi James,
    Great news on your Foretravel purchase.  Have a safe trip home and any questions
    ask away.  Now you and your family will have a memorable Thanksgiving in your new
    coach.
                        Safe Travels--Jim
Jim & Doreen
2003 U320

 "Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day, rarely of what they had seen"
― Louis L'Amour

Re: Rig search update and advice on Qs to ask surveyor?

Reply #10 –
Congratulations! Now you can update your signature and start posting pictures. Remember that we've all been first-time owners with lots of questions, so ask away.

Re: Rig search update and advice on Qs to ask surveyor?

Reply #11 –
Thanks!

I'm sure there will be more than a few questions.  We're planning to buy a lable maker before we go over systems with the owner so we can print out shorthand notes next to the more obscure (to us) controls etc.  If he doesn't mind, we'll probably video some of the discussions too so we can replay them to refresh overloaded memories. :p

I'll work on getting some pictures uploaded, more familiar with vBulletin and IPB than SMF.  I'll attach the initial pre-visit picture that started us looking at this coach.

James and Susan
James & Susan
Alex & Elizabeth
Tortie and Gigi ( the "Bird TV" cats )
1998 U320 42' Build 5298

Re: Rig search update and advice on Qs to ask surveyor?

Reply #12 –
On that front cap water leak---- it usually does come from the clearance lights.  If enough water gets in, you can have the glue between the front cap and the two plywood bulkheads come loose.  You can check this by pushing on the front cap just below the windshield.  If you can push it in, the glue has failed.  If you have this problem, let me know, I have a simple and inexpensive fix that you can do yourself.
Current coach 1996 U320 40'
Previous coach, 1990 36' U280

Re: Rig search update and advice on Qs to ask surveyor?

Reply #13 –
James & Susan, Oy Vey, not schmutz !!

Re: Rig search update and advice on Qs to ask surveyor?

Reply #14 –
Mazel Tov on your new coach.  I was wondering, you got that from MOT, right?  I was curious because I hadn't seen that one online.  Had they not posted it yet?  Best of luck with your new ride. I'm sure you're going to have loads of fun!

Rich
Used to be 40' U300 1992 Build # 4087

Re: Rig search update and advice on Qs to ask surveyor?

Reply #15 –
Are you sure it was schmutz and not cruft?
"Not so  long ago we were a nation of risk takers, riding five million pounds of  thrust straight into space."  Joe Gresh
Chuck Pearson
1996 U295
2018 Can Am X3 TurboRS

Re: Rig search update and advice on Qs to ask surveyor?

Reply #16 –
Sorry for the long delay.  Yes, according to Susan it's "schmutz" ;) Running joke since her mom is from flushing and sometimes speaks with a deliberately exaggerated accent.

The Shadow Beast (originally just "Shadow" but after a few days of driving Beast really seemed needed) was from a private seller in Belton Texas not from MOT.  We understand it was originally owned by the Fulmers. Needs some work done, but we're very happy with our choice.  I'll start a thread about our inaugural journey later, but have to go help with dinner prep here at the KOA in Natural Bridge Va.

James
James & Susan
Alex & Elizabeth
Tortie and Gigi ( the "Bird TV" cats )
1998 U320 42' Build 5298
 

Re: Rig search update and advice on Qs to ask surveyor?

Reply #17 –
Excellent, we had a 98 before the one we have now and it was a tank! I used to love to pull away from SOBs (some other brands) on hills.
We are fairly new to the RV lifestyle as well but one thing that helped me with intimidation was realizing this thing is just an average sized bus, nothing more. When you see a Greyhound, you're looking in a mirror. (I chuckle when I think of my favourite bus driver, Ralph Cramdon from "The Honeymooners"!!!) >:(
 
You're doing the right thing researching driving schools and monitoring/studying this forum.
All the best, have fun, Mark
Mark and Judy Blain
2010 Nimbus 45, ISM500
Build No. 6528
Motorcade No. 17243
Burton, Texas