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"Safe" Roof Treatment

Our '93 U280 has the factory original (flat) roof, in good condition.  No big cracks, no leaks, no problems evident.  The gel coat, however, is showing its age in the usual ways - getting kinda powdery looking, no gloss left, and stains easily.  It is possible, finances permitting, that we might want to get the roof re-done at Xtreme within the next 12 months or so.  In the meantime, I would like to protect the roof as much as possible from further aging, and reduce the susceptibility to stains.

So my question is: What product line can I use to clean and protect (seal) the roof surface, that WILL NOT cause problems when (if) we later decide to take it to Xtreme.  I have read it is not good to use silicon based products if you ever want to repaint.  Are there others that should be avoided?  What IS recommended?

Thanks, as usual, for any guidance.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Surely, no age has been more fraught with insecurity than our own present time."

Re: "Safe" Roof Treatment

Reply #1 –
I would call Xtreme and ask James what would be ok
previous 1984 35 ft ORED 250 HP 3208 Cat       
previous 1998 40 ft U295 CAI 325 hp Cummins
previous 2003 40 Ft u320 build #6140 450 Cummins M11.                                                         
1999 Mazda Miata
Ron, Nancy, Tipper the cat, Max The dog
1997 U 270 36 ft build number 5174 8.3 Cummins

Re: "Safe" Roof Treatment

Reply #2 –
For over 10 years Cindy kept our roof and sidewalls looking like new.  Her write-up is attached.  The mentioned seller & their sealer is out of business, so other marine or RV sealer can be used.  Because fiberglass is porous, the secret is to use fiberglass sealer.

Re: "Safe" Roof Treatment

Reply #3 –
The Gel Coat Labs products mentioned in Cindys' write-up had been touted by a technician at the boat yard where we had our boat maintained. It didn't take long before we started using the sealer and polish on our FT. Their products work great, I can tell you. Since we no longer have a boat, I just order mine through Amazon. The chalky scale is gone and it's now a lot easier to clean the whole rig without all those rivulets running down the side.
Route 66_End to End....someday

  1986 36' Grand Villa
    2015 Jeep Patriot
        K1SLD Steve
        K9NIK Nikki

Re: "Safe" Roof Treatment

Reply #4 –
Bofzwell:  Thanks for the reply.  Based on reading many posts from Barry and Cindy, I have great confidence in their recommendation.  However, I still wonder if using that type of "sealing" product will cause problems should I ever decide to get the roof painted.  I called James at Xtreme, but he was not really helpful.  He said I should avoid any product that leaves "residue" on the roof (whatever that means...).  I am still waiting for a more definitive opinion on that one (important) point.

Here is why I am concerned about the present condition of our roof.  When I bought the coach from the PO, the roof was clean and white, with no stains or spots.  Looked really good.  Closer inspection revealed the gel coat had lost its shiny surface gloss, and was slightly porous/chalky looking, but nothing unusual for a 21 year old coach.  We recently took a trip to the DFW Gathering at Benbrook Lake, where we sat under large oak trees for 4 days.  The runoff from our air conditioners mixed with the fallout from the trees, and left dark brown (tannin?) stains on our roof.  It is this staining that I am trying to avoid in the future.

By the way, if anyone else runs into this problem, I have found one possible solution.  On the boating forums, I read many favorable recommendations for using Bar Keepers Friend (Bar Keepers Friend | Cleaning Products | Household Cleaning Supplies) to remove stains from fiberglass.  I had some under the kitchen sink, so I tried it.  It works GREAT!  The stains just disappear when the cleaner touches them, with very little scrubbing required.  Apparently the active ingredient is oxalic acid, and that is what removes the stains.  You can supposedly buy pure oxalic acid in a powder form at Lowes/Home Depot if you want a less abrasive cleaning solution.

Below are "before and after" photos taken while I was experimenting with cleaners on the roof:

1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Surely, no age has been more fraught with insecurity than our own present time."

Re: "Safe" Roof Treatment

Reply #5 –
So you have answered your own question by the looks of it. Now you just need to give it a wax polish.
JohnH
Coachless, now use aircraft. 2003 Ford Travelair TC280 class C. Super shape. Just for 1 yr .
1994 Ford E350 ClassC,total renovation inside and out. Now sold.
2000 U295  36' Cummins 350 c/w Banks Stinger, Resonator upgrade,Solar, LED lites.Residential fridge with slide out pantry. Build 5674. Sold
ex 92 GV 022C ored Cummins. Sold
ex 95 GV240 cat 3116. Sold
2017 Mini cooper s & 2016 land Rover LR2 HSE  LUX.
jhaygarth@aol.com    SKP #130098
treat everyone as you would like to be.

Re: "Safe" Roof Treatment

Reply #6 –
We used Cindy's sealer up to the time we had the James Gang paint our roof and coach and our roof and coach paint is as good as new three years later. There is nothing we can do to prevent them from doing a 1st class paint job.

Re: "Safe" Roof Treatment

Reply #7 –
Barry,

I got to thinking about it, and decided I was worrying about nothing.  With the age of our coaches, and the number of different owners, there is no way the Xtreme crew could know what products had been used over the years on any item they paint.  They must have ways of preparing the surface that would remove almost any conceivable contaminate, and provide a good base for the new finish.  As soon as I finish cleaning up my roof, I will try a sealant like you guys used.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Surely, no age has been more fraught with insecurity than our own present time."

Re: "Safe" Roof Treatment

Reply #8 –
Cleaning and treating the roof seem to be different questions. I would clean mine till I needed to fix it. James and extreme put the covering on mine.  Different than paint and it works well.
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: "Safe" Roof Treatment

Reply #9 –
John S:  Yes, cleaning and treating are definitely two different things.

I have recent info from Xtreme indicating they offer 2 different roof "treatments".  The first is simply a "paint package", and the second is a "coating package".  I assume the "coating package " is the one with the anti-skid glass beads.  That is probably what you have, and that is what I would want when and if I have it done.

But in the meantime, as part of the "cleaning" process, I want to apply something to reduce staining and discoloration of the surface, I.E. a "sealer" such as that recommended by Barry and Cindy.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Surely, no age has been more fraught with insecurity than our own present time."

Re: "Safe" Roof Treatment

Reply #10 –
I have the coating and it looks like cake frosting. It works well.  Had friends with a painted roof next to me and we set our acs at the same temp and mine only ran once that day while theirs cycled on and off.
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: "Safe" Roof Treatment

Reply #11 –
Although we have gotten a bit of topic on this (again)
Quote
Had friends with a painted roof next to me and we set our acs at the same temp and mine only ran once that day while theirs cycled on and off.
So you are saying two identical coaches? 

I mean same length, same colors, same paint scheme, same location and size of all windows, same condition of the other exterior surfaces, same sun exposure (no shadowing), same ground surfaces around each (location of grass/gravel/pavement amount and location relative to coach), same exposure to breezes (again no shadowing) same heat load inside (BTU output of electronic equipment, people, cooking), same location of all internal heat loads to the thermostats, same locations of the thermostats inside the coaches, same window treatments, same color of interior fabrics by the windows, if awnings were deployed, same color awnings and same deployment of them, same total exposed area on the roofs (ie. same satellite, vents, AC, solar panels, etc),  etc.

And the ONLY different was the roof coating on a surface that contributes to just part of the total heat gain (and not close to the majority of it either) and you still had a MASSIVE delta in performance between a highly reflective white painted and the cake frosting ? 
?Insulating? Paint Merchants Dupe Gullible Homeowners | GreenBuildingAdvisor.com
Insulative paint - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry if I'm more than very skeptical that it is that big an improvement over the white reflective paint, (not talking about as compared to a old gel roof with mildew).

Quote
When Xtreme did the FBP also had them do the roof includibg the glass grit fibish, so am pleased with the non issue roof.
We also had Xtreme do the glass git white reflective paint on ours several years ago and have been pleased, very easy to keep clean, reflective, stopped a majority of the drip marks, all goodness :D
2000 / 36' / U320 / WTFE
WildEBeest / "Striving to put right what once went wrong"

Re: "Safe" Roof Treatment

Reply #12 –
Well it was 36 foot decal mostly white.  It was an exact match to our 2000. Their AC was running and ours was not.  Same direction next to each other same MCD but they had their window awnings down and we did not. We had more roof area and both had residential fridges.  To my way of thinking parked next to each other and the same window treatments and they had more white gel coat and I have some brown paint. It was noticeably warmer in their coach and they had AC units running while mine barely came on.  Also, in during down there I usually start the generator when outside temps hit 75 or so as the coach gets hot. It was 82 and the dash air was all I used. Is it a perfect experiment, no but I see a noticeable difference from no roof paint. Thinker roof covering will transmit less heat to the top of the coach so it seems to be working.
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: "Safe" Roof Treatment

Reply #13 –
Quote
but I see a noticeable difference from no roof paint. Thinker roof covering will transmit less heat to the top of the coach so it seems to be working.
Your original post said the other coach had roof paint, not the gel coat, this seems to say the opposite, or maybe I misread it.

You can calculate the real R values of the product, not the misleading equivalent values that are often quoted.  The real R-values are miniscule.  Sure thicker = better but you are likely talking about <1% increase in true R values to the overall roof sandwich of materials.

Also your 42' foot coach has (3) 15K BTU A/C's, the 36 likely had (2) 15k or even 12k BTU units.  So you have about 15% more area with at least 33% more cooling capacity and with all the other major differences between the two coaches trying to compare them and produce comparative results is a mistake IMO.

Turning up the contrast a bit, if they were to add nitrogen to their tires and get better MPG in the 36' than you do in a 42' would we think it was due to the nitrogen?  To me the differences are to great to be making those type of comparisons.

This is in no way an attack on the coating, it servers an important purpose, but I'm more than dubious over R-value claims (and as the above links show, so is the FTC)

But like DaveM says, do what makes you happy!
2000 / 36' / U320 / WTFE
WildEBeest / "Striving to put right what once went wrong"

Re: "Safe" Roof Treatment

Reply #14 –
I agree with what you are saying Steve but the issue was the ac running during the day vs not running at all. I think that with more roof area it would heat up the larger space about the same rate. The inside of my coach was cooler by about 5 degrees causing no ac run time at all. 
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: "Safe" Roof Treatment

Reply #15 –
I agree with Steve that the "insulating" qualities of paint are minimal, at best. But the right paint can increase albedo (the fraction of solar energy reflected off of a surface) which, in turn, can appear to be "better" insulation.

Solar panels, by the way, do not help keep a coach cool. A good solar panel actively encourages solar energy to land and stick; not be reflected away. And surface mounted solar panels are probably the worst. But those of us who are moving towards solar walk a line. We want more power but we aren't crazy about hotter coaches (and we can't exactly park in the shade!). Mounting the panels above the coach rooftop is some better but then we risk damage to the panels (debris, wind, etc.).

In general, I would opt for the best reflective paint wherever I don't have solar panels.

If that makes sense. :P

Craig
1993 U225 36' Unihome GV with PACBRAKE exhaust retarder, Banks Stinger and Solar Panels.
Toad: 1999 Jeep Wrangler 2-door soft-top.

"No one has ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke."

Re: "Safe" Roof Treatment

Reply #16 –
Quote from: wa_desert_rat –
Solar panels, by the way, do not help keep a coach cool.

In general, I would opt for the best reflective paint wherever I don't have solar panels.
Craig

I've had it in mind that solar panels would exhibit the Peltier junction effect....cooler on the backside.  Sorry to hear that's not true.  If nothing else panels mounted on standoffs with ventilation would seem to help with shading of the roof and take some heat load off. 

You guys are splitting hairs on the reflective coatings.  If you really want the most effective just roll on some aluminumized mobile home roof coating. ;D ;D ;D
"Not so  long ago we were a nation of risk takers, riding five million pounds of  thrust straight into space."  Joe Gresh
Chuck Pearson
1996 U295
2018 Can Am X3 TurboRS

Re: "Safe" Roof Treatment

Reply #17 –
Quick notes:

1. Inside roof temps 83 to 86f but under unisolar panel it's 89f.
2. Outside: roof top  83 to 87. Top of unisolar 129 to 131. Top of solid panel 121f.

Outside air temp 70f. Full sun. Both the bottom and top of surface mount panel is hotter than just the white roof.The solid panel is just laying on the roof where I'll mount it. Cleafly cooler.

Craig

1993 U225 36' Unihome GV with PACBRAKE exhaust retarder, Banks Stinger and Solar Panels.
Toad: 1999 Jeep Wrangler 2-door soft-top.

"No one has ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke."
 

Re: "Safe" Roof Treatment

Reply #18 –
I'm having a problem making this add up.  How can it be that these solar panels are taking sunlight and converting it into electron flow.....and increasing heat over ambient at the same time?  Are they so inefficient that the energy generated is not accountable for with standard measuring equipment?

Seems like sunlight that is converted to electrical energy would not show up as heat. Be interesting to see what the measurements on and under a piece of metal painted with a similar color and reflectivity index as the panel would be. 

"Not so  long ago we were a nation of risk takers, riding five million pounds of  thrust straight into space."  Joe Gresh
Chuck Pearson
1996 U295
2018 Can Am X3 TurboRS