Front engine swap

Topic: Front engine swap (Read 1116 times) previous topic - next topic

Front engine swap

May 08, 2014, 11:54:08 am

Hi everybody,
recently spotted an FTX in a field & made contact with the owner to see if he would sell it. Nope, he wants to keep it! But I'm going to help him swap the engine. Its a front engine Chevy 454. Has anyone here swapped one out? Which way? top, bottom or front? After looking at it, it seems that pulling all the heat exchangers out and using a forklift to lift & remove through the front is the most feasible. But what seems right & what is right ain't necessarily the same. Any thoughts, experience & suggestions are appreciated.

Re: Front engine swap

Reply #1 – May 08, 2014, 01:33:11 pm

I put a Ford/Navistar 7.3 turbo diesel in our Southwind. Possible problem you may have is the oil pan/steering conflict as some 454s may be made for different models. Possible pan change along with the oil pump pickup tube and dip stick if you have to get a pan with the sump at the opposite end. Fortunately, I was able to just turn the pan 180 degrees but still had to change the oil pickup. Other brands may require a special pan.

Some coaches may require the front suspension to be dropped to get the engine up in place. I went straight back but was lucky and a HF cherry picker did the trick.

Pierce

Re: Front engine swap

Reply #2 – May 08, 2014, 09:55:31 pm

You might be able to pull it out from the front, might have to remove the heads so you will have enough room to raise it and pull it out. Is it a chev chassis or a roadmaster chassis. That will make a difference. If a roadmaster might be easier to drop the front axle and drop the engine out the bottom.

Re: Front engine swap

Reply #3 – May 09, 2014, 10:44:53 am

Itsa Chevy chassis. When I crawled underneath it looked identical to every other 2 wheel drive gm setup I'veever seen. Tag says incomplete chassis by GM. Front crossmember is welded in.I've scrupulously avoided engine work on vans for my entire career cuz they are labor intensive. Now its time to break my tradition in the interest of financial gain.

Re: Front engine swap

Reply #4 – May 15, 2014, 11:58:43 pm

OK, this thread is officially converted from a "how to do it? question into a "how to do it" statement. It is in no way to be construed as a confession or otherwise entered into evidence...

That being said, we got it towed from the field to the apron in front of the shop. Got a battery in it & got it started with some starting fluid. As expected it made a horrific racket from somewhere inside the block. This supports the statement of mortal injury inflicted by the previous owner. He ran it down the highway in second until the bearings melted!
Pictures to come soon!

Re: Front engine swap

Reply #5 – May 19, 2014, 03:03:41 pm

Well... This is the first GM I've seen that the front end can be unbolted & dropped. The engine will come out the bottom. Going to be a lot of bull work & inaccessible fasteners. But it'll be alright

Re: Front engine swap

Reply #6 – May 19, 2014, 09:09:58 pm

That is the way we did it only I think it was a Winnebago we changed, but has been a lot of years, so not sure about that.

Re: Front engine swap

Reply #7 – May 21, 2014, 12:17:40 am

After a few years the various tasks fade into memory. Except for the really great ones or the ugly ones. Taking it apart for the third time at 10 PM.
Taking the cab off a ford because thats the ONLY way to get the injection pump out. Taking the front bumper off an Audi to change the water pump. Swapping a heater core in a bronco II in 15 minutes with 2 tools. great engineering, way underrated SUV.
This engine swap is going to be a learning curve.

Re: Front engine swap

Reply #8 – May 21, 2014, 08:17:37 am

How about removing the RF fender on a Monza to replace a sparkplug ?
Ultimate fix, JACK IT UP, REMOVE RADIATOR CAP, DRIVE NEW CAR UNDER RADIATOR CAP, REPLACE CAP, Done.
Gary B

Re: Front engine swap

Reply #9 – May 23, 2014, 11:37:58 pm

OK, Got the engine out. here is the step by step procedure with some pictures. This IS NOT my coach. If I ever have to pull my engine I'll write a different procedure for it.

Re: Front engine swap

Reply #10 – May 24, 2014, 02:11:21 am

Nice writeup!

I'm sure somebody down the line is going to find this writeup very useful.
Don

Quote from: fredlewers – May 23, 2014, 11:37:58 pm

OK, Got the engine out. here is the step by step procedure with some pictures. This IS NOT my coach. If I ever have to pull my engine I'll write a different procedure for it.

Re: Front engine swap

Reply #11 – May 24, 2014, 05:13:19 am

Fred,
What engine are you planning to replace the 454 with ?
Never did a RV, but did the DDC 4-53T with the Ford Automatic in a Ford F250 4X4, glad I had a mill as had to make the bell housing adaptor. Would not do another, but was a fun experience for a Detroit Diesel gear head.
Good luck, be safe
Dave M

Re: Front engine swap

Reply #12 – May 24, 2014, 09:59:05 am

Dave,

Several good Ford PU to Detroit 4-53 conversions on YouTube. The bell housing does look like a bit of work. One was 2WD with an automatic. Would probably get twice the fuel mileage the 454 gets if the rear end were changed too.

Pierce

Re: Front engine swap

Reply #13 – May 24, 2014, 11:13:36 am

Pierce,
The other issue was the flex plate to the Ford torque converter. That along with the correct spacing of the adapter to bell housing was a challenge for this idiot, it all worked and as you would guess oil leakage required new turbo oil return line. Performance was good enough, but the noise db, picture a can full of unhappy bumble bees with an audio amp.
The rest of the work was just cut & weld / fabricate.
Dave M

Re: Front engine swap

Reply #14 – May 24, 2014, 01:05:15 pm

I have driven some front engine diesel rv's long ago. Noise would be the biggest issue. Foretravel insulated the underside of the floor and engine cover to help.

A 502 Chevy is supposed to be very reliable and probably a bolt in if one can be sourced.

Re: Front engine swap

Reply #15 – May 24, 2014, 01:30:32 pm

Speaking of the GM 502 engine, we use those as turbocharged 1800 rpm on 150 kw nat gas gensets or 125 kw as a lp gas setup.
While they produce large hp for 1800 rpm due to biggie turbo, CAC, big oil cooler, they are very sensitive, for example, if it backfires once, you pull all rods & pistons, checking to find the bent rod, one will be bent. And the head gasket is gone too.
Otherwise for a cheap 225 hp at 1800 rpm engine, they seem to be doing, we have 5 in service now, we have not had any issues yet, however one in the area has been replaced and its replacement has been taken apart, had one rod replaced, othwerwise, it must be going fine as have not heard any more about it.
Cheap is not always a bright move

Dave M

Re: Front engine swap

Reply #16 – May 24, 2014, 07:24:17 pm

The customer has a 454 that was rebuilt 16 years ago & has less than 10 miles on it. Its been started a few times over the years. Going to try to use that. Probably going to get a more aggressive cam & some headers. The stock Quadrajet will get rebuilt & reinstalled. I've got a lot of faith in the Q-jet carbs. They can take the neglect that a Holly can't. If it was a street rod or track car I'd go with a Holly or Carter. But for this application, I think the Q-jet is the best bet. A little more cam & headers to help her breathe better & we can start on the cosmetic stuff.

Re: Front engine swap

Reply #17 – May 24, 2014, 09:34:25 pm

Fred,
Am guessing the 454 is the heavy duty engine, not the auto version. The HD / industrial version would have a forged crank, rods and pistons. Where the auto have the cast crank etc and will not give Anyone a happy future as a motor home engine. Just saying.
Dave M

Re: Front engine swap

Reply #18 – May 25, 2014, 10:30:45 am

So, Dave is probably correct about the forged crank. Here is a site with photos so you can tell the difference between blocks plus it mentions motorhome engines: Need help decoding 454 BBC | The H.A.M.B.

Our SOB had a Dodge 440 in it. I sold engine/trans to a guy in Phoenix for a Barracuda restoration for $1600. He would have paid more but when I checked the serial number, it did not have the forged crank. The hot rodders pay well for the race worthy stuff.

Also had a Nissan diesel engine out of a Maxima. SCCA racers wanted the crank out of the diesels for their 240Z race cars.

Pierce

Re: Front engine swap

Reply #19 – May 25, 2014, 12:06:45 pm

In the world of Automobile vs Industrial/HD/Marine engines, if become apparent real quick in Generator units. The 300 Ford 6 cylinder HD will run 50,000 hrs and with the 300 6 auto in the generator, maybe 1 hour.
For a quick thought, the HD engines are built for 100% under load, the auto engines are designed for less than constant high power settings, why the use of the Forged in the HD and the cast in the auto engines.
Have seen generators (HD/industrial/marine specs) that had been destroyed for one reason or other, the owner decided he would go for a rebuilt from AutoZone or who ever had the lowest cost. Get it installed and within an hour of heavy load, it comes apart due to the low quality of auto parts, they are not designed for heavy loading continuous with no coasting/unloaded running.
Same with the marine engines etc.
Yes Mopar had some serious HD engines in the 413 & 440, not in a car or pickup, same with GM & Ford, Fords heavier gasoline engines were the 330,361 & 391, all the F1 series, but much heavier than the 360 & 390 F1 version
FWIW
Dave M

Re: Front engine swap

Reply #20 – May 25, 2014, 09:17:34 pm

I'm betting it will be right for the task. The donor vehicle is a comparable vintage MD truck. Its cabover box truck on a MD frame. About the same ratings as the original GM incomplete chassis. It was rebuilt by a local shop. They may have the build sheet in a file. Or maybe in the cab. Worst case I open up the engine on a stand & check out the innards. But y'all are right about the difference in duty cycles. Don't send a boy to do a man's job..... It would be a real drag to get it back together & blow it up on its maiden voyage. But the donor engine has sat for 16 years.... He does understand the YMMV concept & the risk associated with letting an engine sit in a field. I've worked in a couple of speed shops. Once in a blue moon you get a bad component & you get to see a fresh rebuild implode with little to no warning. If you have a good day, you can salvage some of it, a bad day & you watch $5,000-$10,000 vaporize

Thats why I don't have a race car. I live vicariously through those who do!

Affiliate Notice