Upcoming Coach inspection

Topic: Upcoming Coach inspection (Read 1045 times) previous topic - next topic

Upcoming Coach inspection

June 06, 2014, 02:31:00 am

We could be heading out as soon as this Sunday to look at and hopefully purchase a new to us 1995 u 280 40'. As the time winds down I am starting to feel a little intimidated at enormity of what this purchase will most certainly mean to us. Hopefully it will be one the most rewarding chapters in our lives to date! Was wondering about "lift" pump check on the mechanical 8.3Cummins and if there was a less involved way to establish function without tapping and installing a 100psi gauge on a coach I don't own yet? Would overall drive ability or seat of pants feel indicate healthy fuel pressure? Also wondering about checking Turbo/Wastegate plumbing for leaks with soapy water and spray bottle. Anyone ever carried such a thing to an inspection/ purchase? If so is this a sound method for detecting most leaks except possibly internal diaphragm issues?
This Coach appears to have been well cared for and stored indoors with 120,000 or so miles . Don't believe it needs valves adjusted for another 30,000 miles although owner seems to remember them being gone through. Any input is most appreciated.. Thanks, Tom

Re: Upcoming Coach inspection

Reply #1 – June 06, 2014, 04:05:30 am

You said "any input is appreciated" this falls into that category.

If you have doubts about the engine you should check to see if there is a Cummins service center near by. They have mobile mechanics that can come and check the coaches engine. If you can bring it to the shop they can dyno the coach for about $500. That should give you a better nights sleep.

Like its been stated here MANY times, and it is accurate advice, PLAN ON spending $10,000 more to get things fixed or updated.
Its a 1995, EVERYTHING is suspect and if it has not been replaced, it WILL need to be replaced.
As good as they built them the components that were installed wear out or time out.
The coach and drive-train will probably be the LEAST of your problems, its everything else!
Buy it at a good price with the thought that replacing many items will be a GOOD thing.
If you must pay to have the work done be VERY careful, Labor and parts mark-up will kill you!
Keep that in mind when you negotiate a offer.

My two cents.

Good luck, I hope it works out.

Re: Upcoming Coach inspection

Reply #2 – June 06, 2014, 06:24:26 am

Good advice from Lon, Make sure drive train is solid, and a good test drive at highway speed will tell a lot. Don't sweat the little things, I consider my coach to be road ready but my little things list is fairly long (rattles, lights the don't work, and so on) Just a word of advice though, if you are not fairly handy buying a motorhome 15-20 years old will get costly if you have to rely on shops to take care of the "little things". Also check the age of all of the battries, and make sure all systems ac, fridge, water pump, generator, water heater, dump valves and leveling system work properly. And Finally check the condition of the bulkheads, look for evidence of water leaks (search this Forum for plenty of information about it) look for evidence of water leaks . If you are not comfortable with the inspection process there are some folks on this forum that will do an inspection for you, it could be the best $$ you will ever spend, and save you alot of grief.

Re: Upcoming Coach inspection

Reply #3 – June 06, 2014, 07:49:31 am

Thanks Guys, I have always performed most if not all automotive repairs on my vehicles over the years. Wouldn't say I was a mechanic but definitely a parts changer. Brakes,water pumps,tranny and even whole powertrain swaps. Most definitely not a diesel mechanic. Trying to cram as much as I can into a few weeks before inspection. Will be doing all fluids and filters in weeks following her homecoming. Plan on going through air systems as well. Only way I see delegating major repairs or preventive maintenance to professionals would be if my business has me completely underwater earning as much income as would be saved by wrestling with something my self.

Re: Upcoming Coach inspection

Reply #4 – June 06, 2014, 09:13:49 am

Tom, You didn't say where the coach is. If you can find an independent coach inspector to check it out do so. We bought a coach in CA and had it inspected before we went out there for a final look. The inspector was a mobile repair person very familiar with Foretravels. They know how everything is supposed to work. His inspection covered everything and he listed every little deficiency from a deteriorated windshield washer hose to an ir dryer hose that needed to be replaces to specific weak cabinet door lifts and a minor radiator leak. Everything that wasn't cosmetic was fixed before we got there including a complete engine/transmission service. Everything else including a new set of batteries was negotiated into the final price. It cost me $400. Much cheaper than what got fixed and adjusted in the price. I had done a lot of research and homework. I am still amazed at how many details I have no idea about. Even with a long check list, i wouldn't have been able to do the kind of inspection that I got.

We looked at several coaches before buying ours. It is the little things that tell you a lot about how well it as likely cared for. We saw coaches that weren't very clean, that had marker lights out, bay door latches that were poorly adjusted and lots of stuff like that. If the owner didn't pay attention to those things didi they pay attention to anything else?

Service records are proof of those things being done. Most owners don't have everything but major service points should be documented.

Hope you found a gem. Hope it is perfect (well perfect enough) for you. If so there will always be something to do or maintain or upgrade while you have lots of fun going forward.

Happy trails.

Roger

Re: Upcoming Coach inspection

Reply #5 – June 06, 2014, 09:33:24 am

That is always the trade off. I can make more money an hour then I am paying so it is better for me to have someone do it then for me to do it. Other things I do myself but most engine stuff I take to Cummins. Then again I have not had many issues other then a battery issue in the beginning. I lost a couple hoses but I was on the road then and needed to use cummins and I had my AC line changed out at Thermo King. It is the little things and an older coach will have them crop up but they are cheaper for a reason. They need more repairs and that goes for cars as well as motorhomes.

Re: Upcoming Coach inspection

Reply #6 – June 06, 2014, 12:37:57 pm

Starts and runs and drives ok and the sides are still on the coach is the big items. Walk the roof. No bubbles or damage. Look at the headliner and walls for water damage.

Condensation marks are normal below the windows.

I hate holes added by owners. I will not let my wife add any holes.

Open and close everything. Look inside everything.

I purchased mine with some issues at the time of the demo.

Loud banging noise turned out to be the rear hatch latches needed attention.

Air pressure would not build up and was low turned out to be an inexpensive main air controller valve. Part was cheap labor was not.

Most would have walked away. Wrong. Part of the natural beauty of a previously enjoyed motor coach.

These drive well enough to be worth the time and money to freshen them up....

Re: Upcoming Coach inspection

Reply #7 – June 06, 2014, 01:06:01 pm

Quote from: TAS69 – June 06, 2014, 02:31:00 am

Was wondering about "lift" pump check on the mechanical 8.3Cummins and if there was a less involved way to establish function without tapping and installing a 100psi gauge on a coach I don't own yet? Would overall drive ability or seat of pants feel indicate healthy fuel pressure? Also wondering about checking Turbo/Wastegate plumbing for leaks with soapy water and spray bottle. Anyone ever carried such a thing to an inspection/ purchase? If so is this a sound method for detecting most leaks except possibly internal diaphragm issues?

There probably isn't any easy way of checking the lift pump accurately in the field and without having driven another coach recently with the same weight/options/length, you more than likely wouldn't notice if it was not putting out enough power by driving it without a direct comparison. If it has 120,000 miles on it and the C8.3 means that you are looking at something older than 1998, the lift pump more than likely needs to be changed. I just did it on mine and the pump was only $80 from Cummins. You can find out if it is original by seeing if the existing one is painted flat black, the same as the paint that FT used on the engine. If it is shiny metal, it has been changed at some point. The plunger boot being cracked or loose will be another easy way to determine if the pump needs to be changed.

In the end, it will be much easier to use Cummins to ensure that you don't miss anything and spend your time poring over the maintenance manuals and engine diagrams to be familiar with everything when you start doing the maintenance.

Quote from: TAS69 – June 06, 2014, 02:31:00 am

This Coach appears to have been well cared for and stored indoors with 120,000 or so miles . Don't believe it needs valves adjusted for another 30,000 miles although owner seems to remember them being gone through. Any input is most appreciated.. Thanks, Tom

My view is that if the previous owner doesn't have it either written down in their own maintenance log with or a receipt as proof of when it was done, it never happened and figure that into the price you are willing to pay for the MH. If you are at 120,000 miles (though hours are the better measurement for maintenance) and the current owner doesn't have a maintenance log, there is some stuff that needs to be done and it would probably be better to let Cummins check it out.

Edit-It is also extremely likely that your fuel lines for both engine and generator will need to be replaced if they haven't been already, assuming that it would have the deteriorating Aeroquip 2550 hoses in 96.

Re: Upcoming Coach inspection

Reply #8 – June 06, 2014, 03:46:05 pm

23 hours labor to do my lines. It was well worth to cost as it was three men two days. I think I got a deal. The issue was they could only work from one side as I had the first gen slide and they put a large piece of steel on the drivers side for support. I think I made out on one standard rate job.

Re: Upcoming Coach inspection

Reply #9 – June 07, 2014, 12:15:46 am

Does anyone know of a cummins mechanic/coach inspector I might be able to reach out to in west central Illinois, Plymouth area?

Re: Upcoming Coach inspection

Reply #10 – June 10, 2014, 01:12:08 am

Our Coach inspection turned into a new to us Coach purchase! The Higgins were wonderful hosts allowing our family to spend last night in the Coach. Everything checked out great based on my limited experience. Oil pressure never dropped below 70lbs while we were rolling,temp never topped 180 ,both air needles rode high consistently . Noticed the exhaust temp on the Banks Stinger gauge climbed to over 900 regularly while we were hill climbing but dropped back to below 600 when we crested? Not sure if thats normal or not. Generator appears to need to be burped as it auto shut off after several hours on the interstate.
Other than lots of wind and rain as the sun set, the trip went quite well for the first time driving anything near this long or heavy. Backing down the drive for the first in the dark was harrowing but successful. Loved pulling into Kentucky and Illinois rest stops for bath breaks and coffee then being back under way minutes later!
All of the input from folks on this Forum has been awesome so far. Look forward to learning about,maintaning and enjoying this Vehicle well into the future! Thanks everyone!

Re: Upcoming Coach inspection

Reply #11 – June 10, 2014, 10:28:54 am

Quote from: TAS69 – June 10, 2014, 01:12:08 am

Noticed the exhaust temp on the Banks Stinger gauge climbed to over 900 regularly while we were hill climbing but dropped back to below 600 when we crested? Not sure if thats normal or not. Generator appears to need to be burped as it auto shut off after several hours on the interstate.

Temperature on Banks is relatively cool at 900F. Notation from previous owner of our coach re: Banks Stinger indicates not to exceed 1400F. We get to around 1200F on significant climbs. I put a red line on ours at 1300F. If we happen to get close to there on a hard climb on a hot day, we'll back off a bit. Your boost will probably max at around 26 psi on a hard climb.

Check the breaker switch for the radiator fan on the generator. We had a breaker "get tired." It would open up and turn off the fan. The generator would get too hot and shut down. I put in a new breaker, and all is good now.

When our generator would not keep running at all, we found that the fuel lines were bad. We had fuel lines for the generator and the main engine replaced. That's a relatively common issue for coaches 1996-1999. You can find threads on this forum about fuel line replacement in coaches of that vintage.

Best wishes for a successful adventure.

Re: Upcoming Coach inspection

Reply #12 – June 10, 2014, 10:32:48 am

TAS69,

Congratulations on the new-to-you coach! That first trip home is really exciting/scary/exhilarating/nerve-racking...we know from our recent experience. Hope the coach works out well for you, and turns out to be a good one. Since you asked earlier about checking the lift pump, you may be interested in a thread I started on the same general subject:

Question about Cummins Fuel System

Re: Upcoming Coach inspection

Reply #13 – June 10, 2014, 11:20:09 am

I will 2nd the info on the Banks as my average is around 1000 up to 1150 on a real hard climb. I have the Resonatror so along with the Banks I can see up to 34lbs of boost on a really hard steep climb. Great performance.
JohnH

Re: Upcoming Coach inspection

Reply #14 – June 10, 2014, 02:11:46 pm

Quote from: cajk – June 10, 2014, 10:32:48 am

TAS69,

Congratulations on the new-to-you coach! That first trip home is really exciting/scary/exhilarating/nerve-racking...we know from our recent experience. Hope the coach works out well for you, and turns out to be a good one. Since you asked earlier about checking the lift pump, you may be interested in a thread I started on the same general subject:

Question about Cummins Fuel System

Thanks for the great info, lots to absorb! This motor starts first bump and seems to be essentially be getting broke in at 114,000 miles . Hope to be well versed in all major systems asap. No way could someone with my income dream of owning a vehicle like this without our forum!

Re: Upcoming Coach inspection

Reply #15 – June 13, 2014, 10:49:21 am

Quote from: J. D. Stevens – June 10, 2014, 10:28:54 am

Temperature on Banks is relatively cool at 900F. Notation from previous owner of our coach re: Banks Stinger indicates not to exceed 1400F. We get to around 1200F on significant climbs. I put a red line on ours at 1300F. If we happen to get close to there on a hard climb on a hot day, we'll back off a bit. Your boost will probably max at around 26 psi on a hard climb.

Check the breaker switch for the radiator fan on the generator. We had a breaker "get tired." It would open up and turn off the fan. The generator would get too hot and shut down. I put in a new breaker, and all is good now.

When our generator would not keep running at all, we found that the fuel lines were bad. We had fuel lines for the generator and the main engine replaced. That's a relatively common issue for coaches 1996-1999. You can find threads on this forum about fuel line replacement in coaches of that vintage.

Best wishes for a successful adventure.

Where might that breaker be on my 280? also wondered type of size of fuel lines for generator? diameter that is?

Re: Upcoming Coach inspection

Reply #16 – June 13, 2014, 11:23:46 am

To confirm that your generator lines are the source of your problems, just disconnect the supply line to the lift pump (more than likely the metal cube type on the genset floor) and make/buy a short piece of tubing to run directly into a portable 5 gallon yellow diesel tank from WalMart. If your problems go away with the short run of tubing, you will need to replace the fuel lines (based on the age of the coach, you will almost certainly need to do this).

However, those Facet cube lift pumps can be a problem too and you will need to find out if that is contributing to the issue. There is probably a carburetor fuel filter element screwed into the intake side of the lift pump that could be clogged.

The fuel lines on my 98 were 3/8" supply and return from the nipple bracket below the generator control panel. This is not an easy thing to change and if you are going to do it, do the engine fuel lines at the same time rather than having to remove the fuel tank a second time.

How many miles/hours are on your main engine and generator?

See here-
First step to fuel line replacement (Removing tank covers)

Re: Upcoming Coach inspection

Reply #17 – June 13, 2014, 10:31:45 pm

Quote from: TAS69 – June 13, 2014, 10:49:21 am

Where might that breaker be on my 280?

Your generator may be very different from mine. Mine is a PT 10K with a Kubota 4 cylinder diesel engine. The radiator for the generator is in a side compartment separate from the generator. A 120VAC electric fan blows air through the radiator. If your generator doesn't have the remote fan, my suggestion would not apply. I apologize for confusing the issue.

The breaker on ours is on the front of the control/relay box along with some other breakers and the hour meter for the generator.

Re: Upcoming Coach inspection

Reply #18 – June 14, 2014, 07:06:09 am

Quote from: J. D. Stevens – June 13, 2014, 10:31:45 pm

Your generator may be very different from mine. Mine is a PT 10K with a Kubota 4 cylinder diesel engine. The radiator for the generator is in a side compartment separate from the generator. A 120VAC electric fan blows air through the radiator. If your generator doesn't have the remote fan, my suggestion would not apply. I apologize for confusing the issue.

The breaker on ours is on the front of the control/relay box along with some other breakers and the hour meter for the generator.

Thanks!

Re: Upcoming Coach inspection

Reply #19 – June 14, 2014, 07:16:46 am

Quote from: rsihnhold – June 13, 2014, 11:23:46 am

To confirm that your generator lines are the source of your problems, just disconnect the supply line to the lift pump (more than likely the metal cube type on the genset floor) and make/buy a short piece of tubing to run directly into a portable 5 gallon yellow diesel tank from WalMart. If your problems go away with the short run of tubing, you will need to replace the fuel lines (based on the age of the coach, you will almost certainly need to do this).

However, those Facet cube lift pumps can be a problem too and you will need to find out if that is contributing to the issue. There is probably a carburetor fuel filter element screwed into the intake side of the lift pump that could be clogged.

The fuel lines on my 98 were 3/8" supply and return from the nipple bracket below the generator control panel. This is not an easy thing to change and if you are going to do it, do the engine fuel lines at the same time rather than having to remove the fuel tank a second time.

How many miles/hours are on your main engine and generator?

See here-
First step to fuel line replacement (Removing tank covers)

Main has 114,000 miles generator has 1400 hrs.

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