u280, 3060R retrofit

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u280, 3060R retrofit

August 18, 2014, 05:40:10 pm

Watching listening about retarders so though I might upgrade from my pacbrake.

I think I have found a salvage 3060R (60k mi) that includes all connections, ecu, accumulator etc. Came from 8.3 cummins

Here are my questions;
Would the value increase?
Labor estimated at $4000, my guess
Came from a 8.3
Same control wires used?
Will need console are these available? Does it take up the same amount of space, ours is flat mounted.

Should I just we satisfied with what I got? Were 90% that were not going to upgrade unless it is a u320gv in the 75k range

Ive seen thes cost over 10K, I think I can do it for less.

Re: u280, 3060R retrofit

Reply #1 – August 18, 2014, 05:57:48 pm

Seems to me that you will get back pennies for every dollar spent. What's wrong with your pacbrake? Is it like the Cummins exhaust brake? Cummins QuickServe Online

If you are having problems, suggest you see if your pacbrake and service brakes are working as they should be. Foretravels have large disk brakes and that alone should stop you comfortably if working properly.

Pierce

Re: u280, 3060R retrofit

Reply #2 – August 18, 2014, 06:09:10 pm

Pac seems to work well, service brakes no issues that I know of. Were keeping the Coach so $$ is a consideration but not biggest.

Just some concerns on down hills. No issues with the 88 except the hill going down to devils tower. These brakes should be better than the Oshkosh

Re: u280, 3060R retrofit

Reply #3 – August 18, 2014, 06:13:57 pm

Hi John,
I think Pierce is right. I do not think you could add many dollars to what it's worth now. Would it make it more desireable? That's for sure. Would you enjoy it more? Oh yes you would. It's just how much you want to spend for that feeling.
Raymond

Re: u280, 3060R retrofit

Reply #4 – August 18, 2014, 07:51:53 pm

BIG job to convert. You will need a serious heat exchanger with the retarder transmission. I would not consider doing it.

Much better value, go with the PacBrake PRXB for your engine.

Re: u280, 3060R retrofit

Reply #5 – August 18, 2014, 09:27:56 pm

Looks like with all the comments, makes me glad at least I have the pbx pacbrake.

Re: u280, 3060R retrofit

Reply #6 – August 18, 2014, 09:46:41 pm

Fire departments are the big users of the Meritor disk brakes and in one 5 minute response, can use the brakes harder than most RV owners see in a lifetime of ownership. Every fire engine has at least 500 gallons or over 4000 lbs of water on board with most of it high up in the chassis. With proper operator skills, the disks will provide a good safety margin in RV travels. The pacbrakes are just icing on the cake.

Pierce

Re: u280, 3060R retrofit

Reply #7 – August 19, 2014, 12:27:24 am

John & Cheryl, are you kidding??

This be a BIG job. . .

Drive shaft may be shorter if retarder makes the transmission longer. Computer programming is probably different. Assume many things different.

Would rather see you buy different coach if you must have retarder. Don't think it will anything to resale value. It may even lower resale value.

Retarders create big heat, that has to be removed with large transmission heat exchanger and probably larger radiator.
Retarder uses an accumulator that pushed fluid into retarder chamber when retarder activated.

Retarder has Foretravel relays controlled from Allison computer (which may be different.)

$ estimates may be just too low. Used tranny may have problems.

Very hard to get some parts for our older coaches and you may not find needed parts.

Why not just buy the coach it is coming from and work on that to be your motorhome.

Exhaust brakes added are a better choice, as you would not be trail blazing with unknowns.

Re: u280, 3060R retrofit

Reply #8 – August 19, 2014, 02:41:07 am

Induction brake (retarder) is a better option: Electromagnetic Braking Systems - Telma S.A.

Re: u280, 3060R retrofit

Reply #9 – August 19, 2014, 07:46:55 am

Barry & Krush,

Just thinking out-loud. DW sees all the retarder comments, we have a pbx pacbrake says why don't we just get one.

Anyone have one? Is a jake better?

Krush & Brett do you know if the cummins exhaust brake is same or similar to pacbrake?

Re: u280, 3060R retrofit

Reply #10 – August 19, 2014, 07:59:49 am

John, I think the easiest and cheapest route would be to buy the retarder with a coach attached.

Re: u280, 3060R retrofit

Reply #11 – August 19, 2014, 08:09:38 am

Good advice

Re: u280, 3060R retrofit

Reply #12 – August 19, 2014, 10:20:25 am

The Telma link is very interesting. It takes electricity to make it work. Wonder where that comes from? It would be interesting to see braking systems that generate electricity to charge batteries. Common on locomotives and light rail although the electricity

Re: u280, 3060R retrofit

Reply #13 – August 19, 2014, 10:21:48 am

All these devices can act as a crutch. Truckers have been driving the country since the beginning with just drum brakes. Disks were a huge improvement. Some seem afraid to use the service brakes. Anxiety over braking with our disk brake Foretravels indicates maintanence or a refresher at driving school is needed. A little extra help from a Jake, Pacbrake or retarder is frosting on the cake.

Pierce

Re: u280, 3060R retrofit

Reply #14 – August 19, 2014, 10:28:58 am

Pierce, that means a lot Thanks

Re: u280, 3060R retrofit

Reply #15 – August 19, 2014, 06:22:19 pm

Quote

Anyone have one? Is a jake better?

I've had all three. Retarder's the best, then Jake then Pac, in my estimation. As long as you have one of them, you're good.
jor

Re: u280, 3060R retrofit

Reply #16 – August 19, 2014, 09:46:37 pm

Here's an old thread from Dave Head on the Telma: Results of Telma retarder research
Looks like maybe Dave decided to just upgrade his coach. His signature back then was a U280, now he has a U320

Re: u280, 3060R retrofit

Reply #17 – August 19, 2014, 10:04:51 pm

Jor, John thanks.

Re: u280, 3060R retrofit

Reply #18 – August 19, 2014, 10:10:09 pm

Quote from: fouroureye – August 19, 2014, 07:46:55 am

Barry & Krush,

Just thinking out-loud. DW sees all the retarder comments, we have a pbx pacbrake says why don't we just get one.

Anyone have one? Is a jake better?

Krush & Brett do you know if the cummins exhaust brake is same or similar to pacbrake?

Do you have a pacbrake or exhaust brake installed? That would be PROBABLY be the most cost effective solution....assuming you have a problem.

If cummins makes an exhaust brake, it probably works the same?!? but I have no clue.

Really, these supplemental brakes are only needed on long down grades in the mountains. On the east coast, there are few places you really need it if you are careful with the brakes. Out west on the long passes, I would think you really would need the help from a supllmental brake unless you want to go slow slow slow down the mountain.

Disc brakes probably cool faster than drums, but they also have less mass to absorb the heat.

It's the long down hill grades that require regular brake application to keep speed in check that over heat brakes.

Re: u280, 3060R retrofit

Reply #19 – August 19, 2014, 10:49:12 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – August 19, 2014, 10:21:48 am

All these devices can act as a crutch. Truckers have been driving the country since the beginning with just drum brakes. Disks were a huge improvement. Some seem afraid to use the service brakes. Anxiety over braking with our disk brake Foretravels indicates maintanence or a refresher at driving school is needed. A little extra help from a Jake, Pacbrake or retarder is frosting on the cake.

Pierce

That is why so many old and steep truck routes, like the Grapevine in and out of Los Angeles, have runaway truck lanes filled with sand. They used to get a lot more use in the past than these days. Back in the day, it was a common sight to see a truck descending the Grapevine using the guard rail as a auxiliary braking device.

Re: u280, 3060R retrofit

Reply #20 – August 20, 2014, 01:07:45 am

Before my west cost trip i thought one day soon i would have to upgrade to FT model with retarder ... I had researched retrofitting quite a bit too. During my 4500 trip i had to go through some 5 and 6 degree hills and I believe as long as 6 or 9 miles of it ... i think longest portion was on 84 right before coming down to flat and driving along the Colombia river.
Well with that experience I concluded that retarder would be nice to have but certainly not a must, just slowing down with flashers on and enjoying the scenery does the trick just fine. If i was a truck driver and putting 100K mile a year or something sure but for RVing ... especially living in TX, no need for one and when i get the opportunity to get out west I'll just slow down.

Re: u280, 3060R retrofit

Reply #21 – August 20, 2014, 01:27:40 am

I don't use my retarder that much going down hills.

I downshift to 5 or 4 or 3 and control transmission temperature by keeping the engine rotating fast to get rid of transmission heat and use the service brakes when needed to keep the engine from spinning too fast..

Using the retarder just puts more heat into the transmission/retarder to remove.

best, paul

Re: u280, 3060R retrofit

Reply #22 – August 20, 2014, 08:54:30 am

Yes, we have a pbx pacbrake. Have not used it much, just the drive from VA to MO.

Seemed to work but thoes hills are not wy, co, mt, sd hills! That is our concern, but it seems like what I am seeing any assist braking works better.

Just wondering if pacbrake users could share experiences of the NP routes and grades where the pacbrake was used. Thanks!

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