How to Fix an Unintended Modification

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How to Fix an Unintended Modification

October 08, 2014, 01:20:39 am

I never have gotten around to telling y'all about the light pole that attacked me on our original trip home. In looking at the large batch of receipts I acquired, I discovered that the PO had backed into a palm tree and had to replace the upper part of the ladder. Really ironic, since the lower part of the ladder is now totaled. I have rationalized that it is a security feature to remove it. Carrying a 6' ladder for emergency access to the roof sounds like a good compromise. But I digress; let's just say the light pole, or wild mule, or whatever, committed an unprovoked assault upon Ducky. At the time, I did not know it had happened; that's what 17 tons and 40' can insulate you from (and why you ALWAYS need a spotter when backing up). I know when the attack probably occurred, but have no information about the perp.

In addition to the mangled ladder and another crack in the fiberglass, I discovered another modification. The bottom of the rear cap attaches to the frame member through a pair of 1 1/2" x 1/8" steel angles. The left most piece is welded on to a 1/4" piece that is attached to the large 3/8" box with two screws. The right most piece is welded to a 1/8" piece that attaches to the 1/4" metal that is attached to the bottom of the rear cap with one screw. The two angles are attached to each other with a pair of screws.

What happened during the attack is the right side was pushed in a few inches by bending the 1/4" plate at the screw line.

Among other results, this change in geometry pulled the inside edge of the rear cap inward which narrowed the opening for the door. The scratches from the door being force closed are shown on the inside lip of the rear cap. This also moved the large round peg that the bottom of the door sat on. Between the two changes, the engine door was VERY hard to open and close.

I have taken the first step in temporary repair by removing the screw that holds the angles on to the rear cap attachment point. This changed the geometry some by allowing the rear cap to move back towards its original location. It also allowed the door peg to move closer to its original position. The combination makes it much easier to open and close the engine door. At the moment, this change is only a friction fit between the two flanges. Before I try to drive it, I will need to secure the two flanges in some way. At a minimum I need to fasten a cable tie between the two original holes. Better than that would be to drill two holes into a piece of metal and attach the two flanges to it with bolts to make it more secure.

But that is just an immediate attempt at a fix. I would like to return the angle flange assembly to its original position. I see several straight forward ways to try to accomplish this:

1. Since the bend in the 1/4" plate occurs after the angle weld, I could drill two new holes in the straight part of the plate. This has the possibility of solving my problem fairly permanently and pretty easily, without much cost (except maybe a drill bit or two).

2. Remove the two screws that now hold the 1/4" plate to the big frame piece. I could then try to straighten that 1/4" plate. Never having tried to bend 1/4" steel plate, I can only imagine that it does not bend willingly. I do have a very large vice (somewhere on my estate) and a large sledge hammer. It would be easier to try using some cut off beams and the sledge hammer, but neither of these methods may work.

3. I could take the bent assembly to a machine shop and see if they can straighten it with a hydraulic press or something machiney.

4. A welder may be able to unweld the joint and weld to another piece of 1/4" plate.

There are other methods like trying to get the subassembly from Foretravel, but it may not be a stocked part. Its design looks like it is custom fit at assembly time.

Okay, that's my input to this brainstorming session. I have attached some pictures to help explain what I tried to describe in words. If you have any additional questions, please send them along.

I am hoping I am not the first victim of this kind of crime. If you have suffered the same fate, how did you fix it? If you have not had this happen, how would you proceed from here?

Thanks for any advice, suggestions, or other input.

Trent

Re: How to Fix an Unintended Modification

Reply #1 – October 08, 2014, 10:52:01 am

You could back up a heavy vehicle and attach a chain hoist between bent bracket and vehicle frame. Gently crank hoist and straighten bracket.

Re: How to Fix an Unintended Modification

Reply #2 – October 08, 2014, 10:53:33 am

Option 3 would be my choice.

Roland

Re: How to Fix an Unintended Modification

Reply #3 – October 08, 2014, 11:09:43 am

Trent,

I would pull it off, take it to a welding shop and have a duplicate made. Nothing like being there but it looks like a couple of angle irons that overlay each other with the final weld being made after it was fitted and adjusted to length. Also looks like once the proper length was figured out, they drilled and bolted close to the joint, and then pulled it and did the final weld. This should cost about $150. The steel is dirt cheap, just the labor. Wish I could see it in person. With a new part in place, any pre-purchase inspection by the next owner won't find a trace of previous damage.

I owned a company that designed DOT safety equipment like door beams and bumper reinforcements for non-compliant gray market European cars so have a fairly good eye for this kind of stuff. A 64" blade metal cutting band saw and a Miller 200 wire feed can build almost anything including a Foretravel sub-frame.

Pierce

Re: How to Fix an Unintended Modification

Reply #4 – October 08, 2014, 11:26:00 am

Been there done that(fixed it)
Take the whole thing off and apart and if you do not have a friend with a cutting torch then take it to a metal shop and have them straighten the flat plate and other end. They are simple to do with some heat/vice and hammer. Put it all together and check that things line up. Fix if they do not.
This is actually very simple to do and does not need to be replaced, just fixed.
JohnH

Re: How to Fix an Unintended Modification

Reply #5 – October 08, 2014, 01:58:49 pm

I would take it to a welding or machine shop and have the plate removed and straightened or replaced. If you can make a simple drawing showing exactly how it should look then that would be helpful. I wouldn't expect it to be too expensive

Re: How to Fix an Unintended Modification

Reply #6 – October 08, 2014, 04:34:00 pm

The plates are only bent at the point of the angle and will straighten easily- believe me I have done exactly this fix. This is not brain surgery, just heat it up and straighten. You need a good solid vice and a cutting torch for intense fast heat.
JohnH

Re: How to Fix an Unintended Modification

Reply #7 – October 08, 2014, 10:01:13 pm

Not even an 8 foot ladder will get you up on the roof and get you off the roof, so a 6 foot is a nice toy to own. Put the ladder back on if you want to safely get up on the roof. Xtreme Graphics has several used ladders.

We carry a Lowe's/Home Depot 8 foot "A" ladder, bungie it to upper OEM ladder, and that's how we get up on the top half of the rear ladder to get on & off roof. Our 8 foot ladder stores on its edge on Joey Bed, with about 1/2" clearance between both bay doors.

Re: How to Fix an Unintended Modification

Reply #8 – October 09, 2014, 11:28:00 am

When I redo mine, Newmar has a better idea!

There are 2 slots one for water hose one for pwr. The sewer is as it looks.

Ey here no critters, dor is closed sorry about photo

Re: How to Fix an Unintended Modification

Reply #9 – October 09, 2014, 11:42:29 am

A tree and a $5 come-a-long from harbor freight can probably fix it.

Re: How to Fix an Unintended Modification

Reply #10 – October 09, 2014, 12:42:18 pm

It HAS to be removed to get it flat as the plate needs to be pulled a fraction past centre to do that. NO shortcuts as the next thing is we will be hearing about an accident of the hook from come-a-long sliding off and hitting you in face or??
No Mickey-Mouse ideas just take it off!!
JohnH

Re: How to Fix an Unintended Modification

Reply #11 – October 09, 2014, 01:13:18 pm

I too would use heat... an anvil, a decent hammer, and something like a Mapp gas torch would make it easy to do. It is mild cold rolled steel and will respond to persuasion. I think I would just grab the other end first, heat up the area where it needs to bend until it is starting to glow, set the hot end on the anvil and carefully beat it into submission

. Rinse and repeat as necessary. A vice would also be helpful...
Don

Re: How to Fix an Unintended Modification

Reply #12 – October 09, 2014, 01:18:12 pm

John, myself and quite a few others with shade tree mechanical backgrounds could easily make the fix as John describes. Many others have fields of expertise that I can only dream about. My worry is without the shade tree background, someone could get hurt and the price of a welding shop fabricating a new one would be peanuts compared to any injury or time spent because a panel didn't quite line up correctly after the repair.

As far as ladders go, the original ladder with flat washers on the inside for support is the way to go. Too many RV lifestyles have been spoiled by ladder accidents. For a young person, getting up on top might be a little tricky at worst. As we age, our bodies change and it's best to eliminate or at least minimize the chance of an debilitating accident.

For anyone using a flat or extension ladder to get up on the roof, it should be on flat stable ground and reach 5 feet or so ABOVE the roof so you can just step out onto it not climb over the top. The base should be placed away from the coach so when you climb, your body is vertical with your arms straight out. It's important to have someone "foot" the ladder standing and holding the ladder between the coach and the ladder. Stepping out on a wet roof is also not a good idea. A lot of accidents have happened just using a short kitchen ladder in the house.

Pierce

One of my first jobs was working for a cable TV company. A come-a-long or coffing hoist was called a coffin hoist for good reason.

Re: How to Fix an Unintended Modification

Reply #13 – October 09, 2014, 04:05:05 pm

Quote from: John Haygarth – October 09, 2014, 12:42:18 pm

NO shortcuts as the next thing is we will be hearing about an accident of the hook from come-a-long sliding off and hitting you in face or??
No Mickey-Mouse ideas just take it off!!
JohnH

Fixing it in place by pulling on it with proper rigging is not mickey-mouse ideas for those with some common sense and experience. Ensuring the tools are strong enough and rigging will not liberate itself from the object being repaired goes without saying....well, maybe not these days?!?

If such a procedure sounds dangerous to you, then don't do it. For those with the tools and knowledge, it's probably safer than swinging a hammer.

Re: How to Fix an Unintended Modification

Reply #14 – October 09, 2014, 05:06:21 pm

well my last comment on this subject is that a $5 com-a-long from HF would be dangerous what ever you are doing with it, and as there is some pretty fancy/expensive fibreglass right next to one end of the brkt I do not want to chance going into the repair of this. That is why I still say take it off.
By the way I do have many many years of steel construction and machining behind me as that was what I did after my 5 yr apprenticeship in England and that is again why I say"take it off"
Everyone is different for sure.
JohnH

Re: How to Fix an Unintended Modification

Reply #15 – October 09, 2014, 07:24:14 pm

I still suggest going to either a welder or a machine shop and paying them to do it right. There are many other ways to (possibly) accomplish the task, but it will cost relatively little money to get it done right.

Re: How to Fix an Unintended Modification

Reply #16 – October 13, 2014, 06:30:43 pm

And the Solution Was:

I wound up taking both sides to a machine shop/welder who straightened the damaged one out. The major damage was to the 1/4" plate which had bent back along the bolt line; the angle iron did not seem to have bent at all. (Guess there is a lesson there that the 1/4" bent and the 1 1/2" x 1/8" angle stock did not.) The tab at the far end had also twisted (only above the weld joint on the angle stock).

The estimate when I showed him pictures on my cell phone last Friday had been $20-$45, depending on how much work it was. I took it there this morning and he said he was out of oxygen in his tank and had to get it filled before he could heat it up. He called me less than two hours later and said it was done. $25 and it looked good as new!

Now, all that remains is to reinstall them. The undamaged one shouldn't be any problem; only three bolts and it did not seem to move at all when I disconnected it. The damaged one may be a different experience. When I removed the one screw at the far end (attached to the rear cap bracket), it popped back towards the original location 1 1/2" - 2". Minor tugging on it further did not result in much additional movement.

I may try to loosely start the two bolts in the other end and then fasten the single bolt, and try to get it back where it belongs by tightening the two bolts into the 3/8" frame rail. Unless someone has a better idea ... ?

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions,

Trent

Re: How to Fix an Unintended Modification

Reply #17 – October 13, 2014, 06:48:49 pm

I would use a thread chaser (like tap, but made to clean threads, not to cut them) on the bolt holes. They are probably the short Rolok 5/16"X18TPI self tappers that FOT used for everything (pointy end, head with serrated flange). If any of the original screws are in good shape, you can clean them up and possibly use them to chase the threads. Maybe drill the holes in the flat plate slightly larger to give you some adjustment for the position. Just a thought...
Don

Quote from: TulsaTrent – October 13, 2014, 06:30:43 pm

I may try to loosely start the two bolts in the other end and then fasten the single bolt, and try to get it back where it belongs by tightening the two bolts into the 3/8" frame rail. Unless someone has a better idea ... ?

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions,

Trent

Re: How to Fix an Unintended Modification

Reply #18 – October 13, 2014, 07:01:43 pm

Don,

There was not any sign of rust on the bolts or the metal around them. They are pretty well protected by the second (long) mud flap, at least from anything that got past the duals' mud flaps.

Are you saying I should not reuse the Roloks?

Thanks,

Trent

Re: How to Fix an Unintended Modification

Reply #19 – October 13, 2014, 07:23:10 pm

If they are in good shape (not bent, with the threads intact), I would reuse them... If they are in good shape, I'm not sure where the challenge would be in re-installing the straightened bracket. What I would say though, they tend to fit very tight in the holes since they were installed by drilling a 9/32" or so pilot hole and shooting them in with an impact (and not always straight

), so putting in a standard bolt without cleaning the female threads can be a problem. If alignment is the only issue, enlarging the holes in the bracket slightly should make it possible line up the holes and get all the fasteners started before tightening any of them, no? This is not a critical structural issue like the bulkhead joint, so upgrading from the grade 5 Roloks to grade 8 doesn't really net you much, but I tend to do that when in doubt. If the Roloks weren't shot straight to begin with... (their pointy heads are much easier to get started in a hole which is not perpendicular). Just don't over tighten them because the stress from being not perpendicular to the hole can break them easier than you would think as they are case hardened and softer in the middle. What I have done at times, is bolt a bracket in with a couple of bolts (or one bolt and a clamp, or just clamps if necessary) and once sure that the parts are lined up, drill and tap a some new holes.
Don

Quote from: TulsaTrent – October 13, 2014, 07:01:43 pm

Don,

There was not any sign of rust on the bolts or the metal around them. They are pretty well protected by the second (long) mud flap, at least from anything that got past the duals' mud flaps.

Are you saying I should not reuse the Roloks?

Thanks,

Trent

Re: How to Fix an Unintended Modification

Reply #20 – October 13, 2014, 07:41:19 pm

Quote from: acousticart – October 13, 2014, 07:23:10 pm

If they are in good shape, I'm not sure where the challenge would be in re-installing the straightened bracket.

Don,

My only concern is whether the right rear cap has taken on a permanent deformity from being held out of place by the deformed bracket. When I released the one screw on the rear cap flange, it popped back towards its original location. I am not sure it returned far enough.

There may not be a problem. Unfortunately, we are in the fourth day of our annual four-day monsoon season, so I may not be able to check it out for a couple of days. I was looking for advice from those who had BTDT.

Thanks,

Trent

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