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Call 1-800-Someone Who Cares

During the Ladies Driving School last week, both the ladies and men had several sessions with James Triana. He handles Tech Support for Foretravel. His motto was "Call 1-800-Someone Who Cares."
 
After the Ladies Driving School, Jean and I left Friday morning and headed back home to Owasso. We made good progress and by early afternoon were on the Indian Nation Turnpike in Oklahoma. We have a Pike Pass on Ducky (same price as cars - weird!), so we do not have to stop to pay tolls. On the Indian Nation Turnpike, the toll plazas slow you down to 25 MPH, even in the Pike Pass lane.
 
We went through the first toll plaza with no problem, but after the second one, I did not feel we had as much power when we started accelerating again. My speedometer was stuck at 66 and the voltage gauge read zero; I turned the generator on. Almost immediately, we entered a construction zone with no where to pull over. I took the first exit, which was McAlester. There were no businesses at the exit (also under construction), so I headed towards the city.
 
As we entered the town, there was still no businesses large enough to turn into. We went up a hill and over a bridge, with nothing but small-town-USA in front of me. I turned right at the intersection at the top of the hill, looking for a place to get off the road. As I started making the turn, I lost all hydraulics and had a REALLY tough time getting the steering wheel around to make the turn. I had no power but was headed down hill. I pulled into the parking lot at the bottom of the hill, with another herculean effort to turn the steering wheel. Fortunately, I got in far enough that the cars could get out beside me.
 
The Allyson display read the dreaded "Snake Eyes." I had a voltmeter with me and checked the coach and chassis batteries at the outlets on the dash. The coach read 13.4 volts, but the chassis was only 8.4 volts. I tried the boost switch but it only grew to 8.6. Time for 1-800-Someone Who Cares. I called Foretravel but the first number I tried had a full mail box. I then called Beverly and left a voice mail telling her I needed to talk to James. Finally I called Tech Support and told Susan that I was "dead in the water" and needed to talk to James. She said she would ask him to call me.
 
James returned my call within ten minutes and we discussed my problem. He determined that my boost solenoid was not working and had me move my two battery leads from the isolator onto the center terminal with the alternator lead. This worked! Ducky started right up and the instrument panel went back to normal. The dreaded snake eyes disappeared and were replaced with a gorgeous "N". We drove home, dumped the tanks, drained the water lines, and Ducky is parked for the winter. Next Winter, we hope to spend the Winter *in* Ducky, somewhere in the South.
 
James Triana really is someone who cares. He is a tremendous asset for Foretravel and a valuable resource to all of us Foretravel owners. Next time you have a problem with your Foretravel, don't forget to call 1-800-Someone Who Cares.
 
Thank you, James!
 
Trent and Jean Eyler
Trent and Jean Eyler
2000  U295  4003  WTFE  ISC  350
Build#5603 MC#17385

Re: Call 1-800-Someone Who Cares

Reply #1 –
Quote from: TulsaTrent –

 
The Allyson display read the dreaded "Snake Eyes." I had a voltmeter with me and checked the coach and chassis batteries at the outlets on the dash. The coach read 13.4 volts, but the chassis was only 8.4 volts. I tried the boost switch but it only grew to 8.6.
 
James returned my call within ten minutes and we discussed my problem. He determined that my boost solenoid was not working and had me move my two battery leads from the isolator onto the center terminal with the alternator lead. This worked!

Did James suggest what is causing your chassis batteries to be so low?  Bad connections at batteries?  Bad alternator?  Bad alternator belt?
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Call 1-800-Someone Who Cares

Reply #2 –
It sounds like you had low voltage on the chassis batteries, which caused a sequence of electrical problems.  I am not clear on how low voltage caused a loss of hydraulics (unless the engine quit running).  Did you determine what caused the low voltage problem?  It sounds like your alternator was still charging after you tied the batteries together.  Just curious...in case we ever suffer a similar event.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Call 1-800-Someone Who Cares

Reply #3 –
Michelle,
 
I have had a history with the engine charging system not charging. I assumed it was the alternator (easy to fix). I removed the alternator and had it tested; it tested good. I did talk with James about taking it to someone else to have it tested.
 
Before we went to NAC, I had charged both battery banks with an external charger and both were good before our trip. While in NAC, I was plugged into shore power and the on-board system kept the coach batteries up. At some point I boosted the chassis batteries and charged them for the trip home. As I recall, they were about 13.6 and 13.3 when we departed. The engine fired right up without the boost.
 
I did not use the generator at all on the trip until the system failed. The only thing I did differently was had the rear furnace on most of the trip home. I assumed it was powered by the coach batteries, but if not, that would explain what dragged my voltage down. When I traveled earlier, I used the AC, but always had the generator running.
 
Everything was running good until it wasn't. I have a couple of voltage gauges that plug into the dash outlets. If I had had those plugged in, I could have seen the drastic drop in the chassis batteries.
 
I will do more trouble shooting, but it looks like I may have to replace the boost solenoid (which would have saved me) and the isolator, which may also be bad.
 
Will keep y'all posted.
 
Trent
Trent and Jean Eyler
2000  U295  4003  WTFE  ISC  350
Build#5603 MC#17385

Re: Call 1-800-Someone Who Cares

Reply #4 –
Quote from: cajk –
It sounds like you had low voltage on the chassis batteries, which caused a sequence of electrical problems.
Chuck,
 
I think you are right. While my speedometer was stuck on 66, the voltage gauge was reading zero. After I got stopped, the chassis batteries measured 8.4 with my voltmeter.
 
Quote from: cajk –
I am not clear on how low voltage caused a loss of hydraulics (unless the engine quit running).

I think that is what happened. I had just limped up a hill across a bridge and was turning downhill to get out of traffic. I started turning, but then it was a humongous struggle to complete the turn. There was a small median at the intersection and the car waiting to turn left backed up a little to give me more room. I was afraid my wheel would hit the median and stop me dead blocking at least two lanes of traffic.
 
When I got to the bottom of the hill, it was again extremely difficult to turn into the parking area. Jean commented that she would never have been able to turn the wheel like I did. It was one of those occasions when there are no do-overs.

Quote from: cajk –
Did you determine what caused the low voltage problem?

No. But I just realized I did have dash heat on, which might be powered by the chassis battery. If so, that is what caused the battery to lose power.
 
Quote from: cajk –
It sounds like your alternator was still charging after you tied the batteries together.

I am not sure the engine charging system has worked in my three months of ownership. The coach batteries were already toast and I replaced them with three new 8D AGM's. The chassis batteries were two yellow tops that did not keep much of a charge. When I removed them and charged them separately, they both went to 13.3 and held it for a while. Now that I have dragged them down to 8.4, they may need to be replaced, too. At the moment both banks are reading 12.4 volts but I need to give them a good charge after the snow goes away.
 
The alternator tested good according to the "expert" but I will try to find James' recommended guy and check it again.
 
To be continued . . .
 
Trent
Trent and Jean Eyler
2000  U295  4003  WTFE  ISC  350
Build#5603 MC#17385

Re: Call 1-800-Someone Who Cares

Reply #5 –
I just thought of how I can test my boost switch. I can turn the generator on and charge the coach batteries. Then I can push the boost switch and see if the chassis batteries increase by watching the meters shown in the previous message.
 
Trent
Trent and Jean Eyler
2000  U295  4003  WTFE  ISC  350
Build#5603 MC#17385

Re: Call 1-800-Someone Who Cares

Reply #6 –
Trent,
 I had the same problem, low voltage, on mine a couple of months ago. While on trip it ran down to about 11 volts. We pulled over in Trinidad Colorado and ate lunch and had to use boost to get it started again. Started gen and ran rest of way to South Fork. I wasn't getting juice to the isolator even though the alternator was good. Finally checked a small bussman fuse mounted on the steel plate just left of the isolator. Juice on one side but not on the other side. Went into town and found a bussman fuse in small grocery store (Rainbow). After changing it out I was back to 14 volts. Is assume I had ran all the way to Trinidad off of the chassis batteries and they finally crapped out. Don't know if the are related but it might be worth a try. Good luck.
Bruce & Teresa
2000 U320 4010
2015 Jeep Rubicon

Re: Call 1-800-Someone Who Cares

Reply #7 –
Bruce,
 
Thanks. I will check that out tomorrow!
 
Trent
Trent and Jean Eyler
2000  U295  4003  WTFE  ISC  350
Build#5603 MC#17385

Re: Call 1-800-Someone Who Cares

Reply #8 –
Another possibility is the failure of the alternator excitation circuit breaker in the panel in front of the copilot. My circuit breaker failed and the alternator tested good, but was not charging. It is a self resetting breaker and I think it is 6 amp.

Re: Call 1-800-Someone Who Cares

Reply #9 –
Quote from: TulsaTrent –
I am not sure the engine charging system has worked in my three months of ownership. The coach batteries were already toast and I replaced them with three new 8D AGM's. The chassis batteries were two yellow tops that did not keep much of a charge. When I removed them and charged them separately, they both went to 13.3 and held it for a while. Now that I have dragged them down to 8.4, they may need to be replaced, too. At the moment both banks are reading 12.4 volts but I need to give them a good charge after the snow goes away.

If you want to test batteries, you need a "load tester".  Simply reading the "resting" voltage on a freshly-charged battery tells you nothing about condition.

6 Volt/12 Volt Battery Load Tester

Both banks are reading 12.4 because you (now) have them tied together at the center post on the isolator.  You are reading the combined voltage of all 5 batteries.

From what you have said, the alternator sounds like a prime suspect - getting it checked again sounds like a excellent idea.

I don't know if you use the "Boost" switch every time you start, as "unofficially" suggested by James T. at the Ladies Driving School tech session.  The problem I have with that procedure is it can "hide" the fact that your start batteries are in poor condition.  Then one day when your "boost" solenoid fails, you find out the hard way your start batteries are junk.  Just a thought...
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Call 1-800-Someone Who Cares

Reply #10 –
I would start by troubleshooting the battery isolator.

Return wires to their OE positions.  Check voltage at each lug.

Start engine and set at high idle-- around 1000 RPM.

Check voltage at each lug.

The center lug should show alternator voltage (high 14's)
The two outer lugs (one to each battery bank) should show 14-14.2 unless the batteries are deeply discharged.

Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Call 1-800-Someone Who Cares

Reply #11 –
What Bret said. This gives you a good idea of where to go next. Unless you have the same bussman fuse issue Bruce mentioned.

Craig
1993 U225 36' Unihome GV with PACBRAKE exhaust retarder, Banks Stinger and Solar Panels.
Toad: 1999 Jeep Wrangler 2-door soft-top.

"No one has ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke."

Re: Call 1-800-Someone Who Cares

Reply #12 –
Trent, didn't you just replace your alternator a couple months back?  Check to see if the excite wire is turning on with key or is this a self excited alt?

Two small lugs on back of alt.  One should switch on and off w key, the other should be hot all the time. If no you have a breaker, wire or connection problem.
"Not so  long ago we were a nation of risk takers, riding five million pounds of  thrust straight into space."  Joe Gresh
Chuck Pearson
1996 U295
2018 Can Am X3 TurboRS

Re: Call 1-800-Someone Who Cares

Reply #13 –
Chuck,
 
I removed the alternator and had it tested; the alternator guru was Shorty, from Shorty's Auto Electric in Tulsa.
 
When I replaced it, I was very careful to get the wires replaced properly. The charging system still failed to charge just as before, but that is a good place to again check the readings with the ignition key on and off.
 
I have received several good suggestions for which I thank all the good forum members. Still snow on the ground, but Wednesday, it is supposed to get to the high 50's. James gave me information about a shop Northeast of here that I will check during my Thanksgiving travel.
 
Trent
Trent and Jean Eyler
2000  U295  4003  WTFE  ISC  350
Build#5603 MC#17385

Re: Call 1-800-Someone Who Cares

Reply #14 –
Cajk:  Tks for the heads up about the battery tester.  We have a new Harbor Freigt store in Tyler.  Will go there today and see if they have it and get one.  Need to test the three red tops I am taking out of the FOT.  One of them might be still good.  Still waiting for the replacement batteries to arrive.  Takes three to turn the 400 over??  DAN
Dan & Shirley Stansel
2002 U295 4020 AGDS Build#6054
Towing Buick Enclave & M &  G Braking
Emerald Bay, Lake Palestine, Texas
MC# 16650

Re: Call 1-800-Someone Who Cares

Reply #15 –
I know this is a stoopid question, but don't you have a voltmeter on the instrument panel? Do you scan your gauges as you're driving? Did you notice the voltage was going down, especially when you use the turn signal, brake lights, or any other electrical load? On my coach I can tell when something is wrong just by noticing the voltmeter needle bouncing up and down when I use the turn signal.
Scott Cook
1991 U300 36' 6V92TA
Old Town Penobscot 16
1984 Honda VF1100C (V65 Magna)

Re: Call 1-800-Someone Who Cares

Reply #16 –
Quote from: RRadio –
I know this is a stoopid question, but don't you have a voltmeter on the instrument panel? Do you scan your gauges as you're driving?
Scott,
 
There are no stupid questions. Yes, of course there is a voltmeter as one of the dash gauges. In the three months I have owned this RV, it has always displayed about 11.5 volts. Consequently, it dropped out of my scan procedure.
 
When I first noticed the engine was not performing properly, my speedometer was stuck on 66 and my voltmeter read zero. The other gauges appeared to be in their normal range IIRC.
 
Quote from: RRadio –
Did you notice the voltage was going down, especially when you use the turn signal, brake lights, or any other electrical load?
No. I was traveling on a turnpike with a 75 MPH speed limit. My cruise control was set on 66 and I was glued to the right lane.
 
I had not had any battery problem during the trip to NAC. I think what did me in this time was having the dash heat on.
 
If I had noticed a lower voltage, I would have turned the generator on and (tried to) engage the boost switch. But I didn't, so I didn't. Maybe my problems with the boost solenoid was the 8.4 volts on my chassis batteries . . . ?
 
Trent
Trent and Jean Eyler
2000  U295  4003  WTFE  ISC  350
Build#5603 MC#17385
 

Re: Call 1-800-Someone Who Cares

Reply #17 –
I used to get low readings like that from my voltmeter. I cleaned the contacts on the back of the gauge and on the wire and the voltage went up immediately as soon as the gauge had a good connection. Now I see just below 14 volts on my voltmeter when the engine is running. When I'm plugged into shore power with the boost solenoid closed I see slightly lower voltage, about 13.5. I modified my voltmeter so it can stay on all the time, even when the ignition switch is off, and I installed a switch that allows the voltmeter to read both sets of batteries for comparison. It's a lot more useful now. I can tell if my boost solenoid is working by watching the voltage of the cranking battery go up as I close the boost solenoid when I'm on shore power. When I'm on batteries I can flip the switch to compare the coach batteries to the cranking battery to see if it's time to start the genset to charge the coach batteries. There's a lot to be learned from a voltmeter reading.
Scott Cook
1991 U300 36' 6V92TA
Old Town Penobscot 16
1984 Honda VF1100C (V65 Magna)