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Topic: 12V -side question (Read 2501 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: 12V -side question

Reply #50 –
Is this the schematic for your system?
Irwin
Irwin

Re: 12V -side question

Reply #51 –
Kind of looks like it. The diagram looks like there are three large breakers, and I think I have only two. Maybe the third one doesn't look like the other two, though. This will bear more checking. I'm going to be home Tuesday, waiting for propane, so I can poke around a bit more then.

Re: 12V -side question

Reply #52 –
Quote
Either the factory or a PO decided that four screws weren't sufficient to hold up a small plastic cover, so some sort of sealer was added. Once I got that cut I found that the whole underside of the switch is covered in black electrician's tape.
I'm betting that's factory. Here's a photo of mine. Same deal.
jor
93 225
95 300
97 270
99 320

Re: 12V -side question

Reply #53 –
Jor, that looks EXACTLY like what I found. I'll probably clean the tape off tomorrow.

Re: 12V -side question

Reply #54 –
Quote from: kb0zke –
.....................I turned the power back off and headed to the other side of the coach where I put a towel over the copper gas lines under the salesman's switch. Either the factory or a PO decided that four screws weren't sufficient to hold up a small plastic cover, so some sort of sealer was added. Once I got that cut I found that the whole underside of the switch is covered in black electrician's tape. I put the cover back on, without adding more sealer...........................
Guys,
 ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?
If you mount a switch in a potentially explosive (Propane) environment, you either need to use an industrial, sealed, explosive environment switch (= expensive) or you can use a switch that you already have and carefully seal it off from the environment (what Foretravel did in this case).  And, the tape on the terminals is there to prevent your dropped (or in motion) wrench from bridging (+) 12Vdc from the bare switch terminals to the gas piping or other ground point, creating sparks and the potential for an explosion.
Just remember that 6% or less of all RV fires originate from defects in refrigerators and 94%, or more, are caused from other sources (many of which are poorly implemented or thought out "upgrades" from the RV's original design).
Neal
The selected media item is not currently available.
Neal (& Brenda) Pillsbury
'02 U320 SPEC, 4200, DGFE, Build #5984
'04 Gold Wing
'07 Featherlite 24'
'14 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit
MC #14494
Exeter, NH & LaBelle FL
Quality makes the Heart Soar long after Price is Forgotten

Re: 12V -side question

Reply #55 –
Can't drop a wrench on those terminals as they are on the "ceiling" of the Compartment. In addition they are covered and the cover has some type of caulking sealing the terminals. Maybe a bit of overkill. I would have used an insulating spray. Would still remove the tape to assure that everything was hunky dory as far as the switch was concerned. Then resell and cover.

Roland
1993 U280 4341
2010 Jeep Liberty
The Pied Pipers

Re: 12V -side question

Reply #56 –
I for one am eager to hear what the issue is with this coach, not as eager a Dave but eager nevertheless.

Roland
1993 U280 4341
2010 Jeep Liberty
The Pied Pipers

Re: 12V -side question

Reply #57 –
Just heard the weather forecast and it sounds like I can work on this today. I'm going to warm the coach up to about 80, then kill all the power and trace wires. That will include taking that tape off. After I'm done with the switch I'll retape it. After I know where wires go I'll reconnect the house batteries and see where the electricity disappears.

Since all is good when we're plugged in, the only inconvenience is when we're traveling. Yesterday we cranked the heat up to 80 while we were packing up. Once I unplugged, of course, the furnaces stopped working, but the engine heater kept us nice and toasty.

I'll report what I find tonight.

Re: 12V -side question

Reply #58 –
Dave, any progress on your 12 volt issue? Inquiring minds want to know.

Roland
1993 U280 4341
2010 Jeep Liberty
The Pied Pipers

Re: 12V -side question

Reply #59 –
Well, no. The weather hasn't been very cooperative, and we were supposed to head down to Stillwater Wednesday. Unfortunately (or fortunately) the air compressor decided to quit on us, so we're stuck here at home until a new compressor and air dryer can be installed, which won't be until Tuesday. Tomorrow looks better than today, and Monday looks better yet, so we decided to spend today cleaning inside the coach.

I have been thinking about the problem, though. One test I want to run is to have some 12V stuff on, then have Jo Ann turn off the 120V while I measure the voltage at the batteries. Then I'll disconnect the batteries and have her turn the 120V back on. I talked to my b-i-l who is an electronics tech who worked with battery stuff for many years. He is also somewhat suspicious of the batteries, even though they were new last spring. I'd like to leave them completely disconnected for a couple of hours and see what they show.

He wondered if the charger/converter had two outputs - a charge circuit and a converter circuit. The answer is no. Each box has one + and one - lead coming out. The two outputs are in parallel (just like the old MagneTek one were). I haven't followed the wires completely, but it looks like those leads go straight to the batteries and then off to the rest of the coach.

One interesting thing we've found is what runs on the house side that I thought was on the automotive side. The power seats and dash radio are on the house side. No listening to the radio while driving until this is fixed. I had moved the navigator's seat forward while rotating it, and forgot to put it back. Jo Ann complained about the lack of leg room, and that's when I found that my seat wouldn't move, either.

Re: 12V -side question

Reply #60 –
Certainly a good test to charge, disconnect, and test the resting voltage of the batteries but I have been wondering about the battery cables.  We all know to keep the ends clean for good continuity but that is really only half of the connection.  The other half is the crimp inside to the wire which you cannot see.  It's quite possible that sometime in the past 20 years these cable ends got pretty covered with acidic battery deposits that may have worked themselves inside to the crimp area.  Cleaning would only remove the exterior deposits and combined with time a high resistance maybe the result and this does fit the symptoms.  So once you reconnect the batteries back up, check for a voltage with a meter connected with one test lead on the battery and the other at where the cables terminates -which would be under the white cover on the wall that is to the left of your batteries.  You will need to check both the positive and negative cables.  If access to the other end of the cable is difficult you can also just use a needle probe (or safety pin) on the voltmeter to poke through the outer jacket of the cable.  Hope this helps.
John Fitzgerald
1991 U300 (SAI) Side Aisle Island Bed 40'
Detroit 6V92 with Allison Retarder
Meridian (Boise), Idaho

Re: 12V -side question

Reply #61 –
John, that thought has been going though my mind some, too. The best solution would be to replace every cable and end with all new, but that isn't going to happen. What gets me is that all was working fine the last time we drove the coach, and now it doesn't work.

Re: 12V -side question

Reply #62 –
Kb0zke,
Great time to get the wiring diagrams out along with a reasonable DVM and start trouble shootin, surely the problem will appear under  normal situation when it worked before.
Should be reasonable to locate where it fails. ?
Sounds like a fun challenge.

Re: 12V -side question

Reply #63 –
FWIW
For the last few days I have been wondering if when you tested your battery voltage you also tested from + battery post to frame of coach.
Seems like that would go some way toward telling you something about the cables.
Elliott & Mary Bray
ex. 1996 36' U295 - Build 4879
ex. 2018 Coachmen Leprechaun 319MB
 

Re: 12V -side question

Reply #64 –
Quote from: TheBrays –
FWIW
For the last few days I have been wondering if when you tested your battery voltage you also tested from + battery post to frame of coach.
Seems like that would go some way toward telling you something about the cables.
As well as a resistance check from the battery negative to chassis ground.

Roland
1993 U280 4341
2010 Jeep Liberty
The Pied Pipers

Re: 12V -side question

Reply #65 –
FIXED!!! The schematic above shows three fuses, and I found only two under the white panel. The third one, it turns out, is located underneath the converters/chargers. One of the leads was somewhat loose. I tightened it up (power was off), turned the power back on and all looked good. Then I flipped the 120VAC off and the furnaces kept running. Lights were on in the bays that were open. Problem solved - I think.

As I think about it, I may want to add a lock washer to that connection, but that can wait for a warmer day.

Thanks to Kent Speers who helped point me at that connection. I had assumed that because the 12V stuff worked when plugged in all of the converter/charger area was find. Not so.

Re: 12V -side question

Reply #66 –
David,

Great! If you have a camera handy, please shoot a photo of the location and post it. Sure would be easy for anyone to miss. Good job.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: 12V -side question

Reply #67 –
Will do. It is 50 and sunny out, and we're going to straighten out the bays a bit, so it will be easy enough to take a couple of pictures and post them this evening.
 

Re: 12V -side question

Reply #68 –
Here are a couple of pictures. One shows the two chargers/converters sitting on the shelf where the old "battery cookers" sat. The other shows the missing breaker underneath the shelf.