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Foretravel (quick) inspection

This is going to be long!
I looked at a 15 year old 36' FT no slide with around 60K miles on it and original condition.  What is interesting is that this is the original owners and they think that it has been well maintained, in great condition and that it is worth a lot of $$.  It looks like NADA guides are pricing FT lower that what they should be and in this case the NADA says the retail is 45K , but the owner/seller is asking around 100K. They also say that everything has been well maintained, but what it really boils down to is that it has been kept inside (which is nice) and it has not been wrecked. 
Here is what I noted when I looked at it.
They think the tires are in great shape and their "mechanic" also said that the tires are good and have at least another 25K on them; however, the truth is the tires are the original tires that came with the coach 15 years ago--WOW, and that is just the beginning of this story.  It has all original brake pads, original house batteries, all original cooling and oil hoses on the Cummins, and original air bags and the coolant reservoir was empty  Power Tech gen has all the original cooling and fuel hoses.  They say the Aqua Hot worked fine so they have never done anything to it. The foam insulation in the engine compartment and the generator compartment has all deteriorated and is crumbling to pieces.  There are some scratches and nicks in the exterior decals.  The interior has all original (dated) carpeting and window treatments, and I have no idea if the washer/dryer works. both original AC, the ice maker in the original side by side Refer/freezer does not work.  I noted what looked like oil (grease) around the output shaft of the transmission going to the drive shaft; it looks like the seal may be leaking when running down the road.  Also noted some grease or oil stains around the round side of the rear air break chambers and I have no idea what that could mean. I asked how often he runs the engine and he said about every three weeks, so he started it up, sure it starts up and sounds like it should, but who knows?  He then disconnected shore power and moved it outside (see how it started fine when shore power was connected) then moved it back inside.  I asked if he could start the generator and click-click-click, I guess the generator starts off of the (15 year old) house batteries.
 I think this could be a nice FT for us but it is priced too high IMO and it could need quite a bit of work.  Also a refresh the interior and exterior graphics and maybe headlights would be in order to bring it up to the condition we would want it to be.  Anyone care to SWAG repair and upgrade cost? (thanks)
The conclusion to all this is that parking a MH in a garage does not mean it has been "well maintained".  This was my first crack at inspecting a MH and I only had 1.5 hours to look at it, I know I have a lot to learn so I would also have a pro do a pre buy inspection of any FT I would buy, but I am no rookie when it comes to diesel engines and mechanics .  The bottom line for us is that we will only be buying a FT, because now I know too much now to buy anything else!  Thanks to you all on the forum
Bill and Martha
No FT coach-yet!
SEL, Citabria 7KCAB

Re: Foretravel (quick) inspection

Reply #1 –
Quote from: nelo –
It looks like NADA guides are pricing FT lower that what they should be

If you search the forum for NADA, you'll find lots of discussion.  Bottom line is NADA is basically meaningless for valuing motorhomes unless you are trying to finance, in which case the bank will try to use them.

(Folks - Please let's not turn this into another NADA thread - we've beaten that topic to a pulp already ;)  )

A good place to check prices is the MOT website - that will give you a general idea of what year/trim level/length ranges go for.  A 15 year old, 36' coach without upgrades and having questionable maintenance is likely going to be somewhere on the low end of a $45-75K range.  Repair costs can't possibly be guessed at without knowing if those grease spots are issues, fluid analysis, etc., never mind the house systems.
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Foretravel (quick) inspection

Reply #2 –
Fifteen to Twenty grand to make it new IMO. Which exact model and floorplan?
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Foretravel (quick) inspection

Reply #3 –
Thanks Michelle, I am not trying to make a NADA discussion ( I have read quite a lot of those post here) out of this-just trying to make a point of reference and illustrate some obvious shortcomings with maintenance e.g. 15 year old tires' and perceived value. 

And thanks Calflashbob, I see that you are on to what I am trying illustrate and to base line some of the obvious problems or possible problems and I appreciate your feedback
Bill and Martha
No FT coach-yet!
SEL, Citabria 7KCAB

Re: Foretravel (quick) inspection

Reply #4 –
I would say with no upgrades you are looking at 10-15k to change hoses, batteries fluids, tires, fuel lines, batteries and air bags. The air bags may or may not need attention right away.  The main rear seal on my 320 needed to be changes. I would add change the air dryer and air filter too and get a mechanic to check the leaks. As to price I don't know the size or trim to help there.
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: Foretravel (quick) inspection

Reply #5 –
WE love our Foretravel and certainly think it is worth more than NADA, however; because we love it we take care of it and keep it in as good a condition as time and dollars will allow. To let one run down as this one seems to be means that they don't really like it at all. I'd offer them 30K or walk away. Who knows what is lurking under the paint and varnish? :-\
Larry
1996 U295 36'
Build # 4805
Actually we sold it but just like to lurk

Re: Foretravel (quick) inspection

Reply #6 –
I would send them to the MOT website, so they can see what similar machines are worth, and then walk away. You need to buy it for 30% of their desired price. No need to insult them, then need education and to sermon interest until realistically priced.

Chassis batteries about $200 each installed, house batteries about $600 each installed, tires about $650 each installed. And that is just the easy stuff.

Enjoy looking at it, and move on.
Tim Fiedler    2025 LTV Unity MBL on Order
2000 Chevy Tracker 2 Door Convertible 4WD Now lifted 4.5"
1985 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston
Murphy Rebel on wheels with 175HP Titan
Cessna P337
1980 48' Westport MY (!/4 Share)

Re: Foretravel (quick) inspection

Reply #7 –
A 15 year old coach with ONLY 60K seems like it was not driven very much. It may have been used well in the beginning, but the last several years it may have been pretty stationary. Our '02 has twice that mileage. With your prior knowledge of diesel engines and the education to be had on this Forum ... you are WELL prepared to investigate a prospective purchase. Have fun looking!!!  We spent more than $10K renovating the interior of our '93 U225 ... tile floor, reupholstering sofa, chairs dash and valances and some other remodel. We spent at least that on wood valances, MCD shades and some other things in our '95. We are beyond that on the interior of our '02, and it is a work in progress.  the latest being a residential fridge.  $15K - $20K is a good estimate, although the sky is the limit ... or your wallet!
Carol & Jeff Savournin
Usta have a '93 U225 36', Usta have a '95 U320 40', Usta have a '02 U320 40'
Usta have a 2006 Born Free, Usta have a 2011 Phoenix Cruiser
Usta have a 2012 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited 4dr
"Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life."  Steve Jobs

Re: Foretravel (quick) inspection

Reply #8 –
For the moment ignore the tires, batteries, hoses, and stuff like that that can be easily changed (only takes money). What about the floor plan? What about the exterior colors? If you like the layout and the exterior isn't some awful color and IF you are willing to tackle the mechanical stuff you could show them what NADA says the coach is worth, point out the problems, and offer what you think the coach is worth. If they accept your offer, fine. If not, go elsewhere. In this information age buyers know what things are worth, and if a seller tries to price the item too high it simply won't sell.

Re: Foretravel (quick) inspection

Reply #9 –
There is always going to be huge valve in any coach stored inside to me.  But if the decals are scratched or starting to peel, know that can be a $5-7000 upgrade.  Headlights, $3,500, TV's $1,000, replace the RV refer with new RV another $3,300 maybe if it is side by side.  Fuel lines are $2,000 as many of us know.  The figures mentioned of $15,000-$20,000 are maybe even light.  And to start and run every 3 weeks, without a drive to warm everything, is maybe the worst thing to have been done thru the years.

Know also as you go forward, that there are going to be things needing replacement, repair, or upgrade that will take all sorts of different amounts of time and energy.  Buyers will panic over tires or batteries, but either of them are just a 3-4 hours deal, and a single check and you are done with all in a day.  The headlight upgrade is a week of your life as the work is completed, and you are out of your coach all day for 4-5 days at FOT.

Figure your costs, compare with the coaches that have been done, make your offer, and then move on.  There are very nice deals always coming along.  Buy the right coach, not a coach right now!
Dave Cobb
Buckhorn Lake Resort The Club, #6202, Kerrville TX
check the map.  I do rent it out when I am traveling!
2001, U320, 36' #5887, in Kerrville, FT Club #17006, (7/23 to present)
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L, Summit, white
EX: 98 U295, 36' #5219, (mid door), (4/13-10/23)
EX: 93 U225, 36' (4/11 to 4/13)

Re: Foretravel (quick) inspection

Reply #10 –
It is a 99 36' U320.  I do like it and it would be a great coach to work on, but as so many have pointed out the purchase price is way to high. The owners are older and they really think their coach is the best and I tell them they are right FT are great. So I gently started out by telling them about the 15 year old tires and the 15 year old batteries, but I don't think they are getting it, so I am not going to pick apart their coach. They are also pretty sure they want to get what they are asking, so a couple of days ago I did tell them to contact FOT and talk to them about price or maybe they should just keep it.  They are to old to use it, so it will just keep sitting like I think it has been doing for many years.  Its to bad to see that happen to the coach, it should be brought back to life and used the way it was intended.   
Bill and Martha
No FT coach-yet!
SEL, Citabria 7KCAB

Re: Foretravel (quick) inspection

Reply #11 –
As you shop, understand their are many things that make a 320, like the larger diesel, that the 295, or 270 don't have.  Most 320's have the Aqua Hot, and all the many smaller details lacking on my 295, or the 270s'.  The fuel lines material used have been a problem in the 98 and 99 years as some of us know.

It is so hard to get some sellers to take the emotions out of the value when they are selling.  Sending them to MOT for some pricing help was a good suggestion. 
Dave Cobb
Buckhorn Lake Resort The Club, #6202, Kerrville TX
check the map.  I do rent it out when I am traveling!
2001, U320, 36' #5887, in Kerrville, FT Club #17006, (7/23 to present)
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L, Summit, white
EX: 98 U295, 36' #5219, (mid door), (4/13-10/23)
EX: 93 U225, 36' (4/11 to 4/13)

Re: Foretravel (quick) inspection

Reply #12 –
A lot of people have unrealistic price expectations based on a possible loan value still outstanding.

Correct decision on your part you'll find the perfect coach.
Tim Fiedler    2025 LTV Unity MBL on Order
2000 Chevy Tracker 2 Door Convertible 4WD Now lifted 4.5"
1985 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston
Murphy Rebel on wheels with 175HP Titan
Cessna P337
1980 48' Westport MY (!/4 Share)

Re: Foretravel (quick) inspection

Reply #13 –
Having had a great U295, one of the details in our U320 that we like so much was sills on windows in the salon. Go figure...

And we are one of those that like the Aqua Hot very much. And much more.

best, paul

Quote
As you shop, understand their are many things that make a 320, like the larger diesel, that the 295, or 270 don't have.
1999 U320 40' 1200 watts on roof. 12cf AC/DC Cold plate fridge/freezer. VMS 240 CL Honda Element

Re: Foretravel (quick) inspection

Reply #14 –
In the biz I would call these folks monthly or so to see if reality had set in yet.

personally  I would pay a fair amount for that exact coach.  Rare to some extent.

$80k? Fixed.  $60k as-is?  That's retail of course.  As a dealer I would like to pay less.

But on paper I would show them more money against the price of the newer coach I was selling them. 

Someone needs to trade them something they can be convinced is worth more money than it really is?

Or buy it from their heirs some day. 

If they get that much then all of ours went up in value. 

Normal for some folks to use up "the good" in something then sell it. That's how they probably have done lots of things.

"Never gave me no problems" stuff.

"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Foretravel (quick) inspection

Reply #15 –
This is some really great input from you all and I am glad to hear that even though it is a Foretravel I need to be realistic!
I have gone through a bunch of MH research and at first I thought it would be a Monaco Dynasty, then I thought it would be a Country Coach Magna-all of them in the 10-15 year old vintage.  Than Foretravel got my interest and that is the one that stuck.  I have not learned my lesson (the old saying about renting vs. buying) has not worked for me and I am still a buyer.
I was a boater for many years, first with sail, then I got the trawler bug and we had a 37' Hershine trawler that had many upgrades on it and I continued to make improvements, and then I just had to have a Grand Banks woodie, I cut out and put in all new black iron tanks-110 gal each, new 120HP diesel, new wiring, battery banks and on and on by myself. Next it was a small 2 place airplane and you guessed it-upgrade and replace this and that on and on (under supervision and help an AP IA mechanic).  Every one of those boats I was lucky to get half of what I had in to it when I sold, not counting my free sweat equity.  I guess I am getting a little smarter and now would like to get something already well maintained, but if the price is right?  I know that there will be maintenance on any coach and I am OK with that, but you don't always get back what you put into a depreciating asset.  I do like what Dave and Dolly said "Buy the right coach, not a coach right now"
I still look forward to any and all input.
Thanks
Bill
Bill and Martha
No FT coach-yet!
SEL, Citabria 7KCAB

Re: Foretravel (quick) inspection

Reply #16 –
Country Coach Magna in that era is pretty sweet.
"When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car."
 

Re: Foretravel (quick) inspection

Reply #17 –
I have always heard if it flys or floats- Rent it
Jerry & Nanci
1999 U270 34'WTFI
2011 Malibu
A smart man knows what to say, a wise man knows when to say it.