ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Topic: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations (Read 2016 times) previous topic - next topic

ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

February 14, 2015, 10:10:44 pm

Good batteries, cranks with vigor but no smoke. The coach is in Montgomery TX but I am completely unfamiliar with this electronic engine, strange filtration Winn? Looks like a whole bunch of sensors have to be thumbs up to light the fire. Committed to having it towed but where's a good facility? Would appreciate recommendations on where to send, NAC or Houston, elsewhere?

Re: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Reply #1 – February 14, 2015, 10:20:49 pm

If I were in your shoes, would be thinking of Cummins Factory shop, not a mom & pop type.
Shop with the computer and trained tech, will track it down quickly unless it is like John H problem with loose/poor wiring, if a sensor, the computer will find it fast.

Re: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Reply #2 – February 14, 2015, 10:24:06 pm

Quote from: Dave M – February 14, 2015, 10:20:49 pm

If I were in your shoes, would be thinking of Cummins Factory shop

+1 and hopefully someone like Rudy has a recommendation for that area.

Re: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Reply #3 – February 14, 2015, 10:26:33 pm

Cummins is about 50 miles from you and Nacogdoches is about 140. Sounds like a fuel problem. Have you tried purging the fuel filter with the Winn system? How long have you been sitting?

Re: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Reply #4 – February 14, 2015, 10:35:51 pm

Yeah, good thinking, agree a Cummins shop is way to go. Southern plains, when I talked to them a while back seemed not interested in coach work at all "well, in a couple weeks maybe."

Tried the purge, couldn't see or hear any indication of a pump running. Been two months since run.

Re: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Reply #5 – February 14, 2015, 10:47:07 pm

Chuck,

If you want to tow to Channelview, I know the truck fix it place and like it a bunch better than Cummins Southern Plains. Let me know if this is helpful and I will get you the info for a Monday contact.

You might bypass the Winn system and see if it will start.

You might search the net or ask a trucker for the mobile diesel mech that serves that area. Someone gets broke down trucks going out that way.

Re: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Reply #6 – February 14, 2015, 11:02:45 pm

Thanks Rudy, I'd greatly appreciate contact info for the Channelview place.

As for bypassing the Winn system, since there's zero fuel smoke, thinking its not a plugged filter, acts more like no fuel pump. But no familiarity with this engine or fuel sys, i'm like a pig staring at a pocket watch.

Re: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Reply #7 – February 15, 2015, 12:00:09 am

Chuck- since you think it might be fuel issue, have you updated your fuel lines yet? If you get enough air in a crack or cracks, it will stop you cold? Something else for the shop to look at- hope all goes well for you.

Re: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Reply #8 – February 15, 2015, 12:02:13 am

Also, don't you have an ISC in your U295? If so, could be a bad lift pump. Much better a lift pump than a fuel pump- less $$$

Re: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Reply #9 – February 15, 2015, 12:26:31 am

It is not something I do often but if it is a fuel or air issue or sensor problem, you could try using ether. I had an engine position sensor go out and I could not start it as it would not open up the fuel. The ether shot caused it to work and I could take it in under its own power to cummins.

Re: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Reply #10 – February 15, 2015, 06:30:14 am

My coach has a 6c mechanical, this is my sisters coach with the ism. It actually has an ether canister with a trigger on the dash, factory installed. Canister appears to be empty so maybe will get some and give a try. And yes, fuel lines are suspect, its been getting just a little harder to start each time seems like.

Re: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Reply #11 – February 15, 2015, 08:56:38 am

Chuck,

Alan Lassetter has forgotten more about big truck repair and Allison Transmission repair than most men know. He is a man of very good character to boot.

He is in Channelview on Ashland street. Call 281.457.5003 to catch him at the large shop he owns.

He is very busy so call to get on the schedule.

He is big truck oriented, so staying over night in the coach is not available. But his work is excellent and he does not mind working on motorhomes.

For staying over night in the coach, Bernd Ramspeck in Nac is the answer for big truck type of repairs.

As for acting like no fuel pump, a leaking Winn will mean no fuel to the engine as I understand the situation.

Re: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Reply #12 – February 15, 2015, 09:02:09 am

Is this what you have on the coach
http://www.rvsurvey.com/Documents/winnfuelsystem.pdf

Re: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Reply #13 – February 15, 2015, 10:18:39 am

Howdy Stump,
Thanks for posting that informative link!!!
Dave A

Re: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Reply #14 – February 15, 2015, 04:44:35 pm

Thanks for the reference Rudy, appreciate it.

Cranked it on ether for a few seconds but its not picking up on fuel, suspect a pump problem. As it turns out, June has an appt at ft in a few days but since its for all mechanical service Alan or Berndt sounds more appropriate. Suspect a fuel line change is needed along with filters fluids brakes etc.

Stump, that's the system, appreciate the info. The Winn pump appears dead. Thinking about a Davco system to replace.

Be on the horn in the am to talk with these folks. Thanks to all for the help.

Re: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Reply #15 – February 16, 2015, 07:43:13 am

Chuck
When I had fuel issues in NAC Berndt and crew fixed up a temporary fuel tank.
See pictures at And for the next installment...
Ran a fuel line from a 5 gallon tank to the input of the lift pump and one from the return.

Might be a way to diagnose your issue.

Re: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Reply #16 – February 16, 2015, 07:58:55 am

Does the ISM use a fuel shutoff solenoid, or is that only on the mechanical engines (like mine)?

Re: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Reply #17 – February 16, 2015, 08:12:16 am

Quote from: Chuck Pearson – February 15, 2015, 04:44:35 pm

Thanks for the reference Rudy, appreciate it.

Cranked it on ether for a few seconds but its not picking up on fuel, suspect a pump problem. As it turns out, June has an appt at ft in a few days but since its for all mechanical service Alan or Berndt sounds more appropriate. Suspect a fuel line change is needed along with filters fluids brakes etc.

Stump, that's the system, appreciate the info. The Winn pump appears dead. Thinking about a Davco system to replace.

Be on the horn in the am to talk with these folks. Thanks to all for the help.
There usually is some kind of check valve in the return line to keep the fuel from bleeding down to the tank when they sit,it can take quite a bit to get the air out of the system if has done that, hence the prime pump on the filter system.

Re: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Reply #18 – February 16, 2015, 08:51:20 am

Taking another stab at this before giving up. Pulled the Winn filters, going to replace o rings and new water step. Not much fuel in the filters, hoping o rings will help here. A question though, assuming the Winn pump is working, should I leave the water step loose and bleed air out? Is this little pump capable of pulling fuel all the way from tank to prime? Will it prime secondary filter or is this necessary??

Re: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Reply #19 – February 16, 2015, 09:07:09 am

Quote from: Chuck Pearson – February 16, 2015, 08:51:20 am

Taking another stab at this before giving up. Pulled the Winn filters, going to replace o rings and new water step. Not much fuel in the filters, hoping o rings will help here.

Chuck, see also Racor replacement for Winn system

Racor and Winn fuel filters and housing

Re: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Reply #20 – February 16, 2015, 09:34:02 am

Chuck if you can pre fill your filters before you put them on then if you can get that winn prime pump too work run it. It might take quite a few cycles to purge the air out of the system. It sounds too me like the engine lost it's prime from sitting that long. My Peterbilt with a series 60 Detroit used to do that when the check valve started going bad letting fuel seep back into the tank.

Re: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Reply #21 – February 16, 2015, 10:06:05 am

Fixed my Winn several times. Constant air leaks. Replace.

Re: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Reply #22 – February 16, 2015, 10:17:10 am

Chuck,
Our 95 with the Winn system started having the same issue. Replaced the Winn and no more problems. Some owners carry a nipple with them to bypass it anticipating its failure. I think I would bypass it to at least eliminate it as the problem. Here's a photo of what I replaced ours with. Good luck.
jor

Re: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Reply #23 – February 16, 2015, 12:51:03 pm

My Wynn pump dies and couldn't purge. Apparently leaked enough that air entered system will staying in New Orleans. Mechanic filled filter and injected air filter with starting fluid. Engine started and ran, roughly at first until all air was purged. When I returned home I connected ground on the ether start directly to ground bypassing temp sensor. Had to start a couple of more times with ether start until I replaced Wynn with new unit.

Re: ISM cranks but no start, need service recommendations

Reply #24 – February 17, 2015, 01:52:52 pm

An aha! plus an uh-oh. Went thru the Winn system and replaced O rings and filters and determined that the Winn prime pump is truly dead. One discovery, after cleaning up the "clear" prefilter bowl, significant pieces of rubber material trapped in there. Fuel line time.

I'm reasonably certain this is at the root of the no start problem, and know the fuel lines need replacement so had a nice chat with Mr. Ramspeck, the coach will be towed to Nac. As Michelle and others have suggested, the Winn will hit the trash can and the latest Racor will take its place.

I believe this will resolve the problem, only so many things can go wrong at one time, right?

Thanks again to everyone for your help in diagnosis and solutions.

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