Fuel Lines Hours Charged

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Fuel Lines Hours Charged

May 13, 2015, 04:46:00 pm

Can someone post the number of hours charged when replacing the fuel delivery & return lines? It would be much appreciated. I am having the lines replaced at Cummins Bridgeway in Cincinnati and I don't think they have ever done this job yet. I assume the fuel hoses are fairly expensive. If anyone has some detaill on that cost, it would also be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Two years ago Cummins replaced the lines & fittings from the fuel=water separator to the lift pump. I am assuming that when Berndt or FOT, MOT replaces the fuel lines, this section of hose is also replaced.

Re: Fuel Lines Hours Charged

Reply #1 – May 13, 2015, 04:57:38 pm

I don't know about hours charged, but I recently bought the hose from a Houston wholesaler. The hose cost for 80' was $160, about $2 per foot. This was not the silicon house, but a high quality Parker U.S. Made fuel line.

Re: Fuel Lines Hours Charged

Reply #2 – May 13, 2015, 06:42:00 pm

Good price on the Parker if it is 3/8". Suitable for B100 bio-diesel also. This is generator size. You may want to go to larger ID for the long run back to the engine. The friction loss mounts up as most of the fuel comes back in the return line. Check the article on fuel line sizes at: Technical Article Number Two - The Diesel Fuel System and Inlet Line Too small ID may be responsible for the Cummins lift pump failures because of cavitation. Some good photos of cracks in the fuel lines at Barry's info site.

Pierce

Re: Fuel Lines Hours Charged

Reply #3 – May 13, 2015, 08:42:01 pm

The hose I bought was 1/2" ID for both return and supply.

Re: Fuel Lines Hours Charged

Reply #4 – May 14, 2015, 07:26:55 pm

Peter

Had my fuel lines, return lines, generator lines, etc all replaced at Bernd's and the hours were approximately19 hours . They did replace all the lines including the one from the primary fuel /water separator to the lift pump. They did remove the fuel tank and put new fittings on. Fuel lines were $695 plus fittings. Seems to be working well on our trip from NAC to Natchez, MS, then on to Cincinnati area. I am up in Wilmington now, at Thousand Trails. Call me at 513 325 2519 if you want to discuss this.

Ted

Re: Fuel Lines Hours Charged

Reply #5 – May 14, 2015, 07:32:15 pm

Peter

If your lift pump is original, you might want to talk to them about the "new improved " one they have that is supposed to work well with ULSD and Biodiesel etc. Had mine replaced a year ago while they were in there. Being full time, I didn't want to have an issue with it down the road in the middle of nowhere. Food for thought.

Ted

Re: Fuel Lines Hours Charged

Reply #6 – May 14, 2015, 08:07:23 pm

Thanks much Ted. Cummins so far replaced the genset lines a few years back, and the front end lines from the fuel water separator forward. Mike at Cummins thinks he can do the lines in about 8 hours. So I think Berndt charged about the right amount of hours for your job. The cost of the fuel lines scares me a bit LOL...

Re: Fuel Lines Hours Charged

Reply #7 – May 14, 2015, 08:13:03 pm

Yours should be less then mine as I have AH and the steel beam on the drivers side made it harder. It was three guys at FOT a full day and half of the next so it was about 12 hours to do it. They charged me about 2800 for three men a day and a half.

Re: Fuel Lines Hours Charged

Reply #8 – May 14, 2015, 08:43:54 pm

Not to mention that your coach is 42 ft long and Forrest is a shorty at 34 ft...

Re: Fuel Lines Hours Charged

Reply #9 – May 16, 2015, 06:10:45 am

I just got a quote from Bernd R Yesterday--- 28 hours plus $895 for the hose. Total of $3300!
This for a 96' U320 with Aqua Hot. I have opted to go to a local RV shop a few miles from our home near Kemah, Tx. Their quote was less than half of Bernd's, and they are familiar with Foretravel. I'll advise how it turns out.

Re: Fuel Lines Hours Charged

Reply #10 – May 16, 2015, 08:15:05 am

I am waiting for Bernd's quote via email, but for my 40' U-320 his verbal quote was $3,000 labor plus hoses.........

Re: Fuel Lines Hours Charged

Reply #11 – May 16, 2015, 09:43:17 am

Sounds like they're beginning to overcharge for this job. Granted, Forrest is only a 34 footer so less hose is needed. But the number of hours seems high. I suppose it's okay if the charge is $45 per hour. So how much does Berndt's shop charge for tech hours?

Here's what I'll do. Cummins will be finished with the coach next week Friday May 22. I will post the bill details because there's a lot of work being done, and these bills are difficult to figure out...no joke.

I always provide the Chevron Delo 400 as Cummins does not use this brand in their Bridgeway shops. So this will be excluded from all the work being done. The estimate for the below work is $2,900.00 and I will provide the final bill details. Below is the detail I provided Mike at Cummins for the work to be done:

Cummins Bridgeway
Since last service on April 30, 2013 Driven 2,636.4 miles, 70 engine hours
Peter Martin, 995 Castlebay, Cincinnati, OH 45245 Cel 513-484-9846

1997 Foretravel U270 WTBI 34'
Model Number: F97515634WTBIU270CE25
VIN.: 1F97D534XVN054563
Foretravel Factory Unit No. 5156
Foretravel Motorcoach Tech Assistance 800-955-6226 x259
All Foretravel Specs & information at Barry and Darlene Brideau's Personal Website (Barry and Darlene Brideau's Personal Website)

ENGINE:   Cummins C8.3
Serial No.   45473701
TRANS:   Allison MD-3060R 6 speed
Serial No.   6510092238

1.   Check (2) Start Batteries state of charge. Please use "BOOST" rocker switch on left of driver position to assist in starting engine.
2.   Oil & Filter change: Chevron DELO 400 20 quarts provided by customer located inside coach.
3.   Inspect coolant was replaced 2013. R&R coolant filter & ELC Type Fleetguard Compleat
4.   Inspect transmission fluid & Replace filter only. S/B regular duty A/T Fluid???
5.   R&R primary & secondary fuel filters
6.   Replace fuel supply & return lines & fittings from fuel tank to/from engine (fuel filter/water separator lines to lift pump were Replaced @ this shop with 6 ft of fuel hose & 2 fittings in 2013 (fuel tank is at 1/4 full eventhough fuel gauge shows more. 150 gallon tank should have approximately 40 gallons fuel). May call Factory for procedure as needed. Storage tray mid-coach can slide out of the way as needed to fish lines.
7.   Chassis Lube (exclude disc brake calipers)
8.   Inspect Rear Axle: Differential API GL-5; 85W140-Replacd fluid 2013
9.   Perform all chassis safety checks, including:
a.   inspect brake slack adjusters for proper functioning, wear & operation
b.   Inspect Front Axle hub oilers (please install new hub cap located inside coach passenger seat)
c.   Engine belts/belt tensioners
d.   Hydraulic fluid supply tank (uses Chevron Delo 400)
e.   Air compressor & dryer

10.   Charge dash A/C R134a. High/Low pressure switches cutting out compressor. Slow leak not detectable. Check for leaks & Recharge.
11.   Power Tech Generator:
a.   Change oil & Filter (5 qts. Oil Chevron Delo 400 8 qts. provided by owner located inside coach. Please leave remaining 3 qts. Oil inside coach.)
b.   Inspect genset coolant replace as needed.
c.   Replace fuel filter

Re: Fuel Lines Hours Charged

Reply #12 – May 16, 2015, 09:51:19 am

Everybody says fuel lines are so hard, etc...including Bernd himself. I've spent a lot of time under my Fortravel and I dont see anything particularly time consuming other than removing the fuel tank (if needed). Yes, it is a pain, but you can leave the old fuel lines in place if you wish and just run the new ones. It takes time, but it's just fishing them along the tray that holds the lines.

I'll let ya know when I do mine (myself, of course).

Re: Fuel Lines Hours Charged

Reply #13 – May 16, 2015, 09:59:30 am

Bernd replaced the fuel lines in our U320 last August.

They removed the fuel tank.

And it was almost full! (Fuel lines were not known to be a problem before Bernd discovered it)

It was good they had 55 gal drums around ;o)

best, paul

Re: Fuel Lines Hours Charged

Reply #14 – May 16, 2015, 10:08:19 am

Imagine the labor cost in California where it's $100-$120/hr.

Pierce

Re: Fuel Lines Hours Charged

Reply #15 – May 16, 2015, 10:48:27 am

Ohio is not that cheap either. Cummins is about $115 per hour. That's the reason I believe the folks in TX are a bit if not a lot high for this job. Then again Forrest does not have an Aqua Hot to feed diesel to. So the total hours I think should be charged may be off. Forrest's fuel supply & return lines only are 8 hours. Remember that I had the 6 feet of hose from the fuel-water separator to the fuel pump replaces two years ago. My best guess looking at that bill, 4 hours at $100 plus $100 for 6 feet of hose and fittings. Add that to this job and the total is around $2,000 total labor & parts (no AH).

Re: Fuel Lines Hours Charged

Reply #16 – May 16, 2015, 11:50:01 am

After I got home I noticed Bernd had not charged me for one item.

I asked Bernd to tell me how much I owed him. Repeatedly.

He never replied.

It took me a while to figure it out.

Bernd is from the old school. "The omission was HIS problem, not mine."

So I believe and trust Bernd.

best, paul

Re: Fuel Lines Hours Charged

Reply #17 – May 16, 2015, 11:58:37 am

Peter,

You make a good point about labor charges. Since our coaches are mobile (most of the time), it pays to do some research before letting just any shop do the work. I can still remember when going into the Ford dealer in my dad's home town of Comanche, TX and seeing the $17/hr labor sign on the wall vs the $44/hr charge in my hometown in California. Even then, I was surprised at the hourly rate in San Francisco where they have been over $100 for as long as I can remember. Mechanics are good mechanics regardless of where they work. Heading down into our central valley, many small towns have upholstery shops that do good work for a fraction of the price big city shops charge but it takes a bit of asking around to make the connection.

Anyone consider a run for the border to a Cummins or Detroit shop? Lots of truck shops that can R&R the tank for a hose change. Allison has a factory there where a member had their transmission rebuilt for half the price quoted in their hometown.

Pierce

Re: Fuel Lines Hours Charged

Reply #18 – May 16, 2015, 11:58:52 am

Peter & Beth, consider cleaning brake slide pins? and how do you assure yourself the tech won't squirt some chassis grease in the 3 brake zerks? FYI, we now spray Corrosion X, then wipe it off on slide pins.

Re: Fuel Lines Hours Charged

Reply #19 – May 16, 2015, 12:11:35 pm

Barry,
This Cummins shop and shop manager (Mike) have known me for the past 10 years. I always remind them every time I go in for annual maintenance that the disk brakes are to be left alone. I trust them. Knock on wood so far so good with all the work they've done on Forrest. I've never encountered an unfinished job. I am very satisfied, and I can refer them to any Foreforum member without hesitation. Just tell them Peter sent you...

Re: Fuel Lines Hours Charged

Reply #20 – May 16, 2015, 03:08:49 pm

Bernd's labor rate is $99 per hour, $89 if you are a member of Motorcade club. Most other's are $110.
The only real problem with changing the lines yourself is TIME and three rectangular clamps located just in front of the differential that must be removed in order to pull the new line. In addition, there seems to be about a hundred tie wraps in the wire way where you have to work. The other problem is getting to the fittings on the tank top.

Re: Fuel Lines Hours Charged

Reply #21 – May 16, 2015, 03:32:19 pm

When comparing different shop rates; keep in mind that Bern'd removes the fuel tank, replaces all fitting, and run the new line from the front all the way to the back. Some shops splice the lines. He also filters the fuel going back into the tank. The price is not cheap but cheap should not be a consideration with fuel lines. IMHO

Re: Fuel Lines Hours Charged

Reply #22 – May 16, 2015, 03:39:34 pm

Good point.

When Bernd removed 180 or so gals into 55 gal drums, I was worried and then pleasatly surprised the fuel was not contaminated.

best, paul

Re: Fuel Lines Hours Charged

Reply #23 – May 16, 2015, 04:38:14 pm

Here is an example of one end of one of my 10 year old fuel lines. Very inflexible , very dirty. Had Bernd replace all of them.

Re: Fuel Lines Hours Charged

Reply #24 – May 16, 2015, 08:23:24 pm

That fuel line doesn't look great, but it also doesn't look compromised and may have had a bit of life left in it.

What is Bernd using for replacement fuel line?

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