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The retarder quit working

The retarder quit working on the very last stop last night as I slowed to turn into the RV park here in West Yellowstone.  This is my first real test of our new-to-us U-320.  It has been an eventful trip and I will post a full report when I eventually go home, but right now I need to get the retarder working.

I figure it probably just a fuse, since everything worked great until last night.  The switch is "ON", the joystick is activated, but the retarder light is off and the retarder is not operating.  I can't find the fuse.  Where is it located?  Any other hints?

Thanks,
Glen
Glen Kenney
Colmesneil, Tx
Former owner of
1997 40' U320
Build # 5099

Re: The retarder quit working

Reply #1 –
Perhaps a long shot.  I learned that the retarder will quit working if it thinks it is getting too hot.  In my case the temp. wire came off the transmission case and threw a high temp code.  There is a way to get the transmission pad to show stored codes.  My high temp alarm sounded, at the time, but not the next day on the way to Allison for code reading and reset.

I learned I really like the retarder when it is working, and really really miss it when it does not.
Dave Cobb
Buckhorn Lake Resort The Club, #6202, Kerrville TX
check the map.  I do rent it out when I am traveling!
2001, U320, 36' #5887, in Kerrville, FT Club #17006, (7/23 to present)
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L, Summit, white
EX: 98 U295, 36' #5219, (mid door), (4/13-10/23)
EX: 93 U225, 36' (4/11 to 4/13)

Re: The retarder quit working

Reply #2 –
To check for Allison codes:

Key on, engine off.  Push the up and down arrows on the Allison shift pad at the same time.  Push them again.

That will bring up d-1 and if any diagnostic codes it will flash the two, two digit codes.  If there is a d-1, after recording, push the mode button to bring up d-2.  Repeat until d-? comes up -- --.

Turn of ignition or hit D to exit.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: The retarder quit working

Reply #3 –
Dave, like you, I have already learned to really like the retarder.  It is a joy to let it help control the speed on long decents.  I have read enough to know to watch the temperature, and so far I've not seen the temperature climb but just slightly above the 200º F mark on the analogue gauge.

Brett, I took your advice to check the Allison for codes.  I went through d-5 and found no codes.

We're about to take the toad and visit a couple of "must see's" in Yellowstone.  I'll check again this evening.  Thanks fellas.

Glen
Glen Kenney
Colmesneil, Tx
Former owner of
1997 40' U320
Build # 5099

Re: The retarder quit working

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Glockjock –


Brett, I took your advice to check the Allison for codes.  I went through d-5 and found no codes.

Glen

As soon as you get the first d-"whatever number" and then a -- --, there are no more codes.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: The retarder quit working

Reply #5 –
Glenn, your dash transmission temp is likely just the transmission.  The retarder temp is a different sensor.  With VMspc you can monitor them both.  Tranmission temp will run about 10 degree above coolant temp.  Retarder temp will jump quickly to 230 or more.  Much more than that and it is time to be downshifting on grades to let the engine help keep rpms up and increase cooling.

Roger
Roger Engdahl and Susan Green
2001 U320 3610 #5879 (Home2) - 2014 Jeep Cherokee or 2018 F150
Hastings, MN

Re: The retarder quit working

Reply #6 –
The locating of the retarder temp output requires some searching as I understand it to locate the senders output in the bundle.

Silver leaf does not show it on my 97.

I know it's in the coach as I purposely got the trans warning light to come on on a long grade.

And the trans temp gauge had hardly moved

Two miles on flat ground and the warning light went out
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: The retarder quit working

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Caflashbob –
The locating of the retarder temp output requires some searching as I understand it to locate the senders output in the bundle.

Silver leaf does not show it on my 97.

Interestingly, on our 1995 U320 the dash gauge appears to read retarder output temperature since it rises quite quickly when the retarder is used on a downgrade. However, the VMSpc appears to read transmission temperature since it rises much more slowly. I like having both readouts available.
David and Carolyn Osborn
1995 U320C SE 40' Build 4726 Feb 1995
FMCA 147762
Motorcade 17186

Re: The retarder quit working

Reply #8 –
Glen,
Sorry to hear about your problem.  The good thing is that it really isn't a must have,  most brands don't have it, although it is a very desirable feature in the mountains where you are.  Enjoy the park and work on it later, just make sure nothing is leaking.
Jerry Whiteaker former owner 96 U270  36' #4831 Austin,TX-Owner Mods LCD TV w/front cabinet rebuild - LCD TV bedroom - Dual Central AC, either can cool coach w 30 amp - Skylights at roof AC openings - Drop ceiling for ducting of AC - Shower skylight white gelcoat/wood/epoxy frame - Air Springs/Shocks replaced - 2014 CRV - 8K Home Solar - Chevy Volt

Re: The retarder quit working

Reply #9 –
Glen,

I would raise the coach and block it safely, then look at the retarder itself.  Make sure a wire hasn't come loose, and especially that the mounting bracket hasn't failed.  FT supplies a new heavily gusseted design because of past failures.
Regards,
Brett

'99 42' Foretravel Xtreme
'14 Brown Motorsports Stacker
'05 Chevy SSR
'02 BMW R1150R

Re: The retarder quit working

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Roger and Susan in Home2 –
Glenn, your dash transmission temp is likely just the transmission.  The retarder temp is a different sensor.  With VMspc you can monitor them both.  Tranmission temp will run about 10 degree above coolant temp.  Retarder temp will jump quickly to 230 or more.  Much more than that and it is time to be downshifting on grades to let the engine help keep rpms up and increase cooling.
\

Roger,

We've tried getting the retarder temp on our Silverleaf, as well as transmission temp (which we already have on the display, as well as the analogy gauge).  I'll admit we didn't spend a lot of time on the project, because we were enroute from Rhode Island to South Carolina, and Susan was reading the VMspc documentation, while helping me navigate the northeast corridor. 

To the extent you remember (you may have had your system set up a long time), is there a key to getting the retarder temp on screen, as well as the basic transmission temp?

Thanks!

PS:  By the way, we're very much part of the "love the retarder" fan club, too.  Gary Omel told us right after we bought the coach, learn to use it well and you'll love it.  Haven't tackled the Rockies yet, but there is a nice descent along I-26 in western North Carolina. Set the retarder and didn't have to touch the brakes.
The selected media item is not currently available.Richard & Susan Peck
____________________
1999 40' U320 "Bob Patrick"
(2000 4010 U320 WTFE Floor Plan, Single Slide)
Build #5567  |  MC #17522

Re: The retarder quit working

Reply #11 –
 Richard,
  Attached is a screen shot of my setup.
  If you want--I could send you the file.
            Jim
Jim & Doreen
2003 U320

 "Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day, rarely of what they had seen"
― Louis L'Amour

Re: The retarder quit working

Reply #12 –
Quote from: jtm2014 –
Richard,
  Attached is a screen shot of my setup.
  If you want--I could send you the file.
            Jim
Jim,

Nice set up.  I'd love the file.  I'll PM an email address, thanks!

The selected media item is not currently available.Richard & Susan Peck
____________________
1999 40' U320 "Bob Patrick"
(2000 4010 U320 WTFE Floor Plan, Single Slide)
Build #5567  |  MC #17522

Re: The retarder quit working

Reply #13 –
Richard, the retarder temp uses PID 120. You can make a gauge that will show that.  PID 121 is retarder status and PID 122 is retarder %. I have not been able to make those two work.

My screen is in the attached picture.  I like the big lights together the let me know all is OK. Retarder temp is to the rt of transmission temp.  Quarter sawn white oak background ... Woodworker in me.

I can send it to you to play with.

Roger
Roger Engdahl and Susan Green
2001 U320 3610 #5879 (Home2) - 2014 Jeep Cherokee or 2018 F150
Hastings, MN

Re: The retarder quit working

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Roger and Susan in Home2 –
Richard, the retarder temp uses PID 120. You can make a gauge that will show that.  PID 121 is retarder status and PID 122 is retarder %. I have not been able to make those two work.

My screen is in the attached picture.  I like the big lights together the let me know all is OK. Retarder temp is to the rt of transmission temp.  Quarter sawn white oak background ... Woodworker in me.

I can send it to you to play with.

Roger


I think you have the 9 pin output plug?  the earlier ones had 6 pins.  retarder temp seems to be harder to get on the earlier units
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4
 

Re: The retarder quit working

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Caflashbob –
I think you have the 9 pin output plug?  the earlier ones had 6 pins.  retarder temp seems to be harder to get on the earlier units
Thankfully, we have the 9-pin output plug in our 1999.

Roger, love to have your configuration file.  Jim was kind enough to send one.  But I'm learning and it will be great to see what everyone has done.  It's really interesting to see how all of us have set up our screens.  Probably would be a good separate thread:  submit your VMSpc screen captures!  :-)

The selected media item is not currently available.Richard & Susan Peck
____________________
1999 40' U320 "Bob Patrick"
(2000 4010 U320 WTFE Floor Plan, Single Slide)
Build #5567  |  MC #17522