What's In Your Engine Insulation Blankets?

Topic: What's In Your Engine Insulation Blankets? (Read 1162 times) previous topic - next topic

What's In Your Engine Insulation Blankets?

December 13, 2015, 01:30:57 pm

Has anyone ever had diesel fuel inside one of the (3) insulation blankets that surround the engine (the ones that are mounted behind the bed riser)?

I recently replaced the passenger side bedroom floor in it's entirety. At the edge of the plywood in the engine compartment I broke a piece of aluminum to make an end cap like the factory had, butyl caulked it where it meets the bed riser and painted it matte black.

Today I noticed there was some almost clear looking goo (looked like silicone at first) dripping in a few spots from under the passenger side insulation blanket down onto the aluminum, and in one place down onto the motor mount. When touched it feels
real sticky and somewhat dry, and mounded up a bit like a high viscosity drip.

I removed all the screws holding the blanket except the ones on the ends and started to clean the goo from the aluminum with mineral spirits, as well as reach under the blanket and clean it off of there. As I was squeezing the bottom hem while I wiped I
realized I was squeezing diesel fuel out that's trapped inside the hem itself. I am now going to remove the entire pad and make sure it's dry before putting it back on.

The screws are tight to the washers as they were only put back in last month. I don't know if diesel could enter through them or not.
The insulation exterior doesn't appear to be porous and I have no idea what the gooey substance is.

The best I can figure is that somehow when the new lift pump was being put on at Cummins last week the mechanic somehow got diesel fuel to enter the blanket. All the drips of goo are underneath the mounting screws/washers that hold the blanket in place.

What is the inside material of the blanket, that maybe the diesel fuel melted it? Has anyone else had a similar experience?

Re: What's In Your Engine Insulation Blankets?

Reply #1 – December 13, 2015, 01:40:08 pm

No to your question but if this "mechanic",actually made that mess I would hate to see what they would do on something
a bit more involved.

Re: What's In Your Engine Insulation Blankets?

Reply #2 – December 13, 2015, 03:03:38 pm

I entirely removed the blanket, laid the hem edge on a 2 X 6 and drove the yard tractor over it. It expelled the diesel to the point that it is no longer a problem.

With the blanket off I can see where the butyl tape is bubbled up adjacent to the CAPS injector pump which tells me it could be the pump that's leaking. The goo is probably adhesive for the butyl tape that was attacked by the fuel, and the blanket exterior may be porous.

I don't think Cummins caused the problem, but they haven't fixed it yet either, so tomorrow the rig is going back to them
to get the leak fixed sans the one insulation blanket. No sense in having it get fuel soaked again before the leak is surely fixed.

Re: What's In Your Engine Insulation Blankets?

Reply #3 – December 13, 2015, 03:07:31 pm

The insulation in our U300 was ready to burn without any diesel in it. The Detroit turbo only clears the cover by about 3 inches. Ours was hanging down and the plywood was charred above. I replaced a lot of the insulation and then covered it with Hardie Backerboard. A member lost his U300 last year because of an engine compartment fire. Generator exhaust pipe burned through the insulation and was causing a vibration in ours.

See how flammable it is in the photo below.

Pierce

Re: What's In Your Engine Insulation Blankets?

Reply #4 – December 13, 2015, 03:19:31 pm

It's about 20 miles to Cummins and I'm hoping to get there without having a fire. Without the blanket the sidewall of the bed is covered with black aluminum and I realize black is heat conductive, but I'll stop and check on it while enroute.

Hardy Backerboard sounds like great idea. What kind of insulation is under it?

Re: What's In Your Engine Insulation Blankets?

Reply #5 – December 13, 2015, 04:25:57 pm

I used the same OEM kind of insulation for some places, fiberglas in other spots like over the engine. Stainless screws and washers. I used a water based primer and then water based white semi-gloss on the backerboard. It's a cement product so will take a direct flame. Did the same in the fridge compartment.

Pierce.

Re: What's In Your Engine Insulation Blankets?

Reply #6 – December 13, 2015, 04:32:16 pm

Sleep well my friend.

Re: What's In Your Engine Insulation Blankets?

Reply #7 – December 13, 2015, 08:44:08 pm

My 1994 U300 looked just about like Pierce's when I got it back in 2007. I did two things to protect the charred area.

First I strepped out all of the old foam board that had basically turned to powder. Then I purchased some 2,000 degree ceramic fiber blanket insulation.

1) I applied that to all surfaces of the "Dog House" or bed box interior and covered that with aluminum sheeting, I do not remember what guage but it was similar to a heavy flashing material.

2) Then, I wrapped the exposed turbo charger and exhaust pipes from the manifold to the turbo, and from the turbo to the muffler.

After doing considerable research I noted that wrapping the turbo and exhaust system is a good way to increase engine efficiency and allow the heat to exit through the exhaust system and not build up in the engine compartment.

I researched for the proper material; Thermal Ceramics / Ceramic Fibre / K A O WOOL "RT" and bought it from; High Temp Inc. 14025 N Rivergate Blvd. , Portland, OR 97203 - Phone (503) 737 0345

Tried to attach two pictures not sure if it worked $:-\$

Re: What's In Your Engine Insulation Blankets?

Reply #8 – December 13, 2015, 09:26:05 pm

This thread is timely! I checked fluids before my last start up and was surprised to see the majority of the black blanket laying down on the job--right on the turbo! (I knew that this project was coming up soon.) But, once it gets tired and comes down, pay attention.

Ours had a "waterlogged" feel and look to it. Rain driving and old age. It was OEM I believe.

Re: What's In Your Engine Insulation Blankets?

Reply #9 – December 14, 2015, 01:24:44 am

Paul,

Don't bother worrying about drying the old black blanket out. They turbo will do that for you.

The two cycle Detroit has the large T6 turbo so takes the big blanket/cover turbo blanket detroit | eBay Cummins will take a smaller T4 size if I remember correctly. Buy the pipe wrap also.

Gerry V's wrap will also keep the summer heat on the bed down a bit when you stop for the night and don't want to roast above the hot engine and turbo.

Prices really vary on the covers from about $40 to almost $200.

Pierce

Re: What's In Your Engine Insulation Blankets?

Reply #10 – December 14, 2015, 07:48:37 am

I got tired of having to shampoo my head every time I stuck my head in the engine access door and brushed the insulation overhead. The old black foam insulation was breaking down so bad that it was clogging the radiator so I knew it was time to fix things.
I scraped all the old foam out after covering the engine with a tarp that I stapled to two 2 x 4s and slid in from the rear, above the radiator. I then glued and also used stainless screws and fender washers to hold the new insulation in place. The insulation I got from Texas, is 3/16" thick, aluminum foil faced (both sides), core is a lead foam. Fireproof and sound deadening. I put it on two thicknesses. The aluminum tape that I purchased with the insulation is terrific.
I liked the new look so much I installed some leftover LED lights in the compartment. I think I got rid of about 100#s of black foam insulation.

Re: What's In Your Engine Insulation Blankets?

Reply #11 – December 14, 2015, 10:53:16 am

Nighthawk,

Nice, clean installation. Great idea using the LEDs in the engine compartment. I have a couple of waterproof LED rolls left over and had been thinking about installing them. It's really dark in there and if you have to lean over the engine, it is nice to be able to not have one hand full of flashlight.

Pierce

Re: What's In Your Engine Insulation Blankets?

Reply #12 – December 14, 2015, 11:53:45 am

Quote from: nitehawk – December 14, 2015, 07:48:37 am

The insulation I got from Texas, is 3/16" thick, aluminum foil faced (both sides), core is a lead foam. Fireproof and sound deadening.

Specific brand and source, if you don't mind? This project is on my Spring to-do list.

Re: What's In Your Engine Insulation Blankets?

Reply #13 – December 14, 2015, 11:56:49 am

I will have to do some digging (asking the DW) as it was over a year ago.

Will do.

Re: What's In Your Engine Insulation Blankets?

Reply #14 – December 14, 2015, 12:43:54 pm

So far--no luck. DW thinks it was Foss Manufacturing but it seems they have gone bankrupt.
We will keep looking, tho.
Main things I do remember was the company was in Texas, sheets were 3/16 thick x 3' x 10' long for about $35 each. Lead foam core with aluminum facing on both sides. Soundproof and fireproof. The aluminum tape was/is works great. Comes in 3" wide x 10'long. Adheres super well.
I first heard about it on Foreforum or the Irv2 website.
I want to say it was from Willis or Irving, Texas but just can't be sure.

Re: What's In Your Engine Insulation Blankets?

Reply #15 – December 14, 2015, 12:54:35 pm

YEAH!!!!! FOUND IT!!! (well, I did get the Texas part right)
EZ COOL INSULATION
Harbour Supply
Mike & Kelly Harbour
150 Oak Ct
Springtown, TX 76082
817.523.0940

info@harboursupply.net

Re: What's In Your Engine Insulation Blankets?

Reply #16 – December 14, 2015, 02:03:45 pm

It seems like a common occurrence with pushers; some of the damage to the insulation could be the habit of being on idle too long. My old timer said, " run 15 minutes after start & shut-down after 15 minutes for cool-down". I notice ours was re- done a few years ago. Sure is quiet!

Re: What's In Your Engine Insulation Blankets?

Reply #17 – December 14, 2015, 02:16:52 pm

Neither Caterpillar nor Cummins recommend 15 minute warm up or 15 minute idle before shutdown.

Both recommend starting to drive after the coolant temperature gauge starts to rise IF you can operate at low speeds/throttle settings. So, if driving at low speeds out of a CG and then on city streets, you are good to go.

Yes, if parked on a freeway entrance, use high idle (cruise control to take it to 1000-1100 RPM) until coolant temperature reaches around 150 degrees F.

Same for shut down-- use common sense. If you drove a mile or so on city streets, into the CG and finally to your site, you are good to immediately shut it down.

Yes, if you just climbed a 4 mile 6% grade and pulled off at the scenic overlook, 4-5 minutes at idle is called for. Never seen recommendations for longer than 5 minutes.

An extra 20 minutes of idling every day you drive is really not good for a diesel engine.

Re: What's In Your Engine Insulation Blankets?

Reply #18 – December 14, 2015, 02:41:12 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – December 14, 2015, 02:16:52 pm

Both recommend starting to drive after the coolant temperature gauge starts to rise Same for shut down-- use common sense. An extra 20 minutes of idling every day you drive is really not good for a diesel engine.

True to me, and what I've always done. Tell that to 99% of coaches we've been next to.

Re: What's In Your Engine Insulation Blankets?

Reply #19 – December 15, 2015, 05:11:21 pm

Then tell that to 99.9% of the contractors at Lowes,OH I forgot they have "DA CHIP" that makes it ok to idle all day.

Re: What's In Your Engine Insulation Blankets?

Reply #20 – December 15, 2015, 06:16:42 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – December 14, 2015, 02:16:52 pm

An extra 20 minutes of idling every day you drive is really not good for a diesel engine.

It's inviting cavitation if nothing else.

Re: What's In Your Engine Insulation Blankets?

Reply #21 – December 15, 2015, 08:30:03 pm

A 600 RPM idle is not good for any diesel. Once our air is up, we take off but don't push it until the temp gauge moves up a bit. With a cold engine, the idle oil pressure will be pretty high. As the temp increases, the idle oil pressure drops. Diesels depend on good pressure to shoot oil up into the hollow piston crowns providing cooling. With a higher mileage diesel or high coolant temps, the idle oil pressure will be lower and may not provide the straight stream necessary to fill the hollow crowns.

The water pump does not operate as efficiently at idle RPM so cooling a warm engine takes longer. The oil temperature takes about twice as long as the coolant to come down so just because the temp gauge is down to 180 or so, the oil will be much hotter. This is what ruins turbo chargers as the oil refines itself into coke.

In the fire service, once the engine had oil pressure in less than two seconds, it was pedal to the metal. No block heater either. Once we pulled it out on the ramp or were at the scene of an emergency, we would always switch to fast idle (1000 RPM). Diesels can run forever at this RPM. The water pump is working well, the engine has good oil pressure and everything is happy.

So, at the top of a grade for a photo shoot or lunch, fast idle with a switch or your foot for several minutes. No need to warm it up in the morning once you have oil and air pressure. Just don't abuse it until it's warm.

Pierce

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