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Topic: converter/ charger / invertor or invertor charger (Read 1152 times) previous topic - next topic

converter/ charger / invertor or invertor charger

I  have a lot if time to think while out trucking and this thought popped in my head.
My coach has a charger convertor,and a separate invertor. In another thread a poster asked about a replacement charger convertor.
A lot of you replied to replace it with s invertor charger. My question is pretty much all my lights are 12volt.Everything else is gas,oven, stove, heaters etc. If I want to use the microwave I press a button and the invertor turns on.
I don't see I use all that much A/C current in my coach usage.If my batteries go low I either have to plug in or fire the generator. Now you guys with the invertor chargers pretty much have to do the same thing as far as charging back up the battery bank. But in order to charge up you either plug in or start generator.But when you plug in now you arn't using the invertor your using shore power or  gen power. So my question is Why would a $2000.00 invertor/ charger replacement benefit me? Do your newer coaches hsve that much A/C current driven with appliances? I can't see a benefit switching it around.Please explain how and why it's a better setup.
91 GV U300 Unihome 40' Build 3811
6V92TA Detroit

Re: converter/ charger / invertor or invertor charger

Reply #1 –
Stump, those are good questions.  15 years ago when they built our coach they put in tube type TVs, ice makers, Bose sound systems and lots of outlets.  To power it all they put in big inverter/charger.  At that time they were not so efficient.  Ours sucks about 10 amps just to be on.  But if you want to do the microwave or make toast or coffee in a fancy coffee maker you need the capacity.  Today's inverter are much more efficient and the LED lights and TVs use much less power.  I have a smaller 1000 watt inverter (less than 1 amp at idle) to run the residential refrigerator and a few outlets.  These can run chargers and power supplies for laptops etc.  All of the TV stuff today, the TV, the DVD player, the sat dish, the sat receiver and the old Bose can be run on a 400 watt inverter that idles at 0.3 amps.  So unplugged, generator off, the smaller inverters do most of the daily chores with a much smaller overhead.  All LED lighting means even less load. 

But if we want to make something in the microwave or coffee or run the vacuum, the old big boy has to come into service.

If we are plugged in or on the gen (or wouldn't it be nice to have a bunch of solar) then all of this stuff switches over from the inverter to 120v.

There is a lot of differences between coaches and even more between the power needs of owners.  It is a good thing to undersatnd how all of the options can work for you and then go for the best comination of components that does the job for you.

Hope this helps.

Roger
Roger Engdahl and Susan Green
2001 U320 3610 #5879 (Home2) - 2014 Jeep Cherokee or 2018 F150
Hastings, MN

Re: converter/ charger / invertor or invertor charger

Reply #2 –
Some of us have solar panels to charge the batteries. Panels are kinda a necessity for us as we spend a lot of time dry camping. If you still have the original equipment it may not be a bad idea to switch over to a smart charger for your batteries. As to an inverter well that depends on how often you are not hooked up to a campground. We use our inverter a lot, I hate to fire up the generator to make toast or coffee.

Roland
1993 U280 4341
2010 Jeep Liberty
The Pied Pipers

Re: converter/ charger / invertor or invertor charger

Reply #3 –
The bigger charger inverters also charge the batteries faster which means less generator time. The reason I have a Xantrex 3000 is my DW wants coffee and an English muffin during quiet hours sometimes and when I do start the generator it brings the batteries up faster.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: converter/ charger / invertor or invertor charger

Reply #4 –
Quote from: craneman –
The bigger charger inverters also charge the batteries faster which means less generator time. The reason I have a Xantex 3000 is my DW wants coffee and an English muffin during quiet hours sometimes and when I do start the generator it brings the batteries up faster.


I noticed the 3000 has a 150 amp charge rate,  50 amps into a 225 amp hour 8g8d is a little high but more correct if you have flooded cell or agm batteries with 250 amp hour caoacity.

A lot of info around about a twenty percent of amp hour charge rate.

Either way it's probably no difference. 

Foretravel used three 8d8g's at 675 amp hours new and a 160 amp alternator and a 130 amp inverter/charger..

Everything is related
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: converter/ charger / invertor or invertor charger

Reply #5 –
Quote from: stump –
So my question is Why would a $2000.00 invertor/ charger replacement benefit me?
If you are getting along fine with the equipment in your coach, then it wouldn't benefit you.  Why spend money to buy new stuff you don't need?

Our coach, when we bought it, had the original modified sine inverter, and a separate charger/converter.  The battery charger was old tech, and "dumb", and it had fried both of the flooded type 8D batteries in the coach.  I wanted to get two new AGM batteries, so I first changed out the charger/converter to a newer "smart" model that would handle the new batteries correctly.

That worked fine for 2 years, then we installed a residential fridge.  The old modified sine inverter was capable of running the new fridge, but it wasn't happy about it...started cutting out and over-heating.  So we began looking into getting a new pure sine inverter.

Then we decided to put solar on the roof.  When we discussed our needs and wants with the solar installer, they suggested we consider replacing our (old) inverter and (newer) charger/converter with one single device.  They said a good quality combo inverter/charger would integrate better with the PV controllers, and make our whole operation a lot simpler.

So we ended up with a Magnum MS2812, which seems to be a pretty popular choice among the Forum members.  I would say it works perfectly for us.  There is nothing to turn on and turn off - the inverter and charger stay on all the time.  When we are plugged in, the inverter passes the 110v AC power straight through, and charges the house batteries.  When I unplug, the charger goes off and the inverter comes on.  It makes this switch so quickly that nothing in the coach even notices the change in power source.

We no longer have either of the 2 original ATS boxes in the coach.  The one for the inverter was removed when we installed the Magnum, since it does the switching internally.  I replaced the other ATS (the one that switches between shore power and generator) with a Blue Seas manual switch, because the humming noise was driving us crazy.  Now, if we're on inverter, and I want to use the generator, I just fire it up.  Once it has stabilized, I turn the manual switch to "GEN", and the inverter shuts off and the generator picks up the load.  Again, it happens instantaneously, and nothing in the coach registers the change in power source.

The solar charge controllers and the battery charger in the inverter work perfectly together.  If one of them is not operating or putting out sufficient amps, the other one takes up the slack.  The batteries don't care where the charging amps are coming from.  There is no switching or changing settings - it all blends together seamlessly and transparently.

The point of all this verbiage is this:  we didn't NEED to upgrade from the original factory equipment in our coach until we started changing other stuff.  Each change required analyzing and rethinking our electrical system - one thing leads to another.  We presently have a setup that suits our needs perfectly...or do we?  It might be nice to have another AGM8D to extend our dry camping capability........HMmmm
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: converter/ charger / invertor or invertor charger

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
...It might be nice to have another AGM8D to extend our dry camping capability........HMmmm
or two ::)
Don
The selected media item is not currently available.
Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: converter/ charger / invertor or invertor charger

Reply #7 –
Thanks that all makes sense. I replaced my charger convertor lsdt year with a Progressive Dynamics 9280 wilth charge wizard it works fine.
91 GV U300 Unihome 40' Build 3811
6V92TA Detroit

Re: converter/ charger / invertor or invertor charger

Reply #8 –
I just replaced the original inverter (19+ years old) with a Xantrex 3000 'cause I'm hoping to get a residential fridge & solar panels sooner or later.....so this can handle all that, as I discussed with Paul Y. before making the decision....also replaced the old house batteries with 2 new Lifeline 8D L-post AGM batteries. This "first coach being my last coach" means I can do all that now & have all the power I need for anymore upgrades. So hmmm, now wondering what's left to do, after the above 2 projects?  >:D 

Re: converter/ charger / invertor or invertor charger

Reply #9 –
So I read Chuck and Jeannie's post about the inverter coming on instantly. I had another coach that worked like that years ago but my '96 takes several minutes to come on which sometimes poses a problem. Is it my inverter or a setting or what. This is the original inverter. Maybe it's just old.
Larry
1996 U295 36'
Build # 4805
Actually we sold it but just like to lurk

Re: converter/ charger / invertor or invertor charger

Reply #10 –
Larry,

It would be helpful if you could identify your specific inverter model.  Then other members with the same unit could comment on the "delay" that you are seeing.  It might only require a simple setting change to eliminate the aggravation.  Or, the time delay might be intentional, and built into either the inverter or the ATS.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: converter/ charger / invertor or invertor charger

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Caflashbob –

I noticed the 3000 has a 150 amp charge rate,  50 amps into a 225 amp hour 8g8d is a little high but more correct if you have flooded cell or agm batteries with 250 amp hour capacity

My coach has 3 8d AGM's and the Xantrex lets you set charging for type and capacity of the battery bank.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: converter/ charger / invertor or invertor charger

Reply #12 –
Quote from: craneman –
Quote from: Caflashbob –

I noticed the 3000 has a 150 amp charge rate,  50 amps into a 225 amp hour 8g8d is a little high but more correct if you have flooded cell or agm batteries with 250 amp hour capacity

My coach has 3 8d AGM's and the Xantrex lets you set charging for type and capacity of the battery bank.


Many inverter/chargers have a "power share" or "power save" feature which lets you limit the amps of 120 VAC that can be used for battery charging.

Most also have "battery size in amp-hrs" as one of the programmable features.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: converter/ charger / invertor or invertor charger

Reply #13 –
I have a Freedom 25 inverter/charger that, as I said, is original to the coach, a '96 U295.
Larry
1996 U295 36'
Build # 4805
Actually we sold it but just like to lurk

Re: converter/ charger / invertor or invertor charger

Reply #14 –
Quote from: lgshoup –
I have a Freedom 25 inverter/charger that, as I said, is original to the coach, a '96 U295.
We have the original "stuff" and working well.

Hans & Marjet
1995 U300 "Ben" (#4719)
3176B Cat,4060HD,Jake
SKP#139131
Motorcade#17579
2006 Honda Element (towed)

Re: converter/ charger / invertor or invertor charger

Reply #15 –
Like Wolfe said in an earlier thread it is what you need to use the coach comfortably. The 1981 Foretravel  I have came from the factory all electric including residential refrigerator and 220 volt electric stove. It has a 12 kw Yanmar generator which I believe was intended for a sail boat and an all electric water heater, that I know is used on sailboats as I had to replace it once.
 The down side was that the coach was intended to be on full hook ups or the generator running for the refrigerator. I used it having to run the generator all day and keep the refrigerator closed at night. I solved the issue by putting in a Trace 4024 inverter 4000 watts continuous and 11, 000 watts surge. installed 4 golf cart batteries in series as the inverter used 24 volts dc. The motorhome sits as my earthquake stand by here in Los Angeles and can power my house if necessary.
  This was about my only option to dry camp with what was not set up for dry camping like the newer Foretravels.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: converter/ charger / invertor or invertor charger

Reply #16 –
Quote from: craneman –
The 1981 Foretravel  I have came from the factory all electric...
Interesting!  What did the factory install for space heating, in place of the propane heaters used in later model years?
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"
 

Re: converter/ charger / invertor or invertor charger

Reply #17 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
Interesting!  What did the factory install for space heating, in place of the propane heaters used in later model years?
2 Hunter diesel heaters. Used a heat exchanger system. I believe they were used in truck sleepers at the time. The original owner did not want propane. It has a separate 100 gal diesel tank for generator and heaters. 2  100 gal tanks for coach.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean