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No Start No Power

So I was working on my Coach on Saturday. The start battery was dead as were the house batteries. Was trying to diagnose why the solar system had not kept house batteries charged. At first it looked like the controller was not working but after some reading and more work it seemed like if the batteries were way down the controller would not work or act correctly.
I found that my sales man switch had been left on and that had killed the house batteries.
I jumped the batteries and got the gen to run and had it running while I further diagnosed the battery situation. I found some loose battery posts and finally decided I needed to replace them all as they would not tighten down on the post.
I tried to start the coach and it tried to start but did not have quite enough juice so I waited another hour and tried again. when I tried this time with the boost switch on it killed the generator and then nothing would work.
Start switch on generator dead . Start switch for gen dead at the dash . Coach start switch dead.
Left and said enough of a mess for the day.
Went back last night and put on all new post clamps and tied all batteries together . Tried to start coach or gen and no response anywhere.
I put a charger on it for the house batteries 10 amp and left it there at about 6 . My friend was going to check battery condition at 10 pm and 6 am and turn off the charger at 6 am..
Where do I start looking for my dead short ?
I am not the brightest bulb when it come to electrical but I can read a meter and do other basic stuff. I have had one catastrophe with a battery that blew up in my face so I take all precautions necessary and am very careful around batteries.

I need some direction about where to start my diagnosis.
Sorry for the long read.
John
coach is 1991 Grandvilla 3208 cat
John Madsen

Re: No Start No Power

Reply #1 –
Quote from: madsen –
I need some direction about where to start my diagnosis. Sorry for the long read.
How long has the coach been sitting? When were the batteries last replaced? In these coaches, there is ALWAYS a battery drain somewhere. Can you get to shore power? Some batteries will never recover once discharged, though. It's amazing how long it takes to charge both banks, even on shore power.
1993 U-240 "La Villa Grande"..CAT 3116 w/ Pacbrake PRXB...Allison 3060 6-speed..
Previous: 1983 Airstream 310 turbo diesel, 1979 Airstream 280 turbo diesel
                                      Build # 4297
                                      PNW natives
                      Home base:  'Cactus Hug' (Ajo, Arizona)
                        DW Judy & Chet the wonder dog
                        Full-Timers 'Sailing the asphalt sea'

Re: No Start No Power

Reply #2 –
Mike to answer your questions I had run the coach and generator 2 weeks prior to last weekend. The start battery has been toast since I got it last fall. Have been using house batteries to start the coach. House batteries are 3 years old. I cannot access Shore power at all. Previously the coach would run on its own with out the boost switch on once started and run for a minute or 2 at most.
John
John Madsen

Re: No Start No Power

Reply #3 –
Quote from: madsen –
  Previously the coach would run on its own with out the boost switch on once started and run for a minute or 2 at most.
Then the engine quit?
1993 U-240 "La Villa Grande"..CAT 3116 w/ Pacbrake PRXB...Allison 3060 6-speed..
Previous: 1983 Airstream 310 turbo diesel, 1979 Airstream 280 turbo diesel
                                      Build # 4297
                                      PNW natives
                      Home base:  'Cactus Hug' (Ajo, Arizona)
                        DW Judy & Chet the wonder dog
                        Full-Timers 'Sailing the asphalt sea'

Re: No Start No Power

Reply #4 –

No
The generator quit when I tried to start the motor. And would not respond at all after it quit.
JOHN
John Madsen

Re: No Start No Power

Reply #5 –
You know the starting battery(s) are toast, replace them.  Put your coach specs, etc. on your sig, there are some smart cookies here, that if knowing the coach, could give some more help.  ^.^d
1993 U-240 "La Villa Grande"..CAT 3116 w/ Pacbrake PRXB...Allison 3060 6-speed..
Previous: 1983 Airstream 310 turbo diesel, 1979 Airstream 280 turbo diesel
                                      Build # 4297
                                      PNW natives
                      Home base:  'Cactus Hug' (Ajo, Arizona)
                        DW Judy & Chet the wonder dog
                        Full-Timers 'Sailing the asphalt sea'

Re: No Start No Power

Reply #6 –
Mike
Do not know what happened to my info on my signature. I have put that in previously. I will replace the start battery.
Still trying to figure out where to look for the reason that when I tried to start the coach the generator quit and i lost all power everywhere. I had power thru all 3 batteries and I know that because I checked each one for continuity!
Coach is a 1991 Grande Villa  36 feet long
U 280
3108 Cat motor
Allison 4 speed
Onan 7.5 kw propane fueled genset
Mileage on coach is less than 40 K
The only obvious upgrade to electrical is the addition of the solar power system and it has previously kept the batteries charged if I did not leave the salesman switch turned in the on position.
JOHN
Ps Mike Thanks for reading and posting !!!
John Madsen

Re: No Start No Power

Reply #7 –
Quote from: madsen –
  Thanks for reading and posting !!!
I would wonder, (after the batteries are renewed) if the transfer switch has gone south.  There should be no reason for the boost switch to be used, except in cold weather.
1993 U-240 "La Villa Grande"..CAT 3116 w/ Pacbrake PRXB...Allison 3060 6-speed..
Previous: 1983 Airstream 310 turbo diesel, 1979 Airstream 280 turbo diesel
                                      Build # 4297
                                      PNW natives
                      Home base:  'Cactus Hug' (Ajo, Arizona)
                        DW Judy & Chet the wonder dog
                        Full-Timers 'Sailing the asphalt sea'

Re: No Start No Power

Reply #8 –
Quote from: madsen –
...when I tried this time with the boost switch on it killed the generator and then nothing would work.
Check the circuit breakers on the generator start panel?
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: No Start No Power

Reply #9 –
I believe the first thing you should do is get the batteries charged.  If they are bad replace them.  Once the batteries are charged you should be able to figure out what is going on.
Harold Charlson
1992 U280 4133
Round Top, TX

Re: No Start No Power

Reply #10 –
The toasted engine batteries may have the short thus when the boost switch was used the engine batteries would consume all of the available current. This may have activated a kill circuit to the generator. A 6 AMP charge over night for house batteries that may be over 400 amps is a very light charge no where near 80 percent charged. Get the toasted batteries out and use the house batteries to start the generator after they are charged up.
2000  42 U320 DGFE full body paint/modified front lower cap, Build# 5742
2004 C-RV Toad
Tom and Mary, Trouble & Mr. Pants

Re: No Start No Power

Reply #11 –
What you are describing about killing the generator and no power after, sounds like a broken connection. Check for voltage at the generator. Sometimes what looks like a good connection isn't. The start batteries are not what starts the generator
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: No Start No Power

Reply #12 –
When we were dry camping, even with the gen set running a couple of hours a day, we had battery issues. Replaced both banks, and the tech said the gen set did as good as it could, given the age of the batteries. He suggested, with older batteries, to take the coach out for a couple of hundred miles and let that bad boy alternator do it's job.  ^.^d
1993 U-240 "La Villa Grande"..CAT 3116 w/ Pacbrake PRXB...Allison 3060 6-speed..
Previous: 1983 Airstream 310 turbo diesel, 1979 Airstream 280 turbo diesel
                                      Build # 4297
                                      PNW natives
                      Home base:  'Cactus Hug' (Ajo, Arizona)
                        DW Judy & Chet the wonder dog
                        Full-Timers 'Sailing the asphalt sea'

Re: No Start No Power

Reply #13 –
Quote from: craneman –
  The start batteries are not what starts the generator

Maybe FT did it different, but most good advice I got was, if battery issues were around, start the engine to get the batteries up, and at idle, start the gen-set.
1993 U-240 "La Villa Grande"..CAT 3116 w/ Pacbrake PRXB...Allison 3060 6-speed..
Previous: 1983 Airstream 310 turbo diesel, 1979 Airstream 280 turbo diesel
                                      Build # 4297
                                      PNW natives
                      Home base:  'Cactus Hug' (Ajo, Arizona)
                        DW Judy & Chet the wonder dog
                        Full-Timers 'Sailing the asphalt sea'
 

Re: No Start No Power

Reply #14 –
You should have an 8d start battery and 2 8d house batteries, if the house batteries are 3 years old and the engine battery is no good, would suggest replacing all batteries, The house batteries did not have enough capacity in them when you hit the start for the cat engine to start it and that is why it killed the generator as it took all the current, sounds like you also have a bad connection, possibly ground circu9it besides bad batteries.
previous 1984 35 ft ORED 250 HP 3208 Cat       
previous 1998 40 ft U295 CAI 325 hp Cummins
previous 2003 40 Ft u320 build #6140 450 Cummins M11.                                                         
1999 Mazda Miata
Ron, Nancy, Tipper the cat, Max The dog
1997 U 270 36 ft build number 5174 8.3 Cummins