Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

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Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

April 25, 2016, 07:52:33 pm

I went to move my 1997 U-320 M11 a few days ago to make room under the covered RV shed for a big gathering but was surprised that nothing happens, not even a click, when I turn the key. Everything was just fine when I parked it about 3 weeks ago.

All the house systems (that I've tried) seem to work, and the house batteries are at full charge.

The boost switch does not help. I also noticed that neither the Allison shift pad not the instrument panel is illuminated. Now, I did not have time to do any looking at that time for my main goal was to prepare for the previously-mentioned motorcycle gang gathering. Now that that is over I'm hoping somebody can point me toward a quick fix, like a fuse or something. I'm not very bright especially where electrical circuits are concerned but I am willing to learn.

Any quick tips?

Glen Kenney

Re: Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

Reply #1 – April 25, 2016, 07:57:36 pm

First thing to check is the chassis batteries. look for bad connections. Use a volt meter and see if they have voltage. I don't know the circuit on the boost button as to needing chassis power to work.

Re: Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

Reply #2 – April 25, 2016, 08:31:44 pm

Do the headlights turn on? This will tell us if you have chassis voltage at the dash.

The boost switch is connected to both chassis and house batteries through 2 diodes, so if either chassis or house batteries are dead, the boost switch will power the boost relay either way.

Re: Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

Reply #3 – April 25, 2016, 08:41:35 pm

If chassis battery and connections are OK, first suspect is the IGNITION SOLENOID. The key/ignition closes this solenoid (up front in the coach) to power all those things that only work with ignition on. So Allison shift pad, dash HVAC fan......

Re: Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

Reply #4 – April 25, 2016, 11:30:59 pm

Transmission selector in proper location for starting?
On our old coach if the shift lever is not in neutral position nothing happens.

Re: Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

Reply #5 – April 26, 2016, 12:40:50 am

You mentioned that your boost switch did not work. I suspect:

Low chassis battery;

and bad boost solenoid.

At least that was the problem I had.

Trent

Re: Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

Reply #6 – April 26, 2016, 01:57:09 am

Ignition solenoid.. You can try turning the key on and of a bunch of times. I've done it 15 times and 16 was the charm. Replaced the solenoid cured that. I carry a spare now. (there cheap).

Re: Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

Reply #7 – April 26, 2016, 05:30:13 am

agree..... ignition solenoid OR ignition switch......... a quick check with a VOM would determine

Re: Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

Reply #8 – April 26, 2016, 09:25:53 am

OK, to troubleshoot the ignition solenoid:

There will be two large lugs and either one or two small lugs.

One large lug is always hot-- and should read chassis battery voltage.
The other large lug should read 0 VAC with ignition off and full chassis battery voltage (same as other large lug) with the key on.

If one small lug, it is the "signal terminal" and will have 12 VDC to it with the ignition is on (power from ignition switch).
If there is a second small lug, it is to ground. Some do not have this second small terminal, as they are grounded through the metal body of the solenoid.

As they start to fail, often a light, sharp rap with the handle of a screwdriver will temporarily "wake them up".

IN AN EMERGENCY, TO GET IT GOING:
Mark all the wires on the "not hot" the large lugs (tape, bread ties, etc). Remove them from that large lug and ADD them to the other large lug. Electrically, you have just done the same thing as when the solenoid is working and key off. To turn key off, remove the added wires and return them to their original position. Be careful that you do not tough any metal surfaces with those large wires!

Here is a MUCH more reliable (but more expensive) alternative: L Solenoid - 12/24V DC 250A - Blue Sea Systems

Rated for 1 MILLION cycles and up to 450 amps CONTINUOUS (rating depends on wire gauge to it).

Re: Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

Reply #9 – April 26, 2016, 10:20:26 am

I LOVE this forum! This forum, and help of the people who comprise it, are one of the main reasons I own a Foretravel.

I am tied up today and probably tomorrow with a close family member's medical issues, but just as soon as I can I will be following the helpful tips to troubleshoot and resolve this issue.

Thanks again,
Glen Kenney

Re: Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

Reply #10 – April 26, 2016, 12:04:17 pm

Glen,

We experienced the same situation last summer in WI and Brett came to the rescue. We followed his IN EMERGENCY instructions to get down the road (out of the way!) and overnighted the Blue Sea part. Very good help, in a hurry.

I'm with you: I love this forum! Best-Paul

Re: Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

Reply #11 – April 26, 2016, 01:44:34 pm

Make sure the salesman switch did not get turned off.

Re: Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

Reply #12 – April 26, 2016, 04:34:31 pm

I found the problem. It is the root cause of most of my problems because it is the issue of the Loose Nut Behind the Wheel.

My chassis batteries are dead. That normally would have been the first place I would have checked, but because I keep the coach plugged into 50-amp service I "thought" that the inverter/charger also kept the chassis batteries charged. So, my first place to look was the ignition solenoids I've been reading about. I even got on a conference call with Michael Harbordt, Don Cox, and Dave Cobb! They told me the voltage should be the first thing to check, but agreed that the voltage should not be so low that quickly. I got my meter and started checking voltages and saw 3.3 volts at the terminals. That's when a light finally came on in my head and I checked the batteries, and saw that the 3.3 volts was real.

I really thought the chassis batteries stayed charged by the inverter/charger. Michael says that happens only if the boost switch is on. So, right now I have the boost switch turned on so I'm charging the chassis batteries and will check it first thing in the morning. I'll then have to check current draw to see why they fully discharged in a 3 week period, but that's a separate issue.

Again, the people on this forum are the most helpful resource around.

(By the way, I just edited this to make it clearer. I originally called the chassis batteries "coach" batteries. I just now changed "Coach" to "Chassis" to make it clearer which is which.)
Glen

Re: Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

Reply #13 – April 26, 2016, 04:41:40 pm

Glen,

House battery bank IS charged by the inverter/charger.

OE on most Foretravels is for the chassis batteries to NOT BE CHARGED FROM THE INVERTER/CHARGER. BTW, many SOB's are wired the same way.

IMO, 100% of owners need to remedy this.

3 good ways (pick one):
1. A separate small smart charger dedicated to the chassis battery.
2. A "thief" type device like the Xantrex Echo Charger that takes power from the house battery when voltage is high enough (i.e. the house battery being charged) and uses that to charge the chassis battery. These are basically smart combiners.
3. Solar. The most expensive option, but an excellent choice if the coach is stored with no shore power available.

Re: Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

Reply #14 – April 26, 2016, 05:15:11 pm

Erie Glen: Using a part number given to me by Keith at MOT I found a Marinco VSR--Voltage Sensitive Regulator --for around $100 that is a thief device as mentioned by Brett. Easy to hook up and is a way to accomplish what is done by the boost but probably better when needing to be unattended for a period of time. I will know better after I have some experience.

David Spoor
1999 U 295

Re: Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

Reply #15 – April 26, 2016, 06:36:36 pm

Glenn, always good to talk to you.

While I said the boost can be used, I do not leave it on to provide that function except as you will do now to see if the engine batteries will take a charge and hold it or they are dead.......rather than using the boost all the time, I had the Echo added to the coach to keep the engine batteries up, then MOT later recommended I change to the VSR and I did.

Maybe someone will chime in on this.....I have been told that the boost will, and will not, damage the engine batteries if left on for days as that method to charge the engine batteries does not detect when the batteries are fully charged and then shutoff as will the VSR. Not to confuse this thread or the track you are on, but I do not want to give the impression that just leave the boost on all the time.....unless some other tells you it ok.

If after you do this boost trial for ten hours, then turn off the boost and try to crank, you will know more of the battery condition. If not a dead battery and needing to be replaced...... Separately, Risch noted that if it not bad batteries, you likely have a different problem, a contact to ground draining your batteries, for they should be able to sit for more than a month without dropping down to 3 volts.

Re: Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

Reply #16 – April 26, 2016, 06:51:42 pm

Batteries may be toast

Re: Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

Reply #17 – April 26, 2016, 08:31:42 pm

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – April 26, 2016, 06:51:42 pm

Batteries may be toast

Boost if not a sea camp is a three amp continious draw.

Seacamp is magnetically connected. No draw.

I have a thief system and 270 watts of solar.

Fires right up,

A small smart charger on the chassis batteries helps.

Each discharge to zero reduces the batteries cycle life by 50% if flooded cell or non deep cycle.

Re: Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

Reply #18 – July 09, 2016, 11:56:46 pm

I am having this problem and I had it happen twice today and now that I got the coach home she wont start, can someone tell me where I can find the ignition solenoid? I have a 97 U320 40 ft. I heard its up front but where? Any help would be great. Im getting to understand each system on this as things happen. Glad I am technical

Re: Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

Reply #19 – July 10, 2016, 07:25:33 am

Ron,

On our '97 just as you go in the front door on your right side there is a removable kick panel. Reach and grab the bottom and give it a tug. Once this is loose you will have to take off an A/C duct then you will have access to your 12v breaker panel. At the bottom near the center of the panel is your ignition solenoid . It is the 1st thing to check as it has quite a load that it carries. Several have changed this out to a Blue Sea brand. If you look back to post #8 Brett has a link to Blue Sea. Here is a couple of pics. as to what you are looking for.

Pamela & Mike

Re: Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

Reply #20 – July 10, 2016, 08:17:18 am

Love this Forum. Gurus like Mike n Brett make owning these beasts feasible for working stiffs like us!

Re: Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

Reply #21 – July 10, 2016, 08:18:07 am

Love the pics!

Re: Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

Reply #22 – July 10, 2016, 09:01:28 am

Also as a reminder, depending on what the problem is, sometimes the start button at the engine will work when the ignition key won't.

Re: Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

Reply #23 – July 10, 2016, 10:58:16 am

Glen,
We're all batteries dead? If the house batteries were up and engine batteries were dead then the boost sw should have started your engine.
Not sure what is going on here.

Re: Nothing happens when I turn the ignition switch

Reply #24 – July 10, 2016, 11:17:37 pm

Pamela & Mike
thanks for that awesome set of pics. I will be checking this solenoid this week. It makes sense as when I turn the key the gauges don't do their test and odometer doesn't move. These are easy to work on once you know where everything is. That's the big tric. This is also a great way to install an antitheft device as the key is easy to defeat. Thanks again.
Ron

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