Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

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Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

July 27, 2016, 05:18:51 pm

I was working on the inside of the coach down in the storage lot (no hook-ups) and using the inverter just run a 110V AC LED work light I have... (about 20 watts). I noticed the light went out and got up to look at the Magnum ARC remote and saw that it was blank. Looked at my solar controller remote and saw that the battery bank (four 245AH 8D AGM's = 980AH!) was down to 12.2VDC. This got my attention as about 20 minutes prior when I turned the inverter on, the house bank was over 13VDC and the Magnum remote (ARC-50) was showing the battery bank to be at 100%. My hackles raising, I hurriedly stepped outside and immediately was hit by the unmistakable acrid smell of an electrical conflagration (forgive the hyperbole, but my imagination was on fire at the time...). I ran around to the compartment and opened the door and the smoke rolled out. I turned the 250A DC breaker off on the Magnum Mini-Panel and feared for my battery bank, but it seemed to be unaffected, other than the sag in voltage as it attempted to use its power to turn the inside of the Magnum inverter into slag. Time will tell if they were adversely affected, but the voltage bounced back quickly once the battery bank was disconnected

So I think that the niggling problems I have experienced with this inverter since shortly after installation (noisy charger, sometimes (but not always) tripping the GFCI when turned on, weirdness when charging on generator power...) finally came to fruition. It would have been a hell of a lot more convenient if the thing had just been DOA. As it is, I guess that I will be testing Magnum's vaunted 3 year warranty. I feel certain that the problem was not the result of my installation process. It has been working showing no errors from the self diagnostics, for over a year and half. Also, the resulting issue is isolated to melted internal components within the inverter. The inverter was designed to shut itself down in the event of a number of problems, but those protection schemes were not effective in my case. I am surprised that the 250AMP DC breaker didn't trip since it obviously has a direct short inside the inverter. but I like to think that had I not been on top of it, the breaker would have tripped or the short burned itself open before turning our precious coach into a cinder. Magnum requires a hood in the particular installation orientation I used, and I am sure glad that I used it as the bottom of the hood was subjected to a great deal of heat and the fiberglass ceiling of the basement is only an inch or so above the hood. To top it off, the A/C cables enter the coach right above the hood, so those big cables were protected by it. It could have been far worse!

Alan of Bay Marine Supply is interceding with Magnum on my behalf on this issue and it seems that Magnum will stand behind their warranty. Had I been on my own, I would likely have had to take it to a service center for evaluation. If the service center found it to be defective and unrepairable as opposed to abused, then I would have had to pony up a credit card charge for the full retail price for them to ship me a new one and then wait for a refund of the charge when they got the old unit back. Alan stepped up to the plate and had them put it on his store account, and they shipped a remanufactured unit which arrived in his shop in a few days. ... I can't say enough about the support provided by Alan in this, and in other interactions with manufacturers. He is always willing to supply information, and if he doesn't know the answer, he is willing to dig for it. Being a full timer himself (sailboat), he has a curiosity that makes it easy to brainstorm solutions, and indeed, seems to enjoy doing so.

Since the new remanufactured unit is the same model as the useless boat anchor it replaced, installation was a cinch. The hardest part was cleaning the soot off of the inverter hood (nasty job!). The cable terminations and cable management parts of the original Magnum installation was a time consuming process as it involved moving the original Heart Freedom 20 inverter (and aux compressor) from the storage bay ceiling and basically swapping places with the circuit breaker panel that was mounted where the Magnum inverter, Magnum Mini-panel (contains bus bars, cable terminations, battery monitor, A/C bypass breakers, 250 Amp DC breaker, etc.), and the MidniteSolar Classic 150 solar charge controller are now ensconced. The move was a lot of work, but it saved a great deal of space over the old scalp collector setup it replaced. I also installed the upgraded aux compressor on the same wall towards the curb side of the compartment. This arrangement clears the joey bed as long as there isn't stuff spilling over that side of it. The breaker panel hanging from the ceiling doesn't protrude any farther than the channel in which cabling, hoses, and wire bundles are run. As long as the stuff in the joey bed clears that, it clears everything. Well, the ABS hangs just a bit lower than that, but that may change...

Okay, the good news! The new (remanufactured) unit is very quiet while charging at whatever rate, when inverting it doesn't trip the bathroom GFCI (at least so far.... fingers crossed, knock on wood, avoid walking under ladders, etc.). Also when running of the generator, the defunct Magnum had to be set up to charge at no more than 30% or so to avoid tripping the bathroom GFCI and or just shutting down until a hard reset (weird I know, but I already had replaced the old GFCI and that didn't fix it). Now, with the remanufactured unit, I can charge at the 125AMP max rate from the generator and no issue so far. Nothing has changed except the Inverter. I won't be completely content until some time has passed without anomalous behavior and we have used the new inverter/charger enough that I won't be afraid of a meltdown and possible fire caused by electrical malfunction. Apparently, the issue I experienced with our first Magnum unit is the exception since the web is replete with satisfied customers reporting reliable performance. I wanted the best for our coach, and now, hopefully I have it. Time will tell, but right now, I couldn't be happier. To reiterate the issues I had with the first Magnum inverter, the first thing I noticed when testing it after installation was that the charger was EXTREMELY noisy when charging at any rate whatsoever. It seemed to function as intended, but I was not happy! Unfortunately, I had purchased the unit about 6 months before I got around to installing it and so I couldn't return it without pulling it and talking it to a service center. I didn't discover the GFCI weirdness until we left on trip and stayed overnight in a casino parking lot where I was using the generator. I wasn't sure at the time, though I suspected, that there was a functional problem with the inverter. It has been on my list to yank it and send it off, but life kept getting in the way. The meltdown brought it to a head, and I am now glad that it did it before the three year warranty was up. A quiet, non-smelly death, would have been preferable as I could have done without the adrenaline rush I got when I smelled the unmistakable electrical smoke smell, but like I said, I am happy now. As it is, I can cross the inverter off of my too long to-do list!

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #1 – July 27, 2016, 06:02:34 pm

REALLY SCARY story! Glad it had a (mostly) happy ending. Electrical fires are nasty no matter where they occur, but certainly better to happen in the storage lot than when rolling down the highway. Good luck you were there to take prompt action!

I'm glad you got such positive support from your vendor and the manufacturer. Goes a long way toward soothing frayed nerves!

Perhaps a smoke alarm in the storage bay with a remote in the passenger compartment would be appropriate for this situation. If you decide to install something like that, post the brand/info. I might like to stick one in our inverter compartment.

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #2 – July 27, 2016, 06:29:40 pm

I have been thinking about that... One option is to take the automatic fire suppressor that I had installed behind the old absorption fridge and placing it near the electrical equipment. A smoke alarm would be another idea... better yet, a fire alarm that could control a relay to cut all power (A/C and DC) at the Mini-Panel. I have some ideas, but need some more research. I could replace the manual 600 Amp continuous switch with a latching relay version to make that possible, the A/C side might be harder. There are protections built in to the inverter, and of course the EMS for shore power, but nothing that can cut all power in one fell swoop.
Don

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – July 27, 2016, 06:02:34 pm

REALLY SCARY story! Glad it had a (mostly) happy ending. Electrical fires are nasty no matter where they occur, but certainly better to happen in the storage lot than when rolling down the highway. Good luck you were there to take prompt action!

I'm glad you got such positive support from your vendor and the manufacturer. Goes a long way toward soothing frayed nerves!

Perhaps a smoke alarm in the storage bay with a remote in the passenger compartment would be appropriate for this situation. If you decide to install something like that, post the brand/info. I might like to stick one in our inverter compartment.

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #3 – July 27, 2016, 08:08:52 pm

Wow Don, glad you caught it in time! Electrical fires are the worst!

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #4 – July 27, 2016, 10:31:52 pm

Glad it was still under warranty. It has been my experience that once you let the smoke out of a box it is very expensive to get the smoke put back in it.

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #5 – July 28, 2016, 01:52:07 am

Chuck, you can say that again! I can't say enough about Alan's willingness to help in this matter. He definitely went way beyond what I expected and made this as painless as it was possible to make it for me. I may well have come out the same in the end, but the road would have been long and anxiety provoking. I am way deep in the Magnum eco system with this inverter: network version of the auto generator start, the battery monitor, and ARC-50 remote, and the Magnum Mini-Panel. Of those, only the Mini Panel would have been useful without the inverter. So had Magnum not stood behind their product, there would have been about $700 worth of useless gear along with an Inverter that goes for about $1750. But you can rest assured that I would have chosen another manufacturer if Magnum had refused to honor the warranty! So 2 ½ coach bucks or so to replace what I had with a Victron 3000 watt inverter, and when you figure in the necessary accessories as well as completely redoing the installation? Plenty at stake! Not life and death matter, but a pretty huge chunk of time and money...
So if you have a need, check out Bay Marine Supply
I don't have any financial interest in this enterprise, just a satisfied customer. Alan is a commercial member of this forum and gives forum members a discount. Beyond that he is knowledgeable about many technical issues and generous with his time. He has actually talked me out of many products that he sells because he didn't think they were optimum for my application. That is pretty rare in my experience.
Don

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – July 27, 2016, 06:02:34 pm

I'm glad you got such positive support from your vendor and the manufacturer. Goes a long way toward soothing frayed nerves!

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #6 – July 28, 2016, 09:03:23 am

Not to derail the thread, but since we are talking about your Magnum inverter...

Have you had a chance (before it self-destructed) to utilize/test the "hybrid" function of the inverter? They offered us the Hybrid model when we had our inverter/PV system installed at AM Solar. After we discussed the pros (several) and cons (cost), we decided to stick with the conventional MS2812. We have never been in a situation since that time, when the "hybrid" mode would have come into play. I know Michelle was interested in the Hybrid model at one time...other members may also be interested in your thoughts.

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #7 – July 28, 2016, 09:16:09 am

Don,
Sounds like a happy ending to what could have been a coach-burner.
Glad it worked out the way it did for you.

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #8 – July 28, 2016, 09:32:27 am

Possible reason 250 breaker/fuse did not trip was the short (load) was not drawing over that amount.

On killing all power they make shunt breakers that can be used to make the breaker trip to the off position when you want it to.

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #9 – July 28, 2016, 09:40:01 am

Here are some fire and smoke alarms that could be used. They are for marine use in the engine compartment.

Fire and Smoke Alarms : AQUALARM, Warning Systems For Land And Sea

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #10 – July 28, 2016, 11:38:14 am

Don- glad you are ok. Sorry it had to happen and really glad that Alan gave you such great support. Something I will keep in mind if I need things from Bay Marine.

The most important thing is that you and Tys are safe and healthy. We can always replace "stuff" but never you.

Cya down the road my friend.

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #11 – July 28, 2016, 11:44:53 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – July 28, 2016, 09:03:23 am

Not to derail the thread, but since we are talking about your Magnum inverter...

Have you had a chance (before it self-destructed) to utilize/test the "hybrid" function of the inverter? They offered us the Hybrid model when we had our inverter/PV system installed at AM Solar. After we discussed the pros (several) and cons (cost), we decided to stick with the conventional MS2812. We have never been in a situation since that time, when the "hybrid" mode would have come into play. I know Michelle was interested in the Hybrid model at one time...other members may also be interested in your thoughts.

I had the same choice and went with the MS2812 also. So far so good!

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #12 – July 28, 2016, 12:34:21 pm

Nope. Before I put the hybrid inverter in the first time, there would have been many opportunities to use the feature... Like the whole time (almost two years!) I was working on the coach at my house and only had a 15 amp hookup. Since I put the first Magnum in, we have been at mostly 50 Amp sites, or sites with adequate 30 Amp power (Could have potentially used there, but I didn't monitor it). While it was removed, we were hooked up to 20 Amp power at our site in Jojoba Hills (there is excellent 50 Amp service there, but the Park Model trailer is hooked up to it and the coach is parked way around the other side of the pedestal from the trailer) while getting ready for the current trip, but of course the inverter had already fried then. I should have a chance to test it when we head back there in a few days and we park the coach on our site for a few days while we unload. I will update or start a new thread when I get the info...
It is an interesting topic, and because of the fact that the inverter circuit as wired from the factory doesn't power high amp draws like the air conditioners or water heater, it isn't as straight forward as one might think. That said, it should still be useful. For instance, running one A/C while hooked up to 20 Amp power and you want to boil some water with the electric kettle. The A/C is drawing about 14-16 Amps while running, the hybrid inverter will cease trying to charge the batteries and should supply power for anything on the inverter sub panel. This is set up under the charger section of the remote and takes place automatically. Ultimately, Intend to change the way the air conditioner is wired to allow for the load support to assist the rear A/C to start up where it might not otherwise, or even run it of the battery bank while running down the road. Likely will need a bigger alternator, more robust cabling, etc. But that is a whole other topic...
Don

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – July 28, 2016, 09:03:23 am

Not to derail the thread, but since we are talking about your Magnum inverter...

Have you had a chance (before it self-destructed) to utilize/test the "hybrid" function of the inverter? They offered us the Hybrid model when we had our inverter/PV system installed at AM Solar. After we discussed the pros (several) and cons (cost), we decided to stick with the conventional MS2812. We have never been in a situation since that time, when the "hybrid" mode would have come into play. I know Michelle was interested in the Hybrid model at one time...other members may also be interested in your thoughts.

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #13 – July 28, 2016, 02:52:33 pm

Don, when it is time for an alternator let me know. My new Delco 240 amp is wonderful. And I went to very big cables.

Two thumbs up for Alan at Bay Marine. Always has time for questions or will set some time to talk and is very much customer oriented. Great guy to deal with.

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Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

July 27, 2016, 05:18:51 pm

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #1 – July 27, 2016, 06:02:34 pm

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #2 – July 27, 2016, 06:29:40 pm

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #3 – July 27, 2016, 08:08:52 pm

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #4 – July 27, 2016, 10:31:52 pm

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #5 – July 28, 2016, 01:52:07 am

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #6 – July 28, 2016, 09:03:23 am

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #7 – July 28, 2016, 09:16:09 am

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #8 – July 28, 2016, 09:32:27 am

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #9 – July 28, 2016, 09:40:01 am

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #10 – July 28, 2016, 11:38:14 am

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #11 – July 28, 2016, 11:44:53 am

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Reply #12 – July 28, 2016, 12:34:21 pm

Re: Up in smoke! (not the Cheech and Chong movie)

Reply #13 – July 28, 2016, 02:52:33 pm

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