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Topic: Progressive industries and Hughes autoformer use together (Read 1226 times) previous topic - next topic

Progressive industries and Hughes autoformer use together

I ran across a low voltage situation at Serrano campground in big bear lake this week while camping.

The progressive unit did its job and right at dinner time around the park our unit shut down our power as the voltage dropped below the 104 that the unit uses to shut off the power for safety.

I bought a Hughes autoformer without the advanced surge protection and had it delivered yesterday.

Need the experts opinion here about how to use these together and if you should?

And did I do wrong to not buy the advanced surge protection Hughes unit?

How much surge protection is in the progressive unit?

Anyone has the original Hughes unit die from surge if it's plugged in first?

Should I return the unopened Hughes unit and get the advanced surge unit instead?

Did not know a new unit was available when I ordered the Hughes unit.

Seems a good idea to use both units. 

Or do I not need the progressive unit with the Hughes?
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Progressive industries and Hughes autoformer use together

Reply #1 –
Tys had the Hughes Autoformer at her park model when we met. It failed and put the two legs of the 50 Amp service together. I happened to be looking at the display on a UPS that was plugged in. I saw 167 volts on the display. End result, a fridge, a microwave, a stereo, and maybe a few more things were fried and had to be replaced. Hughes repaired the Autoformer under warranty, without admitting that the unit had failed and put the two legs together. Hughes states in their instructions that if used in conjunction with separate a surge protector, that the Autoformer should be behind the surge protector. We still have the Autoformer and use it once in a great while in some questionable voltage situations, but I would never ever use one without protection downstream of it to protect the coach systems. Our progressive industries unit is hardwired, but if we used and external unit, the Autoformer would be the first inline. Of course, you could have an external unit in front of the Autoformer, and then the hardwired unit in after that (like having a belt and suspenders!) and we have done that on occasion. But I will never trust the Autoformer to be the sole guardian at the gate... Just my experience, YMMV.
Don
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Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Progressive industries and Hughes autoformer use together

Reply #2 –
I do like the dual unit idea. 
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Progressive industries and Hughes autoformer use together

Reply #3 –
I have used the dual unit together several time. I plug the hughes into the pedestal first and the progressive into the hughes. You will find that the voltage will be good when the park supply voltage is to low for the progressive to work. However, once the park voltage returns to normal around 120+, the hughes does add about 2+volts. This means that it can cause the progressive now to shut off for high voltage! Still, no damage - just need to remove the hughes from the circuit. This is what we have experienced.
Bob
Bob & Kathy
2007 Nimbus
Full Timers
Retired Charter Bus Owner/Operator

Re: Progressive industries and Hughes autoformer use together

Reply #4 –
Quote from: bobnkathy –
I have used the dual unit together several time. I plug the hughes into the pedestal first and the progressive into the hughes. You will find that the voltage will be good when the park supply voltage is to low for the progressive to work. However, once the park voltage returns to normal around 120+, the hughes does add about 2+volts. This means that it can cause the progressive now to shut off for high voltage! Still, no damage - just need to remove the hughes from the circuit. This is what we have experienced.
Bob

Great info,  thanks
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Progressive industries and Hughes autoformer use together

Reply #5 –
My thought is that almost all surge protection is overstated, more marketing than technology.  Most use very inexpensive MOV devices that quickly ('clamp') connect hot & neutral wires to ground at a specific designed high voltage.  And since the connection causes a short to ground, the MOV self-destructs, which is why they are field replaceable.

I think that significant surges are rare but when they happen, they can overwhelm surge protections and still destroy components after the surge protector.  So that is why I think they are more marketing, always with a big joule rating to impress us.  Marketing also is used to instill fear if we don't have surge protection.

We believe in and use surge protection, but don't think they will prevent damage from major surges.  Our shore cable EMS, located under our bed, is hardwired on the cable into the transfer switch.

Surge protection is NOT over-voltage protection like we have with Progressive Industries EMS.  We all need EMS or equivalent to protect from high & low voltage, which can come from shore and generator.  EMS does have a field replaceable MOV surge circuit board.

On several occasions we have put our Hughes Autoformer (without Advanced Surge Protection) into the shore-power circuit.  We are not comfortable placing $500 on the ground outside our motorhome, not to mention it is not water/weather proof.  So we use a 50-amp extension shore-cable with a standard female outlet (same as on campground pedestal) on the coach end, which is placed inside our locked compartment.  We plug our Autoformer, which is also in the compartment, into the 50-amp extension, and plug a normal coach shore-cable into the Autoformer.  Both plug connections are securely locked up in the compartment.

In the above scenario,  we don't need a 30-something-foot long shore cable, so we made a 5-foot shore cable from a Lowe's range pigtail.  We had converted our coach electric connection to the much-safer SmartPlug (eliminating the not-so-trusty twist-lock connector).  So we had to get a 2nd female SmartPlug cord-end for our 5-foot shore cable.

Re: Progressive industries and Hughes autoformer use together

Reply #6 –
I noticed the Hughes goes into bypass mode past 125 volts. 

So at that point the progressive EMS  would shut off the power for its nominal 2 minutes 16 seconds.

The old Hughes has a factory replaceable internal surge circuit which matches your description.

Later units have user replaceable surge.

I live 35 miles from the Hughes factory so it's not a big deal if it dies.

I would still have the progressive units protection just no boost from the alternate windings in the Hughes.

Manual on the Hughes says weather proof not waterproof as is the progressive unit.

As far as leaving $800+ outside it surely needs addressing. 

Maybe a open grille steel bar box would be nice. 
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Progressive industries and Hughes autoformer use together

Reply #7 –
Bob,

Left my Autoformer connected all last summer at the RV park.  Chained it to the pedestal and put it on a brick as the park tends to flood a little.  Worked great in conjunction with the Progressive Industries unit built into coach.  Did not have any water intrusion problems.

Keith
Keith, Joyce & Smokey the Australian Cattle Dog
1995 U320 SE Extreme 40' WTBI Build # 4780, with a Honda CR-V hopefully still following behind.
Motorcade # 17030
FMCA # F422159
 

Re: Progressive industries and Hughes autoformer use together

Reply #8 –
Response to Barry's post

A number years back I had taken a course offered by Panamax on surge suppression.  Before that course I had felt surge suppression was a waste of money.  In taking the course they explained and showed us in demo's that MOV's really do work. The problems start is when the MOV burns up due to a surge that was greater then the surge suppressor was made to handle. Once the MOV's had burned up  there was no protection after that, so the next surge that comes along goes and takes out what you have behind the surge suppressor.  A lot of surge suppressors have idiot lights with them. When the light is on the MOV's are still good. When the light goes out the MOV's have gotten eaten up and you have no protection and the device needs to be replaced. I would never use one without the lights since you would never know when it gotten eaten up.

I have installed an Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA-1 at the breaker box  in our FT, house and office. I feel this is one of the better ones I have seen on the market.  As long as the lights are lite I know it is still working. 

As a fyi, if you buy a Panamax surge protector plug strip and it gets eaten up it will shut down and the devices that you have plugged into it will not work at all to keep the next surge from taking your items out. I have tried to have one installed at all of the major appliances.  Most surge plug strips will keep on letting the power thru without any protection.

2014 ih45  (4th Foretravel owned)
 1997 36' U295 Sold in 2020, owned for 19 years
  U240 36' Sold to insurance company after melting in garage fire
    33' Foretravel on Dodge Chassis  Sold very long time ago