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Topic: Coolant Dilemma (Read 793 times) previous topic - next topic

Coolant Dilemma

I think the coolant in my rig is the original Shell Rotella ELC which is supposed to be good for 600,000 miles, with an extender added at 300,000 miles.  The Shell product description doesn't mention anything concerning time, only mileage regarding a change interval.

Cummins ran my engine number and told me that it originally had Shell Rotella ELC with a 4-unit SCA/DCA water filter.

The water filter that's on the engine now is dated 07/10 with magic marker, and it's a 4-unit additive filter.

Everything I've read says no additives to ELC, just the extender.  A trucker's forum has a post concerning a shop adding  SCA's/DCA's
to his ELC and when he told them they shouldn't have they drained, flushed and refilled his cooling system with fresh ELC at their expense.

I only have about 80,000 miles on my rig and the coolant looks good, clean, dark red, proper freeze protection, etc.  The thing I'm most concerned about is the 4-unit filter that was on it originally and the 4-unit filter that was put on in 2010, (and who knows, there could be others put on between 2003 and 2010), as ELC's aren't supposed to have additives

For starters I'm thinking that I should get the JG Lubricant Services test kit to see what the condition of the coolant is.

Re: Coolant Dilemma

Reply #1 –
You are correct to be concerned.  Verify with whatever lab you choose that they can identify if the system has been contaminated by SCA/DCA. Suspect one 4 unit filter would not be a big issue, but suspect multiple 4 unit filter changes would.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Coolant Dilemma

Reply #2 –
Brett,

One correction to my original post;  The engine left the factory with a 4-unit filter, and FT filled the system with Rotella ELC.  Cummins screws in a filter during assembly and the coach manufacturer chooses what coolant they put in, each manufacturer using the coolant of their choice.

What about (2) 4-unit filters, the one that left Cummins and FT, and a second one that was put on by someone that was merely replacing what they saw was there?  That would mean that for the coolant's entire life of 13 years/80,000 miles it has had the 4-unit additives.  Also wondering now if FT put the ELC coolant in and left the 4-unit filter that Cummins installed?  It would seem that they should know enough to replace it with a blank when they use the Rotella ELC exclusively.

Cummins referred me to a testing lab in Knoxville, TN so I'm hand carrying a sample of my coolant there today.  Should have the results tomorrow.  Will have them look for SCA/DCA contamination.

Thanks

Re: Coolant Dilemma

Reply #3 –
Yup, a test (assuming they can test for excessive SCA/DCA concentration) is much better than our speculation. 

Again, be sure to share your concern and verify that this is one of the tests they can perform.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Coolant Dilemma

Reply #4 –
If it were mine I would flush and refill with a known coolant and filter. It would be relatively inexpensive to do so and I would feel much more comfortable knowing exactly what was in my cooling system.
David and Carolyn Osborn
1995 U320C SE 40' Build 4726 Feb 1995
FMCA 147762
Motorcade 17186

Re: Coolant Dilemma

Reply #5 –
Good answer, David.

And, not even a bad idea at 13 years old even if not contaminated by SCA/DCA.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Coolant Dilemma

Reply #6 –
Why not just start fresh and forget what you think previous owner did..  Drain, flush, drain, flush, as many time as you want and then fill with distlilled water, drain, fill with new coolant of your choice and a blank filter.  Much better to spend time choosing what is best going forward.  Run engine between drains to heat up and open thermostat.
Old coolant gathers contaminates over time and no matter how we measure, we are never sure of how old coolant contributes to rusting of heater cores, etc.  You are protecting expensive components with unknown coolant.
BTW we use Fleetguard ES Compeat EG and change it around 4-5 years, which we just did again.

Re: Coolant Dilemma

Reply #7 –
I'm new to this forum but not to proper maintenance.

Something I learned over the years is 40% of all engine failures are related to cooling system malfunctions. I always erred on the safe side. A good lab should be able to check for SCA

But.....for a few hundred bucks do you want to take a chance on launching a $30k engine. You will probably be ok....but
There is always that but

Re: Coolant Dilemma

Reply #8 –
That's what I did a while ago I removed thermostat  drained and flushed with filtered water 3 times after running engine for awhile with dash heater on and engine pump on Aqua Hot after turning engine off each time, then 2 times with distilled water then reinstalled t-stat fill with ELC and install new  blank filter.
Art
1997 Prevost 40'
 The selected media item is not currently available.

Re: Coolant Dilemma

Reply #9 –
Flushing and filling with known coolant is a good idea. I'd sure go ahead and replace the engine coolant hoses while i was at it.....
"Not so  long ago we were a nation of risk takers, riding five million pounds of  thrust straight into space."  Joe Gresh
Chuck Pearson
1996 U295
2018 Can Am X3 TurboRS

Re: Coolant Dilemma

Reply #10 –
I'm going to flush the system and refill with new Shell Rotella ELC.

From what I've read high phosphate condition is caused by too much SCA and can result in water pump seal
leakage, at least with a CAT.  Hopefully the same is true with Cummins.

Re: Coolant Dilemma

Reply #11 –
Hopefully we have a chemist amongst us.

But, the out of spec phosphate concentration is likely due to the addition of SCA.

Were it me, I would to the proper flush with tap water, last rinse with distilled water and and the proper quantity of coolant CONCENTRATE (50% of cooling system capacity). Top off with distilled water.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Coolant Dilemma

Reply #12 –
That's my plan Brett.
Just had the test done to determine if I need an engine rebuild along with the coolant change.

Thanks

Re: Coolant Dilemma

Reply #13 –
Quote from: wolfe10 –
Hopefully we have a chemist amongst us.

We did, and a Cummins coolant one at that, but he hasn't been on the forum in 4 years.  Still might be worth sending an e-mail

http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1615
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Coolant Dilemma

Reply #14 –
Again, NOT a chemist, but would assume that your cylinder liners were OVER-protected.  May be some deposits in the cooling system, but doubt seriously if any engine damage.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Coolant Dilemma

Reply #15 –
That's great news!

Now, about removing the thermostat to burp the system when changing the coolant.  Is there an O-ring seal, or a gasket under the neck.?  Do I  have to remove the thermostat or can I remove the small tube (air-line?) just above it to release any air?
 

Re: Coolant Dilemma

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Travelin' Man –
That's great news!

Now, about removing the thermostat to burp the system when changing the coolant.  Is there an O-ring seal, or a gasket under the neck.?  Do I  have to remove the thermostat or can I remove the small tube (air-line?) just above it to release any air?
If the air line you are talking about goes to the exspansion tank just leave the cap off.
The selected media item is not currently available.Bill&Doris 97 U270 36'
University of Parris Island Class of 66
Semper Fi  Build# 5174 MC#17094