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Topic: Code reader, VSMPC, or both? (Read 636 times) previous topic - next topic

Code reader, VSMPC, or both?

It seems that the proper code reader for my coach is obsolete, so finding one is going to be a challenge. A question on another thread jogged my old brain, and the question of a VSMPC resurfaced. Three questions, then: 1. would that work on my Detroit? 2. Would it also work as a code reader? 3. Do both devices use the same connection?

Related question: is there any way to read transmission faults other than by the blinking light?

Re: Code reader, VSMPC, or both?

Reply #1 –
This gets a bit hard to answer.  Info from the transmission will be limited.  The Allisons from 1995 have a pretty limited set of information. If your DD is an electronic one (DDEC) then there is some information available.  Whether or not you get fault codes or not I just don't know.  It takes a special cable and plug too.  By the time you get to the late 90's most everything is available.  Error codes are logged and you can go back and see what they say. When my alternator was underperforming I would see low voltage on number six injector, things like that and dozens of others.  New alternator and isolator, I see almost none now.

Let me know if you want to try it out. I can get a cable soon. If you have a PC then all you need is the JIB and the cable and download the software.
Roger Engdahl and Susan Green
2001 U320 3610 #5879 (Home2) - 2014 Jeep Cherokee or 2018 F150
Hastings, MN

Re: Code reader, VSMPC, or both?

Reply #2 –
Here is the site for a wireless connection from your Detroit 60 and 92 series to an iPad: RV Techtools This will give you a glass dash and even a HUD.

It will read, translate and clear all codes. It will not test injectors, do fast idle, etc, etc.  While the bluetooth adapter for cars is only about $10, the RV adapter is expensive. The app is free. It can be downloaded and has a demo simulation included with the free app.

The 2-cycle version was designed for the 8 cylinder 92 series (12 liters) found on Wanderlodges and Prevosts but may work on our smaller 6 cylinder (9 liter) Foretravel version.

And yes, there is room in a U300 for the V-8.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Code reader, VSMPC, or both?

Reply #3 –
"And yes, there is room in a U300 for the V-8." Unfortunately, my bank account isn't that roomy.

Of course, that doesn't stop me from dreaming about what a brand new GV with a modern engine and transmission would be like. About all we'd change would be to give a bit more room at the foot of the bed and raise the kitchen counter up to standard height.

The reason I brought this up is that I'm wondering if a cheap Windows laptop running the VSMPC software would end up giving me not only the fault codes (and maybe the ability to clear them) but also all of the other information at a fairly low cost. We're all Mac here, so no spare Windows machines, but they are cheap and plentiful. Just thinking a bit about what might be possible.

We're going to be moving a bit between now and next week, but the plan is to land at the Hondo, TX SKP park for a month. I'm thinking that I won't buy anything until we land there. Keep the thoughts and suggestions coming, though.

Re: Code reader, VSMPC, or both?

Reply #4 –
Quote from: kb0zke –
It seems that the proper code reader for my coach is obsolete, so finding one is going to be a challenge. A question on another thread jogged my old brain, and the question of a VSMPC resurfaced. Three questions, then: 1. would that work on my Detroit? 2. Would it also work as a code reader? 3. Do both devices use the same connection?

Related question: is there any way to read transmission faults other than by the blinking light?

The fast idle alone (1000 rpms) ability of the Pro-Link I discovered while running a manual cut-out test made the Pro- Link worth what I paid for it.  My rig didn't come OEM with that ability from Foretravel.  I suppose you could rig up some kind of switch but the Pro-Link makes it a piece of cake!  I use it while going down the road to check the DDEC II parameters, monitor road speed, mpg, coolant temp, oil pressure, fuel temp, etc,etc, etc.  If you do get a code the Pro-Link will tell you what it is.  You can only read four lines at a time, but with the attached printer port you can get printed results or link up to a laptop with a  DEC VT100 terminal emulator from the data that is stored or tests you run.  I consider part of my rig and I don't leave home without it! 

There is an ATEC cartridge for transmission but I don't have one yet.  A later version of the Pro-Link use a single large Multi- Protocol cartridge for the reader and smaller easier to exchange pcmcia cards for the various systems. 

Jerry
The selected media item is not currently available.
Jerry and Cindy Maddux
1993 U300/36WTBI DD6v92TA
build 4271  "Miss Lou"
1995 suzuki sidekick 4x4 toad
Gulfport, Ms

"Pride of Ownership"

Re: Code reader, VSMPC, or both?

Reply #5 –
David,

All Mac/Android here too but I did pick up a fairly late Sony Viao for $100 but when you add $395 for the VSMPC, it's about 3 times what I paid for each one of my Pro-Links and won't do the fast idle and many other of the 45 or so functions. Ebay has NEW  DDEC II-III cartridges for $250 plus about $100 for a reader is still less. One member just picked up the reader and cartridge for under $100.

On the other hand, it would be nice to have a PC screen displaying all the info as you drive.

Did you fix your problem by adding coolant?

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Code reader, VSMPC, or both?

Reply #6 –
With out the Pro-Link our Alaska trip this last summer, we would had a very uneasy trip. Water temp was unrealiable on the 6v92, the Pro-Link read property. Replaced engine temp probe after we got back, problems solved. Kept the Pro-Link connected.
George Ray 1992 U280 40'

Re: Code reader, VSMPC, or both?

Reply #7 –
David,
I have an old VMS system on my coach, called a VMS II.  It's a stand alone system with a display and controls in a single box that plugs in under the dash.  As far as I can tell it's the same brains as the VMSpc system.  This is based on the free VMSpc software download from Silverleaf that I have looked at.  In the menu for selecting the engine there is no 6V92 option but there is a 8V92 option which is what I use.  The HP and torque displayed values are not correct and the trip MPG doesn't work but instantaneous MPG does work.  I can see and clear codes but the clearing part doesn't last on the next power up if IIRC.  I can see an assortment of other functions such a engine temp, turbo boost pressure, rpm, throttle position, speed, cruise control set point, engine load %, fuel rate, oil pressure, and fuel temperature and others.  From what I gathered (from other owners and my own research) is the Trip MPG functionality works on '92 and later coaches due to a slight change in the DDEC II hardware.

I just looked at the download page and see a new (April 2016) file called "additional engines" with the 6V92 in 330 hp and 335 hp levels.  Since it's not 350 hp I'm not sure what additional functionality this would add.
VMSpc Downloads | SilverLeaf Electronics, Inc.
So I can't tell you for sure if the VMSpc system would work but I think so.  If it does, it does so with less than 100% functionality compared to newer Cummins electronic engines.  A call to Silverleaf might be a good idea to verify this.

As to the transmission, my electronic MTB648 does not talk to the VMS at all.  My understanding is it needs to be an Allison World Transmission (3000/4000) or newer.  I believe your transmission is a 700 series so it too wouldn't talk to the VMS. 

I think the advantage of the VMS system over the Prolink is ease of display.  The VMS allows you to set up all the things you want to see in a single display with lots of options.  It's a system for the driver to monitor the engine.  The Prolink is primarily a mechanics tool with fixed menu displays with some limited ability to change parameters inside the DDEC.  Maybe some Prolink owners can confirm this.
John Fitzgerald
1991 U300 (SAI) Side Aisle Island Bed 40'
Detroit 6V92 with Allison Retarder
Meridian (Boise), Idaho

Re: Code reader, VSMPC, or both?

Reply #8 –
The prolink is a mechanics tool. It will show you everything that the silver leaf does but you have to scroll to that screenvto view it. It also lets you change some paremeter settings,like gear ratio,tire size, etc.it will let you perform cylinder cutout testing,see injector response times, on ddec 3 and up ecms you can switch between different hp programs if they are already in ECM. You cannot program a ecm with it. It is not designed to be used as a silverleaf system,but you can it won't hurt the tool. you can set injector codes with it but they are not applicable to ddec2 systems . It can do quite s bit and is handy to have when running these old dinasours. Remember the people who work on these is getting fewer and if your going to run these the more special tools you can supply to a mechanic who dosnt have them will benefit you greatly.
91 GV U300 Unihome 40' Build 3811
6V92TA Detroit

Re: Code reader, VSMPC, or both?

Reply #9 –
Thanks John for some real world DD VMspc experience.  The engine files have things like the torque/HP/RPM data.  This gets used in the of the calculated fields.  On other gauges if there is a difference between display and actual there are an offset (fixed) and a % (variable) corrections available.
Roger Engdahl and Susan Green
2001 U320 3610 #5879 (Home2) - 2014 Jeep Cherokee or 2018 F150
Hastings, MN
 

Re: Code reader, VSMPC, or both?

Reply #10 –
It's like comparing an arc welder to a cutting torch. The Silverleaf is like a glass cockpit in an aircraft. You could lay a flat display over the existing instrument panel and be cutting edge. The price for laptops/tablets is dirt cheap now so with a bluetooth plug or cable, you could  see everything you normally do plus fuel mileage, codes, etc. The only negative is the price for the connection hardware. On ebay, you can purchase a bluetooth adapter for PCs, Androids and iOS for as little as $5. The page linked has a nice OBDII bluetooth scanner for most vehicles and is only $15. While it will read J1939 protocol (DDEC III), it won't link to J1708, the protocol that the DDEC II uses. Unfortunately, all Detroit 6V-92TAs in Foretravels are DDEC II. Link to the bluetooth reader: ELM327 OBDII OBD2 Bluetooth Auto Scanner for NISSAN JEEP HONDA TOYOTA FORD... So, DDEC II owners must to spend several hundred dollars for either an expensive bluetooth reader or Silverleaf for $400 plus. I would think that pretty soon, J1708 may be included in the list of protocols the devices support. Then, you only need the inexpensive OBDII to GM 16 pin adapter.

Yes, quite correct that the Pro-Link is a diagnostic tool. It does only read 4 lines at a time so while it's slick for fast idle, etc. It won't replace the Silverleaf or iPad bluetooth glass instrument panel in any way. But, when you have a problem or want to do a cylinder check, the Pro-Link is super easy to use and one trip to a shop would pay for several of these Pro-Links. There are Cummins and CAT cartridges for those with ECUs but have not found any reasonable.

Here is a very expensive upgrade an Australian shop has built for a customer's bus. Note the tool he is using is a Pro-Link 9000 to sort the new engine on the test stand. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlSkMcY1rUA

A glass dash or a tool? Nice to have both.

Pierce




Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)