Engine Fire Suppression System

Topic: Engine Fire Suppression System (Read 1347 times) previous topic - next topic

Engine Fire Suppression System

January 12, 2017, 11:50:10 am

The fire yesterday of the coach in Timpson Texas reminded me, I need to revisit this topic....

The photos of the Timpson fire do not make it look, to me, like a refrigerator fire. Brad said the same, I saw some other pictures seem to confirm that.

I know Don Cox was driving by saw a coach here in Nac that was on fire, from the engine compartment, as the owner was trying to crank it. He did not know his coach was burning down. Don got him to leave, got garden hoses to no avail. Coach total lost. Owner ok.

Which leads me to wonder.....what are the common causes of engine fires, the most common, and how prevent them?

Should we routinely inspect this particular fuel line or connection or device? What to look for? There have been discussions of engine fires and some thoughts about a fire suppression system for engines. (do search, engine fires). Some suggested at least a fire detection system in the engine compartment to alert the driver.

Just thinking.... If you use search for engine fires you will find some good resources, but I am not sure there is a general checklist and suppression system recommended. I will look further into such as get time. Do I recall the IH45s have a suppression system?

Re: Engine Fire Suppression System

Reply #1 – January 12, 2017, 11:57:02 am

One of the first things I did when I purchased my 2007 Nimbus is install a total fire suppression system. That included foam units in the engine area, the generator area, and the hydo hot area. Dry chemical in all the other areas including the battery compartment. Finally, there are sensors in every cabinet, engine area, and generator area that when activated will set off a 120 decibel siren inside and outside the coach. It even says the word fire and which area is triggering the alarm. We had these systems on my fleet of over the road buses and saved two buses from a total loss when each blew an engine. Worth the money for sure.

Bob

Re: Engine Fire Suppression System

Reply #2 – January 12, 2017, 12:00:32 pm

Mike,

Clearly, keeping an eye on fuel, hydraulic and electrical systems will prevent most engine-room fires.

While fire suppression in the engine room would be great, most types are not practical. Most work by displacing oxygen. No oxygen, no fire.

Since the engine room is at best open and at worse with a huge fan adding air to it, that kind of suppression system is not practical.

Oxygen displacement fire suppression systems do work very well in confined spaces-- have installed them on several of our sailboats. But, the engine compartment is a very confined space. Displace oxygen in that confined space, and presto, no fire.

Foam and other types of system can be used in open engine rooms.

Re: Engine Fire Suppression System

Reply #3 – January 12, 2017, 12:21:40 pm

I add my comment to Brett's in so much that a nice clean engine area and hydraulics will sure help in noticing any possible leaks and potential fire risks.
JohnH

Re: Engine Fire Suppression System

Reply #4 – January 12, 2017, 12:24:42 pm

Thanks to both of you....is really really scary stuff. To be on fire and not know it.

I recall Shirley Crawford had a fire driving her 1994 GV down highway. Destroyed a bit of the rear, new engine required, and her toad completely.

I do look for drips of oil, coolant, fuel on the concrete when stored at home. I look too at RV park but not much I could see where park RV unless a large leak might show on grass or gravel.

Think I need a good LED flashlight, raise coach some and look better. I already do this to look at wheels, see if any fluid leaking there. Add in the generator.

I am glad our propane refrigerator is gone though I waited until it failed to go to residential. I asked Mr. Risch one time....why move all coaches out of the shop at night, afraid of fires from diesel? Nope, from the refrigerators! Oh.

If I had a pet, I would leave the door unlocked if I were out....where we park, friends would save them. Probably. Hope my insurance would cover a neighbor's coach if mine got their's too.

Gotta worry less! Then I see another fire.

Thanks again Brett and Bob. And John for idea to clean the engine area....guess just soap and water, ,no pressure wash?

Re: Engine Fire Suppression System

Reply #5 – January 12, 2017, 12:27:50 pm

The batteries and fuel filters are in the area of that fire also. Making sure all connections are tight in that area might be prudent also. A fuel filter leak and hot bad connection could start a fire.

Re: Engine Fire Suppression System

Reply #6 – January 12, 2017, 02:32:21 pm

Quote from: Michael & Jackie – January 12, 2017, 11:50:10 am

Which leads me to wonder.....what are the common causes of engine fires, the most common, and how prevent them?

Engine compartment fires risks include the hot side exhaust of the turbo failing. Just the turbo location on our U300 was enough to almost start a fire. As you can see, the insulation burns rapidly. Another member lost his coach after a turbo repair. The exhaust pipe came loose and the turbo blew the hot gases against the insulation. They only had time to stop and get out of the coach. Here are photos of the insulation and what I did. One is the generator compartment where the exhaust pipe melted the insulation and was starting on the plywood. Also the fridge compartment with the new backerboard.
Engine compartment:
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Fridge compartment:
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The last owner of our coach had a fridge failure while they were in the coach. The smelled ammonia and ran for the door. No fire this time.

Pierce

Re: Engine Fire Suppression System

Reply #7 – January 12, 2017, 03:03:02 pm

Hearsay on coach that burned yesterday in TX Now at Foretravel - likely total loss Newer owner - not forum member- only had a short time' No injuries to owner or pet

If all true, the coach can be replaced....

Re: Engine Fire Suppression System

Reply #8 – January 12, 2017, 04:39:39 pm

Quote from: Michael & Jackie – January 12, 2017, 12:24:42 pm

If I had a pet, I would leave the door unlocked if I were out....where we park, friends would save them.

We never lock our rig when we're away, and ask the neighbors to let our dog out if they see the FT on fire.

Re: Engine Fire Suppression System

Reply #9 – January 12, 2017, 07:55:17 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – January 12, 2017, 12:00:32 pm

Mike,

Clearly, keeping an eye on fuel, hydraulic and electrical systems will prevent most engine-room fires.

While fire suppression in the engine room would be great, most types are not practical. Most work by displacing oxygen. No oxygen, no fire.

Since the engine room is at best open and at worse with a huge fan adding air to it, that kind of suppression system is not practical.

Oxygen displacement fire suppression systems do work very well in confined spaces-- have installed them on several of our sailboats. But, the engine compartment is a very confined space. Displace oxygen in that confined space, and presto, no fire.

Foam and other types of system can be used in open engine rooms.

I agree seeing foam systems at work on an actual engine fire. I had a MCI bus catch fire in the engine compartment due to a severed line. I was following my bus with my other MCI and watched the scene play out in front of my eyes. My driver in the bus on fire never knew he was on fire. No matter how many times I flashed my lights and blew the horns, he did not notice my signaling him. It was not for a full five minutes before it was safe to pull along side of him and flag him down. I did see flames briefly but once the extinguisher went off I only had smoke and steam. When I was able to finally get the bus on the side of the road, the fire was out, engine covered in foam. We washed it down, found the line that ruptured that caused the problem, repaired it on the spot and got back on the road. Without this foam extinguisher the bus could have been totaled. This is now the same type of system on my Foretravel. Foam does work in areas like an engine compartment.

You can also replace the dry chemical extingusiher found up front in the coach with a foam unit so you have a portable foam extinguisher on hand.
Bob

Re: Engine Fire Suppression System

Reply #10 – January 12, 2017, 08:28:49 pm

Quote from: bobnkathy – January 12, 2017, 07:55:17 pm

I would politely disagree seeing foam systems at work on an actual engine fire.

Foam does work in areas like an engine compartment.

You and Brett are in total agreement. The last sentence in his quote says:

"Foam and other types of system can be used in open engine rooms."

Re: Engine Fire Suppression System

Reply #11 – January 12, 2017, 08:44:25 pm

Effective fire suppression systems also shutoff fuel and hydraulic sources. Fuel suppression systems on Diesel engines are also supposed to cutoff air inlet because a ruptured line can inject fuel in the air inlet keeping the engine running, pumping more fuel. Sizing the suppression system for an engine compartment requires substantial more suppressing material due to the open nature, more cost but doable.

Re: Engine Fire Suppression System

Reply #12 – January 13, 2017, 12:57:27 am

I've responded to many truck fires and a couple of transit bus fires during my career. In the case of the commercial trucks, it was more often in the wheel well as a result of overheated brakes (brake fluid leak onto hot rotors or a dragging pad/shoe. Where it was in the engine compartment, it was fuel leak in proximity of an "ignition source" like a turbo (I have a turbo blanket on my ISM). In all of our vehicle fires we used the cooling effect of large amounts of water and foam was added to cover the surface of any fuel on the ground, creating a barrier between the fuel and air. A fire needs three things: ignition source, fuel and air. CO2 would extinguish the fire, but if the ignition source (hot turbo, etc.) isn't removed or cooled, it can re-ignite if fuel and air is still present. Shutting the engine (and injector pump) will remove the fuel part of this "triangle" and hitting it with a dry chem or CO2 extinguisher should take care of the fire. I carry two of the larger dry chem extinguishers that Costco carries. Many car fires have been put out by other drivers running over with their extinguishers.
This is a good reason to have the back up camera on all the time.

Re: Engine Fire Suppression System

Reply #13 – January 13, 2017, 08:45:12 am

Quote from: Sven and Kristi – January 13, 2017, 12:57:27 am

This is a good reason to have the back up camera on all the time.

X2! One of many good reasons!

Re: Engine Fire Suppression System

Reply #14 – January 13, 2017, 10:20:44 am

After reading of the fire yesterday, I ordered a Halon extinguisher for the fridge, and new smoke detectors for the coach. In addition I spoke to wife about where extinguishers are, what to do, exits are, etc.. Very scary stuff, so glad no one was hurt.
Be Safe Everyone!
Love this forum!
dave

Re: Engine Fire Suppression System

Reply #15 – January 13, 2017, 12:05:38 pm

Excellent! The older Foretravels all have very flammable Lauan to line the fridge compartment. If the fridge fails and there is any kind of rodent nest close to where the flame it, the coach is history. Close proximity to the Lauan is sketchy anyway. While our 12V wiring is excellent, the 110V in many places is very sloppy. One member just wrote about a burn through in a hidden Romex run in his coach.

It's only a couple day project to rebuild the fridge compartment and clean up the wiring before installing a new helium or RV reefer. The wood support on the inside of the outside access door is probably rotten so will need replacing.

Pierce

Re: Engine Fire Suppression System

Reply #16 – January 13, 2017, 02:41:53 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – January 13, 2017, 12:05:38 pm

While our 12V wiring is excellent, the 110V in many places is very sloppy. One member just wrote about a burn through in a hidden Romex run in his coach.

There is a good explanation (not an excuse) for some of the problems with the 110/120 VAC wiring in our Foretravels. I will address that in a separate thread.

Trent

Re: Engine Fire Suppression System

Reply #17 – January 16, 2017, 11:59:34 pm

FIRE SCARES THE HELL OUT ME.

Living thru a (trailer) fire 45 years ago was more than enough.
I have 5 Large portable Halon extinguishers and 1 Automatic Halon ext., that lives inside the exterior hatch near the fridge.
The 5 are scattered throughout the coach and are on station whenever I start-up.

I've also put smoke alarms in the kitchen and engine compartments.
Insulation is a huge problem unless you regularly perform maintenance on ALL leaks.
Oil soaked insulation with forced air, is as close to a blow-torch as anything I can imagine.

Have your power source's steam cleaned on a regular schedule to
insure that when you do an inspection you can identify the leaks.
(EVERY TIME YOU FIRE-UP.. pun intended.) pc

Re: Engine Fire Suppression System

Reply #18 – January 17, 2017, 06:46:26 pm

Second area I put fire suppression in, used an AFFF system with heads on both sides of the engine. Got rid of the POS refer, put a halon system in the electronics bay. If I can't leave the boyz in the coach, I don't have any need for it.

Re: Engine Fire Suppression System

Reply #19 – January 17, 2017, 06:51:33 pm

The Boyz.

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