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Propane Refill Trouble

Our last few propane fillups have been at the local Tractor Supply.  This store just started doing propane, and most visits the person helping us has never filled up anything bigger than a 5 gal jug, and our FT is a bit intimidating to them.

Trip 1: Normal fillup.  When the meter sensed our tank was full (around 65-70% on our gauge), there was an audible click - and it stopped filling.

Trip 2: We didn't open our tank's relief valve quite far enough.  The tank wasn't clearing space fast enough for the propane to fill - and the meter chugged to a shaking stop 2 or 3 times - almost like a car stalling - before we figured it out and opened the valve further.  Again when the meter thought our tank was full (65-70% again) there was an audible click.
...
Trip 3 - the problem fill.
Yesterday when we went to fill up, our tank was almost completely empty, probably down to 5%.  Expected based on our use - no reason to think gauges weren't working correctly.

BUT - on fillup, the meter stopped at 11.7 gallons.  No chugging to a stop, no audible click - it just stopped filling the tank.  Unhooked everything, rehooked, gave us another 6 gallons before doing the same thing.  Two more unhooks and rehooks gave us another 1 or 2 gallons - we ended up with less than half a tank of propane.

Question:  Because there was no audible click or chugging, I assumed it was a problem with their meter? Their guy said their source tank wasn't empty, but maybe the level was too low to fill our larger-than-normal tank?  It was also well below freezing outside, could that be a cause?

I plan to go back this Saturday to see if there is a repeat issue, but in the meantime is there anything I can check on my end that could be causing this issue?
1) Their guy blamed a tweezer-point-sized bit of corrosion on the surface next to the O-ring - but visually the O-ring looked to be in good shape.
2) No problems with any of the propane systems in the coach - tested the stove, fridge, water heater, and furnace: all full steam ahead, performing as expected.

Thanks,
James
James
w/ DW Erin, sons Gideon and Tobias, cats Oscar & Oliver
Fulltime 1999 U270 34' #5508

Re: Propane Refill Trouble

Reply #1 –
Tank vent open?
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Propane Refill Trouble

Reply #2 –
Relief valve was fully open, and supply line to coach was fully closed.  Sorry, this is my first run at propane tanks, so is that what you were asking?
James
w/ DW Erin, sons Gideon and Tobias, cats Oscar & Oliver
Fulltime 1999 U270 34' #5508

Re: Propane Refill Trouble

Reply #3 –
The freezing temps can make things behave strangely. The audible click you are hearing is likely the over full protection valve located in side the tank. It keeps the tank  from being overfilled, the reason it only fills to 70/80%. The bleed valve you are opening is The tank is full when you see liquid., it doesn't release enough pressure to make a difference. I went to fill mine a while back at a conviance store thier pump would not pump enough pressure to fill the tank. Took it to a different location that happened to be a commercial propane shop no problem. I think the gas suppliers use lower volume/pressure pumps for the retail store outlets. You might try a different location.
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 1260 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: Propane Refill Trouble

Reply #4 –
Quote from: bbeane –
You might try a different location.

That rings true with some of my suspicions.  I'll give it another go on Saturday, and then make another pit stop on the way back if I have similar issues.  Thanks.
James
w/ DW Erin, sons Gideon and Tobias, cats Oscar & Oliver
Fulltime 1999 U270 34' #5508

Re: Propane Refill Trouble

Reply #5 –
Your experience is common when using retail stores, gas stations etc to fill our big RV tanks.  Safety is so important and it is preferred to use propane dealers.

I don't know if you have a propane dealer in your area, but we NEVER use any place else.  Filling these tanks improperly can cause catastrophic conditions and if there is mechanical problem that we are not aware of, we need the eye of the experienced. 

Between you being new and inexperienced and the filler doing this as a side-line sale with little experience, stand back. 

The tank on our coach is 60 gallons, way larger than needed for our coach and a lot of flammable propane.  We have had dealer find leaks that need repair.  We have had a sticking check valve, leaking spit valve and a leaking shutoff valve. 

Re: Propane Refill Trouble

Reply #6 –
Our tank is only 50 gallon capacity, but is designed so only 44 gallons can be put in the tank before the overfull indicator starts letting out vapor/liquid.
I did replace the fill connection, the shutoff valve, and the overfill valve. Wasn't that expensive but I was trying to find a leak. I eventually found the leak (secondary regulator) but am happy with critical parts that are not 27 years old.
Extremely cold temps can cause issues with propane equipment, mainly because of the cold affecting expansion of the propane from liquid to vapor (or so I was told) and I believe it from our own experience.
The "little" propane distributors mainly handle the small upright tanks so your horizontal tank a problem for them? Unlikely but wirth trying a larger distribution center. Try asking a local RV dealer for their source.
Nitehawk,  Demolition Lady, & our NEW master, Zippy the speeding BB cat.
1989 Grand Villa 36' ORED
Oshkosh chassis, 8.2 DD V8
2006 Saturn Vue AWD

Re: Propane Refill Trouble

Reply #7 –
All coach propane tanks have a "automatic" shut-off, but the techs still loosen the bleeder, just in case. I've never had a problem with either on three coaches, freezing temps included. A problem I have had, is a leaking main shut-off valve, made me very unpopular at the Park. In order to replace the valve, the whole tank must be drained, and RV repair techs will not drain them because of Fire Dept. regs. So, you've got to take the coach out into the boonies, open the bleeder, and drain it. No smoking, by the way! Even when you think the tank is drained, there is pressure in there, and can be a surprise for a tech! A lot of RV outlets have propane, as well as RV Parks, & gas stations that deal with large coaches. A main shutoff valve can also leak back into the coach while being filled, so shutting off everything is mandatory! We had one here a few years ago that could have killed and blown-up half the town: thru a mis-communication, the owner of the Super B did not shut her fridge down and the propane crawled through the shut-off valve and torched the coach, big time. Total loss, and thanks to the wind, it blew the flames AWAY from the huge filling tank. This is one reason a lot of owners go to all-electic, scary stuff, if no one is paying attention!
1993 U-240 "La Villa Grande"..CAT 3116 w/ Pacbrake PRXB...Allison 3060 6-speed..
Previous: 1983 Airstream 310 turbo diesel, 1979 Airstream 280 turbo diesel
                                      Build # 4297
                                      PNW natives
                      Home base:  'Cactus Hug' (Ajo, Arizona)
                        DW Judy & Chet the wonder dog
                        Full-Timers 'Sailing the asphalt sea'

Re: Propane Refill Trouble

Reply #8 –
Propane expands 540times liquid to gas 50gal being at 68degrees make 2700gals of vapor; takes 16 to 1 mixture of vapor and air along with  ignition source and one has 2700lb bomb. Not a good thing. Be safe and remember you are dealing with a serious explosion if one screws up.
John
1998 U270 34'

Re: Propane Refill Trouble

Reply #9 –

You dont open the Bleeder to "make room" - that is simply a visual check of the propane level. Until you see liquid shoot out, your tank is not full. You dont need to make room for the propane, the punp forces liquid in and the gas in the tank will not stop this from occuring.

The click you here is your tanks OPD - overfill prevention device. You can "cheat" a little by purposely tilting your RV with the leveling system ao the fill side of the tank is high. Youll be able to get a few extra gallons in, especially if the parking lot by the fill station is off level in the wrong direction and hindering you from getting the tank to the designed fill level.

The most likely cause of the propane not filling is tye source tank being too empty for liquid propabe withdraw. The pump needs liquid propane to function, and their gauge could be wrong or the pickup higher in the tank. But most likely, they need a fill. One other possibility is the meter just sticks. Ive seen them stick, and gas keeps flowing. In this situation, youll get free propane. So listen for the flow of propane entering the tank and make sure it actually stopped pumping and didnt just stop counting!

I filled propane for years during highschool at the local RV dealer. Its not rocket science, but i was amazed when I encountered a tractor supply enployee fresh out of his propane certification class who had no idea how to fill my forklift tanks. (Identical fill port to a rv tank).  up in Buffalo, NY the gas station I stopped at to get propane only had one clerk and was busy and he let me fill my tank myself. Nice not having to sub the job out to someone else.
95 U300SE

Re: Propane Refill Trouble

Reply #10 –
Quote from: John/Pat –
Propane expands 540times liquid to gas 50gal being at 68degrees make 2700gals of vapor; takes 16 to 1 mixture of vapor and air along with  ignition source and one has 2700lb bomb. Not a good thing. Be safe and remember you are dealing with a serious explosion if one screws up.
Gasoline has 114,000 BTU per gallon, diesel has 129,500 BTU per gallon, propane has 91,500 BTU per gallon.

Propane is not inherently more dangerous, we drive around with full gas and diesel tanks all the time.

Yes, need to be careful with any fuel...
Peter and Tammy Fleming
1991 U300 GV 40 - Sold, owned for 4 years
Downsized to Roadtrek Popular 210 class B

Re: Propane Refill Trouble

Reply #11 –
I have my FT tank filled at the same time as my house, by the same truck.  He opens up the vent and stops pumping when liquid spews out of the vent.  Right or wrong I don't know or care.  Tank is always full when he's done. 
Mike and Mari
'98  36 270 WTFE
Build #5272
Club #17504

Re: Propane Refill Trouble

Reply #12 –
Drop the driver's side with the HWH and the tank will take more propane before the liquid comes out of the vent.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Propane Refill Trouble

Reply #13 –
Don't vent you propane tank to atmosphere no matter where you are.  Take your coach to a propane dealer who can scavenge your tank properly.
Regards,
Brett

'99 42' Foretravel Xtreme
'14 Brown Motorsports Stacker
'05 Chevy SSR
'02 BMW R1150R
 

Re: Propane Refill Trouble

Reply #14 –
I think you are just getting the wrong person to service you. Need to take a trip and visit this expert.

1998 U270 34'