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Topic: transmission oil (Read 6456 times) previous topic - next topic

transmission oil

I have a grandvilla - 1990. I need to purchase transmission fluid. What kind do I put in?

The manual says Dexron, Dexron II, or C3.  Will any or all three of these work?

I found a Supertech Automatic transmission fluid  MERCON V

Will that work?

Thanks, Susan

Re: transmission oil

Reply #1 –
Dexron 3 or C4 as shown in this Wanderlodge site
MT 643 SPECS
JohnH

Re: transmission oil

Reply #3 –
For my transmission Allison recommended Transynd and I changed the oil last spring and noticed a great improvement. It came with Dexron 3 and around 98 Allison recommended a synthetic oil. Transynd is the oil I used and I got it from an Allison dealer

Re: transmission oil

Reply #4 –
You'll need an Allison approved TES-295 fluid.  You'll find a list of approved products at On-Highway Fluids.

DEXRON, DEXRON-II, DEXRON-IIE, DEXRON-III, DEXRON-IIIH, Allison C3 and Allison C4 are all now obsolete.  I wrote the TES-295 specification when I was the Transmission Fluids Engineer at Allison from 1990 - 2009.    It will do a great job in your Allison MT643 transmission.

PS:    Allison TES-295 fluids are all synthetic based fluids.  They are extremely resistant to viscosity loss or oxidation.

Re: transmission oil

Reply #5 –
I once heard if you switch to synthetic, that Allison re-rates the transmission for an additional 50 hp. Any truth to that? Any % reductions in drivetrain losses? Increased service intervals?

Re: transmission oil

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Old phart phred –
I once heard if you switch to synthetic, that Allison re-rates the transmission for an additional 50 hp. Any truth to that? Any % reductions in drivetrain losses? Increased service intervals?

No truth whatsoever in the 50hp re-ratings.    Definitely increased service intervals.    You can run TES-295 fluids (like Castrol TranSynd) many more miles than you could with older DEXRON or C3/C4 products.    The oxidation resistance and viscosity stability of TES-295 fluids is remarkable.   

I do oil analysis now after retiring from Allison.    Fluid/oil analysis is the best way to keep an eye on engine oils and transmission fluids and properly assess the true condition and remaining life of the fluids/oils.  It also lets you see what's going on inside engines/transmissions as it measures wear and contaminants.    I'm not selling here.  I'm just saying that it's a science that's there if anyone's interested.  There are many others that test oils too.    Here's a paper I wrote that might interest you all:  http://www.jglubricantservices.com/docs/rv_technical_sheet.pdf

Re: transmission oil

Reply #7 –
Question:  I have heard consumers should never mix synthetic TranSynd with regular DEXRON without a complete drain, then complete refill with new filters.  True?

Quote from: hzjcm8 –



No truth whatsoever in the 50hp re-ratings.    Definitely increased service intervals.    You can run TES-295 fluids (like Castrol

TranSynd) many more miles than you could with older DEXRON or C3/C4 products.    The oxidation resistance and viscosity stability of TES-295 fluids is remarkable.   

I do oil analysis now after retiring from Allison.    Fluid/oil analysis is the best way to keep an eye on engine oils and transmission fluids and properly assess the true condition and remaining life of the fluids/oils.  It also lets you see what's going on inside engines/transmissions as it measures wear and contaminants.    I'm not selling here.  I'm just saying that it's a science that's there if anyone's interested.  There are many others that test oils too.    Here's a paper I wrote that might interest you all:  http://www.jglubricantservices.com/docs/rv_technical_sheet.pdf

Re: transmission oil

Reply #8 –
To answer your question Susan, yes but as others have said you will have to drain out the old and after filling with synthetic you will need to do another drain around 5k miles later to get a high enough concentration of the new oil to make it close enough to being total syn'. Filters need to be changed of course at that time again.
Now a few years ago I had a discussion with Mr Johnson on my change to Amsoil syn' which meets the TES 295 guidelines but he suggested I not use it as Allison ( TJ)  had not tested it and it would not pass their tests so they would not give it the accreditation and told me NOT to use it. Well here we are years later and my trans' is still in one piece and I may say running great after 25000 miles and counting. Not one issue with it and I change filters at the right time and keep adding Amsoil at those changes. I have a full 100% warranty from Amsoil should it cause any problems.
I have done as he suggests and like others too had sampling done all showing that all is well inside, in fact excellent.
Too expensive a tranny to mess with so I went with the best.
JohnH

Re: transmission oil

Reply #9 –
Glad to have you on board, when it comes to transmissions I belived to have known the shafts ability to transfer force is torque limited. You can probably explain this much better than I, as hp is a rpm derivative. Back to the drivetrain losses sythectic oils are supposed to be supperior all around performance or just up to a certain temperature?

Re: transmission oil

Reply #10 –
Old phart, Tom has been a member for many years and to answer your syn' question I use it in all places on coach including rear axle. I have found it to make a difference in temperatures by reducing them and the inside of my car engine is so much cleaner now, so guess the Cummins will be too. It is now 7 yrs on synthetic and is running great, would not go back to fossil type.
JohnH

Re: transmission oil

Reply #11 –
Quote from: John Haygarth –
To answer your question Susan, yes but as others have said you will have to drain out the old and after filling with synthetic you will need to do another drain around 5k miles later to get a high enough concentration of the new oil to make it close enough to being total syn'. Filters need to be changed of course at that time again.
Now a few years ago I had a discussion with Mr Johnson on my change to Amsoil syn' which meets the TES 295 guidelines but he suggested I not use it as Allison ( TJ)  had not tested it and it would not pass their tests so they would not give it the accreditation and told me NOT to use it. Well here we are years later and my trans' is still in one piece and I may say running great after 25000 miles and counting. Not one issue with it and I change filters at the right time and keep adding Amsoil at those changes. I have a full 100% warranty from Amsoil should it cause any problems.
I have done as he suggests and like others too had sampling done all showing that all is well inside, in fact excellent.
Too expensive a tranny to mess with so I went with the best.
JohnH
John maybe you should devulge that you are selling amsoil. Not so much about a question about their qaulity of their products, just a vested interest. As stated amsoil meets the TES295 standards as does some other brands. I sell nothing, and as an engineer I just am hired to serve the customers best interests period. Not very lucrative.

Re: transmission oil

Reply #12 –
If nobody on the forum knows/knew John is "selling Amsoil" then it is not a vested interest,I too am a Amsoil dealer and as
many dealers do became a dealer to get the oil the cheapest way possible not to sell oil.I have changed to the Amsoil trans
fluid and when researching it found that chemically it is the same as transynd.
Think for a minute, if anyone has a "vested interest" in selling it is Allison selling their product,Ford selling Motorcraft,Dodge
selling mopar and so on.How many of us use Motorcraft oil in our Fords?

Re: transmission oil

Reply #13 –
Quote from: AC7880 –
Question:  I have heard consumers should never mix synthetic TranSynd with regular DEXRON without a complete drain, then complete refill with new filters.  True?

Not true. DEXRON-III and TranSynd (a true synthetic) are mixable at any ratio.    The problem comes when you have a very old DEXRON-III fluid that has greatly reduced viscosity.    DEXRON-III fluids always thin out over time and that will cause the mixture to be thinner than normal.    You'll only know this through fluid analysis.  When going from an old DEXRON-III fluid, depending on the condition of the older fluid, it's best to check the fluid first (get it analyzed).    In most cases, the viscosity will probably be low.    But, surprise .... if you don't know what's in the transmission, it could be TranSynd.    Whatever the case, if the analysis shows it needs to be changed due to excessive viscosity loss, then it's always best, in my opinion, to do a double drain and refill.  It's best to do the double drain and refill back to back and change the "Control Main" spin on filter (1000/2000) or lube and main filters (3000/4000) during the first change.   

Below is a method I recommend to everyone.

Remove transmission drain plug, drain old fluid and reinstall drain plug.

Allison 1000/2000 Series - Remove old spin on ("Control Main") filter and install new genuine Allison spin on filter.  Note:  Do not remove pan filter.    Pan filter is only changed at transmission overhaul.

Allison 3000/4000 Series - Remove old Main and Lube filters (bottom of transmission) and install new genuine Allison "High Capacity" filters. 

Note:  Allison filters are available from your nearest Allison dealer/distributor.  Find your nearest Allison  dealer/distributor at Sales + Service Locator.

Install TES-295 approved fluid (Castrol TranSynd or similar).  Note:  A complete list of TES-295 approved fluids is located at:  On-Highway Fluids.

Set fluid level on dipstick to "Cold" band (with transmission in park, engine at idle and vehicle parked on flat surface).

Drive vehicle for ½ hour.  Note:  This will circulate the fluid through the filters, controls, clutches, torque convertor and cooling system).

Drain fluid, reinstall the approved TES-295 fluid and recheck the fluid level (with transmission in park, engine at idle and vehicle parked on flat surface).    Should be in the "Cold" band on the dipstick.

Recheck fluid level at operating temperature.  Fluid level should be in "Hot" band at operating temperature.

Oil Analysis - After the fluid and filter changes are completed, resample the transmission fluid and send the sample for analysis (this will establish a new baseline).  Sample annually after that to ensure fluid does not get contaminated.


Re: transmission oil

Reply #14 –
Quote from: John Haygarth –
I have a full 100% warranty from Amsoil should it cause any problems.
JohnH

Hope it is better then Quaker State's 100% warranty.  Had a GM truck engine fail at 65k miles.  Did 2 different oil analysis. Filed claim with Quaker State. They sent my claim to an outside company. Had to send oil sample to them. They came back and said not problem with their oil. Would not give me any more information that that.  I then gave everything to Chevrolet.  Chevrolet covered the engine, don't know if they got Quaker State to pay them anything.
 

Re: transmission oil

Reply #15 –
Understand what your saying but how do you think the oil caused the engine problem?