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Topic: Battery / Charger/Inverter / Desulfanation Advice Requested (Read 614 times) previous topic - next topic

Battery / Charger/Inverter / Desulfanation Advice Requested

We bought a 1999 U320 a few years back and immediately replaced the house batteries.  Duplicated previous owners set of three 8D lead acid house batteries, and the chassis (engine) batteries are Red Top.

Xantrax charger/inverter was failing and a year and one week later, the house batteries "swelled" and needed replacement. (No warranty because failure was due to charger/inverter.)  Magnum Charger/Inverter replaced Xantrax and eight 6V Golf Cart batteries wired as four 12 volt for House batteries.

Had previously installed Trik-L Charger to maintain both sets of batteries.  We store - much more than we used unfortunately - in an enclosed storage plugged into shore power.  One charger (with dip switches set for lead acid) charging both lead acid house and AGM chassis did not seem like a good idea so I installed a cutout switch on chassis batteries.  I go to coach every three weeks, replace water in House batteries, and crank coach to use alternator to "top-off" chassis batteries.

Last year, even with reduced loads and running genset to charge before curfew, I could not prevent autostart from cranking coach about 2-3 AM - much to neighbor's complaints and my chagrin/apologies.  I did not know about DynaGene Autostart - thought autostart was through Xantrex (and subsequently Magnum) - and now, do not know if Magnum AGS is "fighting" DynaGene autostart - so will be trying to check that soon, BUT, batteries could also need desulfanation (?) since bulk of time is on trickle charge in storage(?).  Am considering where desulfinator would help extend usage time, before one or both  :-) of auto-starts crank genset.

Thoughts about the best way to check AND any suggestions as to best way to a) extend usage of house batteries, b) extend life of both house (lead acid) and chassis (AGM) when there is only one charger (Magnum) - presently set for lead acid cycles - would be greatly appreciated.  Leaving Monday for three day trip so may not be able to respond in interim but hopefully y'all can help resolve this issue.  Thanks in advance.
hugh n & judy taylor
and Gator - Australian Red Heeler
36 ft - 1999 U320 Build # 5536
Motorcader # 16907  Richland, WA 99352

Re: Battery / Charger/Inverter / and Desulfanation Advice Requested

Reply #1 –
In my opinion, you are over-complicating your battery maintenance routine.  It is not necessary, nor desirable, to "crank coach to use alternator to top-off chassis batteries".  Ideally, the coach engine should not be started unless you are going to drive the coach at highway speeds and fully heat up the oil and engine coolant.  Plus, it is a waste of fuel (money)!

Terminology:  A "lead acid" battery can be either a "wet cell" (flooded), or gel cell, or AGM.  I assume your golf cart batteries are the wet cell type.

Your coach is connected to shore power in storage.  Your Magnum inverter/charger, when properly programmed for your wet cell type golf cart house batteries, should maintain them properly.  If you believe they require periodic equalizing (best determined by checking cell specific gravity), that will have to be done by you manually, or by using a add-on automatic desulfator.  (search Forum for recommendations)

What Magnum model do you have?  We have a Magnum MS2812 inverter/charger and ME-RC50 remote display.  The MS2812 has a "Equalizing" (desulfurization) mode, but it can only be manually enabled from the remote display.  When you turn it on, it will run for 4 hours, then it shuts off automatically.  I do not use this function, because the manufacturer of my (house) AGM batteries does not recommend it.

The Magnum generator remote start function (AGS) is not part of the inverter/charger, but is a separate add-on module, and is controlled through the remote display.  Do you have the ME-AGS remote start module?  If not, then the "DynaGen" thingy must be providing your AGS function.  I know nothing about that - see your owner's manual for programming instructions.

What kind of battery charger were you using?  LSL Products does not (to my knowledge) make a stand-alone AC powered battery charger.  But they do make excellent battery maintenance products.  Either the Amp-L-Start or the Trik-L-Start module connected at the battery isolator will "steal" a little power from your house bank and will automatically take good care of the AGM start battery bank.

LSL Products / LSLProducts.com - Problem-Solving Gear & Gadgets
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Battery / Charger/Inverter / and Desulfanation Advice Requested

Reply #2 –
In addition to the knowledge source on this form I suggest you call/email Alan Ferber, owner, of Bay Marine supply in San Diego. [alan@baymarinesupply.com] Wicked helpful, he was even emailing me at 2AM with answers to my questions.  For sure he can offer you insight.  He is a member of this form, offers Foretravel owners a discount as well.  Honestly I have no affiliation with this guy.  He was just so helpful with my purchase I am just trying to give back. fyi - He mentioned that now is business is at least 50% RV related..
-Nick
1993 U300 40' Limited Edition
Build 4183

Re: Battery / Charger/Inverter / and Desulfanation Advice Requested

Reply #3 –
Gels are not lead acid.  Calcium as far as I know. Flooded cell,  vrla or gel vrla are the same basic battery.  Gels are different.

Sealed batteries can be damaged from desulfurization.  Yet lifeline batteries did not want to warranty a set of their AGM's because they had not been done.

Yet they are sealed.

He thought this was a unsolvable issue.

Long term battery care is a auto desulfurization device.

Both AGM's and flooded cells can be restored this way as far as I know.

My guru took mine off  my gels as he said their different chemistry was different and the auto would not work

"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Battery / Charger/Inverter / and Desulfanation Advice Requested

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Caflashbob –
Gels are not lead acid.  Calcium as far as I know. Flooded cell,  vrla or gel vrla are the same basic battery.  Gels are different.
That statement is confusing, at least to me.

So, "Gels are not lead acid", yet "Flooded cell (lead acid), VRLA (Valve Regulated Lead Acid) or gel VRLA are the same basic battery"?

I guess I don't understand the technical difference between a "gel" and a "gel vrla".

Here is a excerpt from the Wikipedia page:  VRLA battery - Wikipedia

"A modern gel battery (also known as a "gel cell") is a VRLA battery with a gelified electrolyte; the sulfuric acid is mixed with fumed silica, which makes the resulting mass gel-like and immobile. Unlike a flooded wet-cell lead-acid battery, these batteries do not need to be kept upright. Gel batteries reduce the electrolyte evaporation, spillage (and subsequent corrosion problems) common to the wet-cell battery, and boast greater resistance to shock and vibration. Chemically they are almost the same as wet (non-sealed) batteries except that the antimony in the lead plates is replaced by calcium, and gas recombination can take place."
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Battery / Charger/Inverter / Desulfanation Advice Requested

Reply #5 –
edit: gels do contain lead.  Different other structure

My comment had a comma in it.  Three types of batteries.  Gel, AGM's, flooded cell.

Flooded cell can be partially sealeD.  VRLA.  one way venting.

Same as AGM's.  They are also VRLA

Gels are not LA. 

calcium grid.  Recombines the liquid better.

Your inverter charger settings are the same for lead acid or AGM's.

Different setting for gels.

All the unicoaches came with house gels and AGM engine start batteries.  Engine start need high amp and are not normally cycled.

House batteries can be used to 50% SOC with out damage but with a decrease in cycle life.

Gels have a double cycle life over AGM's with a ten percent reduction in amp hours if the AGM is a lifeline brand.

225 vs 250.

At some future time the AGM's will have less amphours than the gels. From then on the AGM's will be less.

Possible that the latest east penn(MK) gels might have double the currrent cycle life that is on their charts.

Precharging of the grids and plates before installation to catch weak plates was the new feature and a new plate mounting method was the new extra life changes according to the MK engineer I spoke to a few years ago.

The info was on East Penns site a few years ago.

Discharged AGM and lead acid are more freezable

We used to have battery heater plates on flooded cell lead acid batteries in bluebirds to increase their amps in cold weather.



"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4
 

Re: Battery / Charger/Inverter / Desulfanation Advice Requested

Reply #6 –
Thanks to all.  Just logged on after working on trip preps/maintenance all day and leaving in a few hours, so do not have time to respond to all, but really appreciate the help and comments.  Will digest and utilize, and respond after I have had time.  Thanks, again.
hugh n & judy taylor
and Gator - Australian Red Heeler
36 ft - 1999 U320 Build # 5536
Motorcader # 16907  Richland, WA 99352