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Topic: Wiring Trik-L-Start (the lighter side) (Read 1186 times) previous topic - next topic

Wiring Trik-L-Start (the lighter side)

We have moved to the lighter side of the RV world for now - a Coachmen Leprechaun.
Lots of things the same, lots different. Right now I am looking at the electrical side and thought I might get some help from my friends ;) .

I want to install a Trick-L-Start (TLS) device to keep the engine battery charged while in stoage.
As with the FT, the house batteries are charged either by
1) Shore power
2) Generator
3) Alternator while engine is running.
I havn't tracked down a true transfer switch as yet but there is a converter.

Just the Facts...
The house battery box and an adjacent interconnect box are under the front steps.

In the bottom right corner (assuming the iOS  thing doesn't turn the picture upside down) of the interconnect compartment is what looks like a WHITE RODGERS  continuous duty solenoid.

With the ignition OFF
    • The small yellow wire connected to the solenoid  carries no current (0 volts)
    • One of the large posts (I forget whether top or bottom) shows ~14.?? (house bank voltage)
     
    •   The other post shows ~12.4?  (start battery voltage)

With the ignition ON:
    • The yellow wire shows 12v
    • Both large posts show the same house bank voltage

Observations and Questions...

The solenoid acts like what I think the Boost solenoid does on the FT.

It looks like I would just connect the TLS across the two large posts.
And, since activation appears to be the equivalent of continuous Boost, would it harm the TLS?

Am I correct?
thanks
Elliott & Mary Bray
ex. 1996 36' U295 - Build 4879
ex. 2018 Coachmen Leprechaun 319MB
 

Re: Wiring Trik-L-Start (the lighter side)

Reply #1 –
Not a expert, but your idea sounds correct to me.  When the Trik-L-Start sees a difference between the two battery posts (ignition switch off) it will go into "charge" mode.  When both posts show the same voltage (ignition switch on) the Trik-L-Start will do nothing (and be unharmed).    At least, that's how I think it would work...

The installation instructions (second page) even show a example hookup to a "boost" type solenoid.  This is essentially what you are proposing.  Just be sure you get the yellow (house) and blue (start) wires on the correct posts.

http://www.lslproducts.net/UTLS_Instructs.pdf
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Wiring Trik-L-Start (the lighter side)

Reply #2 –
Hi Elliott,  It looks like your Coachmen does not have a diode isolator, and in its place you have a solenoid isolator, which is better named a 'combiner' which prevents start battery from house load discharging when engine (ignition) is off. 

More than likely the engine alternator is connected directly to start battery.  And engine start uses voltages from both banks.  I wonder how it protects from a very low house battery (after dry camping) bringing down start battery voltage when combined, and thus affecting the quality of engine start.

Connect TLS with house battery wire to the higher voltage big post and start battery to the other big post.  When ignition is on, the TLS connections will have no effect.  TLS just flows from high voltage to low voltage, never shutting off, and only allowing current to flow in one direction, and when voltages are close or same, it does nothing.  This is just how diodes work and YES, the TLS will never be harmed when ignition is on.
 
Your Coachmen probably does not have an inverter/charger (like Magnum etc), and your converter supplies 12-volts to house loads when 120-volts are present, to prevent house battery from running down.  Converters will also charge a low house battery, but most converters are not known as good battery chargers as they are designed to supply a constant 12-volts for house loads, like water pump, lights and other 12-volt appliances.
 
After you determine how things work and if the current setup needs improvements, you could install a diode isolator to prevent combining a low house battery with start battery.  And then your current White Rogers solenoid could be a boost, manually switched instead of from ignition source, to a source that is not on ignition.
 
If when your shore power cable is stowed, the male end is plugged into a 30-amp female receptacle located in the bay, you do not have a transfer switch.  If you just store the shore cable with plug laying around, there is a transfer switch located somewhere.  With the female receptacle method, that outlet is wired to generator and the coach is just 'plugged into the generator' instead of a campground.

Re: Wiring Trik-L-Start (the lighter side)

Reply #3 –
Are you charging house batteries when stored off shore power or solar?
Tim Fiedler    2025 LTV Unity MBL on Order
2000 Chevy Tracker 2 Door Convertible 4WD Now lifted 4.5"
1985 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston
Murphy Rebel on wheels with 175HP Titan
Cessna P337
1980 48' Westport MY (!/4 Share)

Re: Wiring Trik-L-Start (the lighter side)

Reply #4 –
You could connect the TLS directly to battery at bolt terminal or battery posts.

You may want to rearrange battery cables and design a different hold-down so it will be much easier to check for battery water levels.

Re: Wiring Trik-L-Start (the lighter side)

Reply #5 –
I bought a Cole Hershey smart isolator, and I'm happy with it so far. It's bi-directional and always charges the chassis battery first and then switches to the house batteries, does not matter whether it's getting power from the alternator or the shore power. $100. No diodes.
Old Phart Phred, EIEIO
89 GV ored 36' #3405 300 hp cat 3208 ATAAC side radiator, mountain tamer exhaust brake

Re: Wiring Trik-L-Start (the lighter side)

Reply #6 –
Old phart phred, Did you take the diode isolator out of the system and replace it with this?  Is this what you used? http://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/commercial-vehicle/application-guides/littelfuse-if-161-48525-smart-battery-isolator.pdf 
97 U295 40, Build #5040, 6C8.3 325 HP
Oregon Continuous Traveler
Samsung Residential #RF20HFENBSR,
Xantrex SW2012, (3)AGM8D Hse, (2)AGM Grp24 Eng, Victron BMV-712, 1800w Solar 4 LG & 2 Sunpower
Extreme Full Body Pt w/hdlmps, new furn/floor, 4 down Lexus 2004 GX470 AWD curb weight 4,740 lbs
Prev: 1990 Barth, 10L 300 2 yrs; 91&92 Monaco Signature, 10 yrs, 10L C 300 &  6C8.3 300; 1997 ForeT 6C8.3 325 since May 2017.  Employed by Guaranty RV 14+ yrs.  Former VW New Car Dlr/Service Dlr, Sales Mgr, Rv Sales, and Service Adviser from 1968-2017
"Don't criticize what you can't understand" Bob Dylan

Re: Wiring Trik-L-Start (the lighter side)

Reply #7 –
The diode isolator in my coach was removed by PO, in it's place is a Battery Isolation Manager from Precision Circuits Inc.
It's microprocessor based, checks and keeps all batteries charged up, also a found the coach has a new alternator on it with a date code of 2012 49th month.  Alternator is connected to the same post as the Chassie bateries, I guess that means the Chassie batteries are getting the full output of the alternator at all times.

Is that a good thing?

Steve
"Rocket"  2001 3610 U320 IFS  #5907
Car crazy guy with too many toys to list here.

Re: Wiring Trik-L-Start (the lighter side)

Reply #8 –
Steve,

I looked at the poop sheet on the BIM module (link below).  The way I understand it, it might not make any real difference where the alternator is connected.  If either battery bank sees a charging current, then both battery banks should receive a charge.

That said, I think you would be better off having the alternator output cable connected directly to one of the start battery POS (+) posts.  That way, the start battery bank would receive the direct charge from the alternator while driving, and the coach battery bank would get charged indirectly through the BIM.

Conversely, when the coach is parked and AC power is available (shore or generator), then the coach battery bank would get the direct charge from your inverter/charger, and the start battery bank would get charged indirectly through the BIM.

I think that is the way I would connect the alternator.  Does that sound logical to you?  It's your coach!

http://www.precisioncircuitsinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/00-10041-2xx-Battery-Isolation-Manager-Rev7-1.pdf

PS:  If you have a remote sense (DUVAC) alternator, the remote sense wire must be connected to a point where it "sees" start battery voltage.  That is the only way to be sure that your start batteries get fully charged.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Wiring Trik-L-Start (the lighter side)

Reply #9 –
Seeing that the two cables are stacked on top of each other it is connected directly to the chassis batteries.

I guess I don't need the Trick-L-Start I bought....

Or the battery tender I had on the chassis batteries since early November.

Steve
"Rocket"  2001 3610 U320 IFS  #5907
Car crazy guy with too many toys to list here.

Re: Wiring Trik-L-Start (the lighter side)

Reply #10 –
Thank you Steve for your post.  If your unit is doing what you need done, I probably would not change anything.  That being said it should not be too hard with a volt meter to monitor that.  I see your unit (00-10021-000)) has been replaced by (00-10041-250).  The new unit appears to be more resistant to its environment.  There are several features I like about this device.  My system is working fine (factory diode isolator, I do have a new backup unit, as I've had these fail in the past.  Now I will be watching the reviews on this 00-10041-250 by Precision as it appears to accomplish my goals if it is reliable.  It is rated for 225 amps continuous, and would more than meet my needs.  http://www.precisioncircuitsinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/00-10041-2xx-Battery-Isolation-Manager-Rev7-1.pdf  Here is one an ex 777 tech put in his rv.  Here is a picture of the unit mounted in an rv done by an ex 777 tech.  I have been unable to find one for sale, please post, if you find a 00-10041-250 for sale.  My guess is that now they are trying to supply mfgs., which often happens with new products.
97 U295 40, Build #5040, 6C8.3 325 HP
Oregon Continuous Traveler
Samsung Residential #RF20HFENBSR,
Xantrex SW2012, (3)AGM8D Hse, (2)AGM Grp24 Eng, Victron BMV-712, 1800w Solar 4 LG & 2 Sunpower
Extreme Full Body Pt w/hdlmps, new furn/floor, 4 down Lexus 2004 GX470 AWD curb weight 4,740 lbs
Prev: 1990 Barth, 10L 300 2 yrs; 91&92 Monaco Signature, 10 yrs, 10L C 300 &  6C8.3 300; 1997 ForeT 6C8.3 325 since May 2017.  Employed by Guaranty RV 14+ yrs.  Former VW New Car Dlr/Service Dlr, Sales Mgr, Rv Sales, and Service Adviser from 1968-2017
"Don't criticize what you can't understand" Bob Dylan

Re: Wiring Trik-L-Start (the lighter side)

Reply #11 –
Grandson just wired mine. Had him install it under the steps and to the boost solenoid. He had asked me which batt which batery  bank was house/start and I misunderstood which one he was pointing to and if that was the start bank. He was pointing to the house bank and I indicated that was the start bank. Caught him before he finished and he switched the hook up. Brought me the leftover hardware in the bag and said lites on TlS indicated it was on and charging...

Jim
'92 Grand Villa 36' w/8.3Cummins mechanical
ORED
Build#4062
 

Re: Wiring Trik-L-Start (the lighter side)

Reply #12 –
Jack Lewis' earlier posted Littlefuse link does not normally replace the isolator, but it does replace boost & Start battery bank chargers like Trik L Start. 

My experimenting with voltage-based start battery chargers like the Littlefuse device, found that the 13.2 turn-on voltage is too high when the battery temps are warm, like in hot weather and the 120-volt charger (Magnum etc) lowers charge voltage closer to 13 volts, keeping the start battery from being charged. 

I always come back to diode based with Trik L Start being my favorite.