small hole in rear front airbag

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small hole in rear front airbag

June 06, 2018, 04:39:57 pm

Slight leak in rear front airbag...need to get to service center about 150 miles away...any suggestions on a sealant to use to travel...Would a tire plug work temporarily?

Re: small hole in rear front airbag

Reply #1 – June 06, 2018, 04:57:52 pm

According to one of our more experienced owners, yes, a plug might very well do the job. See posts linked below:

Waited TOO long! (Reply #2)

Tire pressure (Reply #52)

Airbag leak in right front 1998 U320 (Reply #4)

Re: small hole in rear front airbag

Reply #2 – June 06, 2018, 06:01:01 pm

Here is what I did. I lifted the coach enough to take pressure off airbag and then pushed in a tire plug with sealer on it. Then I waited a few minutes and all was fine.

With a small leak, I have even taken a few short camping trips without doing anything. If you can hear it leak, it needs a plug.

Pierce

Re: small hole in rear front airbag

Reply #3 – June 06, 2018, 06:07:21 pm

Another means of "lifting the coach"/taking weight off the air bags is to raise it and put in a safety stand between the beams just inboard of the air bag and then let the coach down. Have someone watching, so the other beam on that wheel position doesn't drop much further OR put safety stand inboard of both air bags and let the suspension all the way down.

Re: small hole in rear front airbag

Reply #4 – June 09, 2018, 03:15:16 am

Quote from: wolfe10 – June 06, 2018, 06:07:21 pm

Another means of "lifting the coach"/taking weight off the air bags is to raise it and put in a safety stand between the beams just inboard of the air bag and then let the coach down. Have someone watching, so the other beam on that wheel position doesn't drop much further OR put safety stand inboard of both air bags and let the suspension all the way down.

Brett can you drive it like that?
Also, when I tried to raise the coach the other day, the rear would not go all the way up, so I couldn't put the safety stand in place. How do you get it all the way up if the leak is to much? (assuming its a leak and not just poor technique?)
Bob

Re: small hole in rear front airbag

Reply #5 – June 09, 2018, 07:17:15 am

Quote from: bobfnbw – June 09, 2018, 03:15:16 am

1. Brett can you drive it like that?
2. How do you get it all the way up if the leak is to much?

1. The short answer is "Yes" slowly and only far enough to get to a safe place to replace the bad bag.
2. If the bag is ruptured or you can't overcome the air leaking out this is a pain but you can plug the air line to the bad bag, install an air over hydraulic bottle jack ( so you can be more out of the way) between the frame members to help lift that side while someone is pushing the raise button on the HWH pad. This is extremely dangerous and is a last resort if you are broke down (I can't stress this enough) as you can get squished if something goes bad wrong. Then this will give you the lift/clearence you need to install the safety stand.

Pamela & Mike

Re: small hole in rear front airbag

Reply #6 – June 09, 2018, 07:32:40 am

If you can fit a 5 ton hydraulic jack (depending on your axle weight) in between the upper and lower beams you can then jack it up enough to use a block.
My rear weight is 19280# so half that is 9640# so a 5 ton jack would work.
know a couple friends who used a block of wood on their Newells to slowly drive a short distance to safely get off the road when they busted an air bag.
Looks like Pam & Mike beat me to it but hopefully my post adds a bit to the discussion.

Re: small hole in rear front airbag

Reply #7 – June 09, 2018, 09:48:21 am

I agree. Driving, other than to get to a safe place with a safety stand/jack between the beams means you are moving with ZERO suspension on one of 4 places on each wheel position.

Re: small hole in rear front airbag

Reply #8 – June 09, 2018, 09:58:24 am

If you plug one line in the rear, our coach won't go high enough to drive. With a small leak, raise the coach all the way, put in your safety stands, let the air our and then put in the plug. Our safety stands are adjustable so will fit at almost any elevated height. Since the leaks usually face the tire, they are easy to plug in that position.

If you can't bring the coach up to normal height with an airbag leak, you don't need a plug, you need to install your spare airbag. A leak that you can plug will only see more frequent air compressor cycling, not constant filling with the compressor where it would be unsafe to drive normally. Remember, your air brakes depend on pressure in the operating range to operate normally.

Pierce

Re: small hole in rear front airbag

Reply #9 – June 09, 2018, 10:23:54 am

Here is a link to my airbag tools album on Google Photos. I have two air operated jacks and keep at least one on board. As you can see in the photos, it's less than five minutes to jack the coach up to a height where the air bag can be repaired or changed and put the safety stand tool in place.

The HF air jacks are inexpensive and make it a no brainer to change tires or airbags. You can even raise the jacks manually. On sale, they will only set you back about $60. Putting on the spare tire does not require much strength other than sliding it out of the compartment. I raise the coach so the tire I want to remove is still touching the ground slightly. After the lugs have been removed, the tire can be "sawed" back and forth until it clears the studs. All in about 30 seconds without any other tools or lifting it. You do have to keep it upright as once it falls over, it's heavy to get upright again.

U300 Air Bag Installation & Tools - Google Photos

Pierce

Re: small hole in rear front airbag

Reply #10 – June 10, 2018, 03:08:47 pm

We carry an emergency length of 4"x4" to put between the frame so we can drive without air bags. Have never used the wood, but have preventatively replaced all air bags.

Re: small hole in rear front airbag

Reply #11 – June 12, 2018, 12:25:21 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – June 09, 2018, 09:58:24 am

Our safety stands are adjustable so will fit at almost any elevated height.

Hi Pierce,
Do you have any pictures of your "safety stands"? On my next to do list is fabricating some steel tubing fixed length to block the frame. I'm intrigued by the possibility of an adjustable safety stand to assist blocking the frame. Is your "safety stand" an adjustable block for use between the H frame sections? I've never heard of such a thing so I'm very curious if/how you do this. It would give us lots of flexibility in blocking frame at different heights as needed. Especially if coach air can't raise enough to get a full size block in.

If it is safe to do so I would like to have an adjustable way to block the frame. At least two height settings. A high setting for maintenance clearance and a travel height setting for when we park for the winter. A dual purpose block when turned upright it is tall and when on its side it is at travel height, with tabs to keep block aligned inside frame before lowering coach onto it (Just thinking)

FYI: We had a blown bag which I suspect was due to PO storing coach on completely deflated bags for long periods of time. Our rupture occurred at very top of bag opposite of the tire. All bags have been replaced because of this. Now carry a spare.

Re: small hole in rear front airbag

Reply #12 – June 12, 2018, 08:46:33 am

Many of us refer to the steel tubing/box beams that go between the frame members inboard of the air bags SAFETY STANDS.

So, different people may mean different things by "safety stands".

Re: small hole in rear front airbag

Reply #13 – June 12, 2018, 10:51:51 am

Quote from: Mike J – June 12, 2018, 12:25:21 am

Hi Pierce,
Do you have any pictures of your "safety stands"? On my next to do list is fabricating some steel tubing fixed length to block the frame. I'm intrigued by the possibility of an adjustable safety stand to assist blocking the frame. Is your "safety stand" an adjustable block for use between the H frame sections? I've never heard of such a thing so I'm very curious if/how you do this. It would give us lots of flexibility in blocking frame at different heights as needed. Especially if coach air can't raise enough to get a full size block in.
If it is safe to do so I would like to have an adjustable way to block the frame. At least two height settings. A high setting for maintenance clearance and a travel height setting for when we park for the winter. A dual purpose block when turned upright it is tall and when on its side it is at travel height, with tabs to keep block aligned inside frame before lowering coach onto it (Just thinking)
FYI: We had a blown bag which I suspect was due to PO storing coach on completely deflated bags for long periods of time. Our rupture occurred at very top of bag opposite of the tire. All bags have been replaced because of this. Now carry a spare.

OK, to answer a couple of questions, you can't see in my photo but we have a small contractor's compressor on board. Since I like 110 psi all around for the tires, the engine compressor is too slow plus, with the air jacks, I don't like to have to start the engine. As you can see in the photos the air jack lifts the coach so it's very easy to get the bags in place and it does it in about 30 seconds. You should have a little "tool" to go between the top of the jack and the coach to make it super safe when lifting. That's the black steel item in the photos. The Vise-grip in the photos just holds it in place until the jack puts pressure on it and keeps it in the most secure and least stressful for the coach lifting location.

The photo of the air hose reel shows the air dryer also. I like to have dry air for the tires and my small compressor may add moisture so I just put a regulator with dryer in the circuit.

The two sort of gray items in the photos are the adjustable safety stands/devices. Since I have the air jack, I probably don't need to have an adjustable stand. A 2x3 piece of rectangular tubing would work nicely but nice to have a couple of "ears" on each end so it will fit over the frame and is easy and quick to put in position.

Yes, storing the coach with the airbags deflated puts a nasty fold in the bottom of the bag. That's where the rubber goes south first and while I'm not super sure, I think this may speed the aging process. If the coach is at gross weight during winter storage, the manufacturers recommend higher than normal tire pressures unless some weight is taken off the tires so I have to think, blocking up would add to the lifespan of the bags.

Here is the link to the photos again: U300 Air Bag Installation & Tools - Google Photos

Pierce

Re: small hole in rear front airbag

Reply #14 – June 12, 2018, 11:56:25 am

I do not understand the problem with storing the coach with the safety stands in place. The bags do not deflate, even if they lose air. When you go to remove them, fill the bags and remove the safety stands. That's what I did last Winter, and had no problems (except for the momentary panic when one of the rear bags took a long time to fill

).

BTW, I am thinking of building a safety stand rack out of 2" x 10" lumber; has anyone already done this?

Trent

Re: small hole in rear front airbag

Reply #15 – June 12, 2018, 02:00:54 pm

Quote from: TulsaTrent – June 12, 2018, 11:56:25 am

BTW, I am thinking of building a safety stand rack out of 2" x 10" lumber; has anyone already done this?

How about 4x10"?

Pierce

Re: small hole in rear front airbag

Reply #16 – June 12, 2018, 03:13:19 pm

My thinking is to use a pair of 2 x 10's, or one 2 x 10 and one 2 x 12 with a spacer separating them so I have eight slots for my 12" Foretravel safety stands (the shiny black, powder coated ones from HF with the round chrome knob near one end),

In my mind, it might have a bottom (not really necessary), and 2" spacers (maybe old PVC, or old ball point pen bodies -- knew they would come in handy; maybe even old TP roll tubes). I thought of putting a handle on it, but carrying eight of those suckers around the coach would not be fun.

Anybody want design assistance credit before I start production?

Trent

Re: small hole in rear front airbag

Reply #17 – June 19, 2018, 07:40:25 pm

Quote from: TulsaTrent – June 12, 2018, 11:56:25 am

I do not understand the problem with storing the coach with the safety stands in place. The bags do not deflate, even if they lose air. When you go to remove them, fill the bags and remove the safety stands. That's what I did last Winter,

I may have explained my intentions poorly. By deflated I meant to say the bags are collapsed as flat as they will go as if all the air has been dumped from the system and the coach has lowered as far as it can go. I think having a travel height stand would maintain the air bags at their optimum operating height when not pressurized. During storage I'm looking to avoid subjecting the air bags to extremes at both ends of their range of motion. Of course these "travel height" stands would be too short to get much maintenance work done under the coach. Need a separate set for that.

Another question: To avoid any twisting of the coach when it is on any stands or even just completely lowered, I assume the best practice is make sure the parking site is level. Anyone know the tolerances FT recommends on this?

Re: small hole in rear front airbag

Reply #18 – June 19, 2018, 07:50:31 pm

Quote from: Mike J – June 19, 2018, 07:40:25 pm

I may have explained my intentions poorly. By deflated I meant to say the bags are collapsed as flat as they will go as if all the air has been dumped from the system and the coach has lowered as far as it can go. I think having a travel height stand would maintain the air bags at their optimum operating height when not pressurized. During storage I'm looking to avoid subjecting the air bags to extremes at both ends of their range of motion. Of course these "travel height" stands would be too short to get much maintenance work done under the coach. Need a separate set for that.
Another question: To avoid any twisting of the coach when it is on any stands or even just completely lowered, I assume the best practice is make sure the parking site is level. Anyone know the tolerances FT recommends on this?

Yes, safety stands would keep the bottom of the bags from being flattened. Also, not a bad idea to take a little weight off the tires by using jack stands. No need to raise tires off the ground, just some weight off tires. Never a bad idea to have the coach level when in storage.

Pierce

Re: small hole in rear front airbag

Reply #19 – June 19, 2018, 09:01:47 pm

Quote from: TulsaTrent – June 12, 2018, 03:13:19 pm

Anybody want design assistance credit before I start production?

Trent,
Is what you're wanting to make to store and tote your 8 safety stands?

I scattered my stands about the compartments in groups of two for even weight distribution. Two of them (on each side) will lay alongside the fuel tank in the forward compartment and the remaining four are in the two aft compartments on both driver and passenger sides (two in each). They're close to points of use when retrieving them and I cut pieces of rubber to lay them on so they don't slide around.

Re: small hole in rear front airbag

Reply #20 – June 19, 2018, 09:34:52 pm

T-Man,

Yes, kinda, sorta: Right now, I keep them in a wine box, but it will only hold six of them. When I go to use them, I take two to each wheel location. Afterwards, back into the box, which is not happy with all the weight.

I started thinking about a better storage capability and thought of the 2" by lumber. I could make one rack out of a 2" x 10" and a 2" x 12", mounted with spacers so they don't bang together while moving. They would be contained in one place, about 5" wide, and 20" long. I thought of a carrying handle, but didn't like the idea.

Basically a place to store them so they are always there when I need them. If necessary, I could mount that "box" on a drawer slide on the floor to access them without having to move anything around.

So many possibilities for a procrastinating engineer to consider,

Trent

Re: small hole in rear front airbag

Reply #21 – June 20, 2018, 07:04:26 am

Pix when completed please.

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