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Topic: Foretravel vs MCI Bus (Read 974 times) previous topic - next topic

Foretravel vs MCI Bus

How maintainable is a late 1990's Foretravel Unicoach versus a mid-1980's MCI bus?

I tried to sell a friend on Foretravel, but he bought a mid-1980's MCI bus with a mid-90's RV conversion for about $20K. Many of the RV system were about 25 years old. He is going to transport animals for his non-profit called:

Flying Fur Animal Rescue -

I know "it's all in the maintenance", but what about parts availability and mechanic knowledge of the 1980's buses? My friend claimed that parts are readily available, but I would think that our more recent Cummins / CAT engines are better supported.
1997 U270 34FT Build 5140 Cummins 8.3 Allison 3060R
Solar 1920Watts, 14KWH lithium. Orion BMS.

Re: Foretravel vs MCI Bus

Reply #1 –
I would think that as each MCI conversion is custom. At least I think they are custom ordered.  It would make it harder to work on or have worked done. Whereas Foretravels are built on just several layouts. As well as the more standard engine types we have.
Jerry & Nona and Kimeru the cat that thinks she's a dog
1998 36' WTFE U320  #5314 Motorcade #17711
USAF 1975-1995
2019 Subaru Crosstrek 'toad'
2003 Subaru Legacy touring car
jerry Fincher | Flickr

Re: Foretravel vs MCI Bus

Reply #2 –
I owned a Eagle bus for 7 years and met a few mci owners. They seemed happy with there rides, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Mci is a good bus but like anything not taken care of can be problematic.
Andy & Eileen
MONTROSE COLORADO
1992 U300  40' 6V92 TA
2016 4 Runner
1998 Jeep Grand cherokee

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee) Build # 4135 Skp# 122921

Re: Foretravel vs MCI Bus

Reply #3 –
Lots of MCI coaches in service today. It will have a (MTU) Detroit 2 cycle or 4 cycle 60 series engines. The air bags were further inboard so the coaches leaned a lot in turns. Since Detroit Diesel is owned by Mercedes/MTU, parts will never be a problem. It's a multi million mile coach and very well built. Not as nice looking as a Prevost or Eagle but still a good coach.

The late great Dave Metzler had a 12V-71 in his MCI. Nice article at the MTU 2-cycle web site about his coach. He said it could spin the Alcoa wheels on the tires. Detroit/MTU has been making the 2 cycle since 1938 with about 3.5 million produced. Still almost a million still online. Besides supplying parts, they still make new 6V-92TA engines for the military, mining/oil fields and lots of other countries. The 60 series was discontinued but evolved into the DD13, DD15 and DD16. Detroit and Scania are considered the best of the premium engines made today. A Detroit used in a Mercedes will have a OM number instead of a DD number.

Detroit Diesel 2-Cycle: MTU Online

Foretravel should have used a commercial chassis and we all would not have the problems we have today.

Pierce

Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Foretravel vs MCI Bus

Reply #4 –
I looked at a MCI that the PO had purchased in New York. It had been a city bus and there was no pac brake/Jake brake or retarder.
It was a DIY conversion and I was not impressed.  Even if it had been a pristine coach, without added braking  system I would not have taken it.  I had already lost brakes on last coach,  fortunately it was at the bottom of mountain.  other than almost having to clean seat all turned out well.  Just made me realize how important additional braking  systems are!
Chris
1999 U 320 DGFE
Build Number 5523
Chris & Elka Lang
In the field, Lonoke AR

Re: Foretravel vs MCI Bus

Reply #5 –
Tim, I'm full-timing in a 1993 Foretravel. A couple of years ago I had an in-frame overhaul because a 23-year-old o-ring failed. Yes, my DD 6V92TA is (was) old, but what about one that is ten years older? The tech that did the overhaul on my engine isn't there anymore. I don't know if he retired or went somewhere else. I do know that the number of people who are willing and able to work on the old two-cycle engines is decreasing daily.

Looking down the road, I wonder if the same thing will happen with Cat-engined coaches and trucks. Cummins seems to be the only one left now. What happens in 20 years?

As for the refrigerator, generator, air conditioner, sofa, etc. all I can say is that stuff eventually wears out and needs to be replaced. The older the conversion (or initial build) the more likely it is that something will need to be replaced soon - if it hasn't been done already. I suppose that an older coach, like the mid-80's one you mention, may have had everything replaced recently. The price will be somewhat higher than one that needs things replaced, but not by the cost of the replacements. (Ask me how I know.) You could get a bargain or you could get something that you couldn't afford even if it was free. That's true of anything mechanical, though.

Re: Foretravel vs MCI Bus

Reply #6 –
David,

Don't think 23 years old has much to do with your O ring failure. Easy for the poorly setup hydraulic system to lose the belt and overheat. Many times occurrences like this don't show up until years later. One U300 lost a belt entering a tunnel. He used the override button many times before he cleared the tunnel. The block was warped and could not be rebuilt. According to your shop, any diesel with wet liners (Cummins/Detroit) with their O rings is a time bomb waiting to go off. That's just not true.

As far as CATs or Detroits not being able to be worked on in the future, engines are just not that difficult to overhaul for even a DIYer. Lots of YouTube videos on how to do each step. A 6V-92TA like we have can be done at home with ordinary tools, Even the liners are easily pushed out with a simple home made tool and a socket to turn the crank over. No milling machine necessary to deck the block, etc. CATs and Detroits are some of the favorite marine engines and there are many shops that can overhaul the engines with many thousands in service today.

So many mechanics will tell you parts are hard to get, they need special tool and training, etc, etc. The reality is that few shops want to work on a RV with the engine stuck way back inside. Foretravel never made the rear bumper or frame members removable on the coaches so you either have to be resourceful to bring the engine out the back or have a lift to raise the coach way up.

I remember a Setra tour bus in San Francisco with a big flat air cooled diesel with a modular design. The engine could be disconnected in ten minutes, the coach dropped down with the engine resting on a rolling platform, raised again with the coach air system and the engine rolled out the back and a replacement installed, all in twenty minutes. The cooling fan stayed in place so that was not even a factor. A marvel to look at. The rear wheels even steered to get out of parking spots.

As far as the mystery as to the complicated "rack" to set up on a Detroit 2-cycle, ALL Foretravels with the 2-cycle 6V-92TA are electronic and HAVE NO RACK to adjust. The ECU does it all. OK, once more, no Foretravel with a 2-cycle Detroit has a rack to run!

Having been in the mechanical end of things since I was a kid, I have learned never to believe too much of what any mechanic or shop has to say. Many operate on "wives' tales" passed down for many years. If I had believed the majority of doctors who call themselves specialists, I would be in a wheelchair or worse. Yes, it takes a lot of work to wade through all the stories out there but if you don't, prepare to open you wallet big time (or sit in a wheelchair).

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Foretravel vs MCI Bus

Reply #7 –
My opinion is that living in a metal box with sprayed in foam insulation that normally used formaldehyde in it has several drawbacks,  insulation level.  Damage from hail to the aluminum roof and the vapors.  The round roof lines lose interior storage capacity. 

Painted metal is hot in the sun and the metal is cold in the winter.  Requires gen on.

The Foretravel basic design long ago was whilte gel coat.  No paint.  No sprayed in foam.  Low emissions wall panels and carpeting.

Just saying
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4
 

Re: Foretravel vs MCI Bus

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Chris m lang –
I looked at a MCI that the PO had purchased in New York. It had been a city bus and there was no pac brake/Jake brake or retarder.
It was a DIY conversion and I was not impressed.  Even if it had been a pristine coach, without added braking  system I would not have taken it.  I had already lost brakes on last coach,  fortunately it was at the bottom of mountain.  other than almost having to clean seat all turned out well.  Just made me realize how important additional braking  systems are!
Chris
While a Jake or retarder is a welcome addition to a coach, many trucks, buses and RVs have been driven safely without them for many millions of miles. My ex-Greyhound was an example. I just took it easy on the downgrades and never had a problem even though we live in the Sierras.

Many RV operators don't have the training necessary to use the existing service brakes properly and may find that the supplemental systems will mask service brake faults. By the same token, misuse of a retarder can result in rear end skidding in the wet or snow.

A heavy coach with a small displacement diesel has much less engine braking compared to a M11 for instance. Big displacement diesels make for much easier engine braking for the coach. I can imagine a 10 liter CAT in a light coach must have excellent engine braking.

Learn all the ins and outs of the air brakes the coach has and how to check it's condition. Then use that knowledge combined with a supplemental system to get the safest possible operation when driving in the mountains or other marginal conditions. The proper gear selection and speed in the Allison will also determine how safe any decent is.

Pierce

Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)