M11 fuel line questions

Topic: M11 fuel line questions (Read 1759 times) previous topic - next topic

M11 fuel line questions

March 22, 2019, 08:20:52 pm

Went to the coach tonight to bring it home. Put the batteries in, cranked for about 20 seconds, fired up and ran for 15-20 seconds and died. Cranked several more times for a couple of minutes at at time. Finally sounded like the batteries were getting tired so pulled the batteries and brought home to charge. Batteries showed 12.5 start battery/ 12.6 and 12.7 on house batteries.

With this being the first time to start since storage, I'm thinking that the fuel lines have air. Kinda expected it. After searching the forum, ones have spoken of a manual or electric fuel pump, priming button w/shraeder valve for bleeding, and possible o rings or fuel filter gasket leaks. I've not dealt with the fuel system to date, so where would I find the priming button/shraeder valve? I think that my main filter/water separator is in the battery bay from what I've seen on the search with a secondary filter passenger side attached to the engine. Correct??

Any suggestions on getting the fuel up to the engine without wearing out the new starter. I'm planning on going back tomorrow afternoon to see if I can confirm the filters and locations.

thanks in advance,
Larry

Re: M11 fuel line questions

Reply #1 – March 22, 2019, 08:35:09 pm

That fuel/water separator/filter near the bateries could be the culprit. If it's still in the original configuration the clear bowl with the visible metal screen inside could be leaking enough air to keep the fuel from reaching the engine. You might try removing the clear bowl and applying some silicone grease on the o-ring and reassembling. There should be some threads here on replacing the assembly with an improved system.

Re: M11 fuel line questions

Reply #2 – March 22, 2019, 08:41:55 pm

I'll look for that for sure David. I don't know if it is original or not, part of what I hope to discover tomorrow. I'm bringing it home so that I can have the fuel lines replaced. The generator line has a leak somewhere bad enough that it won't run. Hoping the engine isn't the same. Had planned on doing this myself this winter, but the winter was too severe, my work to many hours and had knee surgery 3 weeks ago. Planning on taking it to TransWest when I can get it started and running properly.

Keep the comments coming, several questions still unanswered.

Thanks,
Larry

Re: M11 fuel line questions

Reply #3 – March 22, 2019, 09:10:59 pm

How cold was it when you had the issue? Before I upgraded I tended to have problems in the 40s.

Re: M11 fuel line questions

Reply #4 – March 22, 2019, 09:30:57 pm

When you open the rear hatch you should see a controller for the fuel filter. With the key on push the prime button. The pump on the filter should be running and on the filter is a cap like a tire remove it and use the tip to push the shrader valve.

Re: M11 fuel line questions

Reply #5 – March 23, 2019, 04:55:44 am

When you push the prime button the prime pump will run for a number of seconds. I suggest that you go through this process more than once. That is, let it run and time out several times. Once you have done this, the engine should start without issue.

Re: M11 fuel line questions

Reply #6 – March 23, 2019, 07:45:42 am

David, yesterday was very nice, in the low 60's.

Ron & Kemajohn, I will try to find what you refer to this afternoon hopefully. Last nights rain has slowed and now it is calling for rain showers throughout the afternoon. We can't catch a break on the weekends here. So in between showers, I hope to try out the controller. Never used it before. As I recall, there is one thing missing on it someone prior has removed.

Thanks for the advice, keep em coming.

Larry

Re: M11 fuel line questions

Reply #7 – March 23, 2019, 09:05:36 am

On my 95 320 the purge and filters were just aft of the passenger side tire on the frame rail. The fuel line fails first where it is exposed to the elements and stress which is from the prefilter forward to the entry to the center wireway. Look closely and you will see cracks, especially at bends. I did my main fuel line run in about 3-4 hours with fiberglass rods designed to fish wiring. Then I got it started and drove it to Gary Omel's. I wrote it up a few years back. The keys to success were the ability to remove the propane tank (built a ramp and slid it out), a custom built claw foot to access the center connection on the tank and a custom fuel cap with an air fitting to slowly pressurize the tank for the initial purge.

The only difficult part of running the hose was from the rear axle to the rearmost open bay.

Re: M11 fuel line questions

Reply #8 – March 23, 2019, 02:44:28 pm

Thanks Dave. I'm going to try to get down there between showers today. Do you recall what diameter line it took? If I have cracks in that area, I might try splicing in a new section to get me up and running to be able to replace it all. I would rather do it all myself, but it would be in the storage lot, 20 miles from the house and wouldn't have the tools handy or be able to pull the tank out. If I bring it to the house, it will barely fit from the road to my garage in a housing addition. For quick fixes, maybe, but I think if I have to pull the fuel tank time would not be my ally.

I read you write up last fall, I will pull it back up and reread it.

Thanks,
Larry

Re: M11 fuel line questions

Reply #9 – March 23, 2019, 05:42:11 pm

Made it to the coach for an informative inspection. To much rain in the area moving thru to consider working seriously on it. It appears that the fuel/water separator/filter is in the battery bay. It may be the original one, not sure. It is a filthy mess caked with oil/dirt/grease. It has what appears to be a 12v wire coming out of the bottom, thru an inline fuse (?) and going into a solenoid. What I think is supposed to be the clear bowl was so dirty I assumed it was metal till I started to clean it. It is plastic and rotated quite easily by finger. On the back side it said Winn Diesel fuel filter. It then began dripping diesel fuel. I assume this isn't proper and that the o-rings that David mentioned have deteriorated. The main filter looks like someone had scraped the paint off of it, perhaps trying to replace it. It has a dent in the bottom like they tried to take it off with large pliers. I can't see any numbers or identification on it at all.

On opening the rear hatch, I have two controls. One with the air minder gauge, one "on" light, one "start" button and a whole where at one time it appears to have been a switch for "on/off". I assume this is the engine starting assembly. The other control is a Winn control module. It has one button for "air purge" and one for "h2o" purge. Is this the prime button that Red Tractor' and Kemajohn are talking about? I didn't bring the batteries down because of the rain so I wasn't able to try their suggestion on how to prime it. I did find the schraeder valve on top of the filter. The cap on it was the only thing clean.

Beside the filter/separator is a bag hanging completely soaked in grease/oil. Never new what it was for. It is hanging by tie wraps and it appears that their is a hose going into it. Is this some sort of fuel overflow line?? I was wondering if a PO had put this bag over the overflow (if this is what it is) with some oil dry in the bag.

Upon closer inspection, as Dave Head correctly said, Their are cracks in the fuel line going into and out of the filter/separator. I'm going to reread Dave's posts and that of others (had read last fall) and analyze if I want to do the fuel line install myself. That way if something is screwed up, I know who to blame and I have better control over the materials used. If some want to chime in on the better fuel lines, filters, fittings, etc. etc. please feel free. I deeply appreciate all the knowledge and advice I can get.

Thanks to all the great members who have answered my questions so far. It has helped me to know where to start looking. Now I hope to take it a further step.

Larry

Re: M11 fuel line questions

Reply #10 – March 23, 2019, 06:33:23 pm

The fuel lines may need to be replaced, but I still think there's a good chance the Winn system is the culprit. You should be able to find significant information about it by searching here or on a Google search of the Web. I replaced mine with a Parker/Racor unit and it was straightforward, and I was able to use my existing fuel lines.

I think your existing fuel lines can appear to have some cracks without causing a significant problem, but I know by personal experience that if the Winn system has an air leak the engine will start and run perfectly for a few seconds and then die and refuse to restart.

Re: M11 fuel line questions

Reply #11 – March 23, 2019, 07:17:04 pm

You don't want to hit the water purge button only the air purge. It sounds like you need to replace the o rings on that plastic filter. I am not sure but think the part number for the plastic filter is 300300

Re: M11 fuel line questions

Reply #12 – March 23, 2019, 08:09:55 pm

Can't remember size but there's plenty of info. I'm tent camping this weekend

Re: M11 fuel line questions

Reply #13 – March 23, 2019, 08:24:46 pm

You guys are great. Thanks. I brought home the manuals and am going through them I found the Winn System operating and service instructions. It's all getting clearer now. Thanks a million.

Larry

Re: M11 fuel line questions

Reply #14 – March 23, 2019, 09:06:31 pm

Want the truth?

Toss the Winn. Replace with racor,

Replace rubber fuel lines. ULSD fuel kills rubber.

Fuel lines died a horrible death.

Re: M11 fuel line questions

Reply #15 – March 23, 2019, 09:12:10 pm

Who sells racor? Online? Local? Research, research. The lines are going to be replaced. Don't want to take the chance of the side of the road. At least now, I'm in a safe secure place to do a preventative fix instead of a knee jerk reaction. I still want to know the better quality items for the replacement. Just like a Foretravel, "it only costs a little more to go first class."

Larry

Re: M11 fuel line questions

Reply #16 – March 23, 2019, 09:17:44 pm

Quote from: ohsonew – March 23, 2019, 09:12:10 pm

Who sells racor? Online? Local? Research, research. The lines are going to be replaced. Don't want to take the chance of the side of the road. At least now, I'm in a safe secure place to do a preventative fix instead of a knee jerk reaction. I still want to know the better quality items for the replacement. Just like a Foretravel, "it only costs a little more to go first class."

I don't have the Parker Racor model number at my fingertips, but if you search here on Foreforums you should find some excellent posts. I bought mine online; just search for the best price.

Re: M11 fuel line questions

Reply #17 – March 24, 2019, 09:53:40 am

FT Parts will tell you the best replacement for the Winn in your coach, and probably has it in stock. They had mine.

Re: M11 fuel line questions

Reply #18 – March 24, 2019, 01:15:48 pm

Found these looking on Ebay,Cummins fuel line vibration isolators,P/N,3917746,is a blue nylon clip,may be worth a try.

Re: M11 fuel line questions

Reply #19 – March 24, 2019, 02:06:05 pm

Thanks Brett, will check.

John 44, are these for the fuel lines attached to the engine? I could be wrong, but I wouldn't think that isolators would be needed for the rubber fuel lines through the bays.

Thanks,
Larry

Re: M11 fuel line questions

Reply #20 – March 24, 2019, 03:53:17 pm

Look up Cummins fuel lines on Ebay,they are Cummins parts so would be for the engine,they connect/hold 2 close lines together.
Connectors like that are used in the oil and gas indusry where many controls use stainless tubing intead of wires for every control.
If you can tie 2,3,6 lines together you cut down on vibration.Somebody can search that part number on the Cummins site and see
what it says.

Re: M11 fuel line questions

Reply #21 – March 24, 2019, 05:27:32 pm

Thanks John, makes sense. vibration is always bad for hoses, wires, etc.

Larry

Re: M11 fuel line questions

Reply #22 – April 02, 2019, 07:22:02 pm

We have a winner!!!! D.J. was correct. after disassembling the prefilter, I couldn't get the correct new o rings. The rings looked brand new, no cracks and had good form. Coated with silicone grease, reinstalled, primed the winn system while pushing the shraeder valve to bleed the air. Tried to start the coach, lots of cranking but no start. Primed and bled air again, started up after about 5 seconds of cranking. Ran for about 20 minutes without missing a beat.

Thanks to all for helping to train me on the where's & what's. Now on to the next issue...........

Re: M11 fuel line questions

Reply #23 – April 02, 2019, 07:37:15 pm

The Winn issues will return i am afraid

Replace the unit with a Racor

Re: M11 fuel line questions

Reply #24 – April 02, 2019, 09:24:10 pm

Yep, the new Racor 790r30 is supposed to be delivered tomorrow

. I plan on moving it to the back of the engine compartment so that I can access it much easier. going to replace all the fuel lines also. I don't think the main fuel line is sucking air yet, but I can see cracks at the primary filter. The rest of the line, out of the elements seems much better, but since I will relocate the primary filter about 6' further back, I want to do a preemptive strike before I am on the side of the road. My fuel line to the generator has developed a crack so that it has stopped working, so the age thing has caught up with me.

Larry

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