Surge protector woes

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Surge protector woes

October 15, 2019, 01:14:23 pm

My coach has Maverick over/under voltage protection, so I don't see a need for an expensive EMS system. However I did see a need for an outboard surge protector. Mostly for lightning caused power surges that might be too fast for the Maverick to respond.

So I bought a Progressive Industries SSP-50X last December. I liked it for the surge working indicator, that stopped working yesterday. I also liked it for Progressive support, who told me the unit is a throw away after giving its life to protect from one surge. It's not repairable.

I'll try opening it up so see if there are replaceable components or not. If not I'll need to decide whether or not to buy another one that stops protecting after just one surge.

After all, I managed just fine for 30 years without surge protection.

Re: Surge protector woes

Reply #1 – October 15, 2019, 01:55:19 pm

Quote from: Tom Lang – October 15, 2019, 01:14:23 pm

However I did see a need for an outboard surge protector. Mostly for lightning caused power surges that might be too fast for the Maverick to respond.

Just to clarify: Yes, surge protectors can protect to a small degree from a lightening strike.

But their ability to protect is VERY SMALL if the lightening strike is nearby.

By far your best protection is to unplug from shore power if you are in the coach and an electrical storm approaches.

Been there, done that. And, watched a coach next to us at the Treasure Island RV park near Red Wing, MN suffer extensive electrical damage-- this right after he emphatically said, "I never disconnect-- I have a surge protector".

Re: Surge protector woes

Reply #2 – October 15, 2019, 03:49:37 pm

I always disconnect for known or expected electrical storms in the area. There was no such activity when my surge protector bit the dust. Whatever might have been the cause, I was left unprotected from any second occurrence.

Re: Surge protector woes

Reply #3 – October 15, 2019, 10:18:26 pm

Call progressive, they just sent me a new one.

Surge suppression keeps on working, until it take a hit that was bigger then it can handle. No one notices all the hits it takes and protects until the big one it can not handle.

Re: Surge protector woes

Reply #4 – October 15, 2019, 10:25:07 pm

Progressive Industries products have a lifetime warranty. You need to have your receipt. Call them. Check it out here.
John M.

Progressive Industries SSP-50X

Re: Surge protector woes

Reply #5 – October 15, 2019, 10:44:03 pm

I called and was told the warranty only covers defects, not power surges.

I have since sent in a web based warranty claim. Will see if the outcome differs.

If they say no, I'll try opening it up and replacing blown M.O.V.s.

But at this point I question the wisdom of buying another surge protector that only protects once, then leaves me unprotected.

Re: Surge protector woes

Reply #6 – October 16, 2019, 12:17:53 am

Been using the portable Watchdog with EPO, with a replaceable surge protection board (4,800 joules) from Hughes for a couple months now. This compares to the Progressive Industries portable unit that has1,650 joules of surge protection. I especially like the replaceable feature, and the bluetooth that let's me see instantly my power usage on each leg of the 50 amps.

I also appreciate the Huges bluetooth program giving me a message that power is irregular, or off, outside the 104V to 134V limits.

Products – Power Watchdog | Hughes Autoformers

I also installed the Progressive Industries HW50C unit between the circuit breaker panel and the ATS thus protecting me from the generator as well as the shore power for under or over voltage.

With the Progressive Industries EMS-50C hard wired in with 3,580 joules surge protection, and with 4,800 joules from the Hughes Watchdog this gives me a total combined protection of 8,380 joules of surge protection.

I asked the mfgs about using both units as I am and they said this is a good thing as it raises up the joules of protection as they get doubled up effectively doubling my protection.

Too much invested in AC appliances, Samsung tv and Samsung refrigerator, microwave, Xanrex SW inverter/charger, etc. to not be protected. And yes, I too unplug when in a lightning storm.

I'll watch the posts, replys, and updates. I will also make sure these products are covered by mfg warranty and find out what that means by questioning the mfgs.

Re: Surge protector woes

Reply #7 – October 16, 2019, 04:24:39 am

Hughes' power watchdog sounds like the one I want. Any idea what it costs to replace a used up surge module? Do you need to send the unit to Hughes or DIY?

I like the model that shuts off power when questionable, then back on when good.

Re: Surge protector woes

Reply #8 – October 16, 2019, 04:59:09 am

MOVs: Sacrificial By Design

MOV's are the mainstay component of the surge protector industry. For certain electronic applications they are an excellent choice.. MOV's function by creating a short circuit (usually to the neutral and the ground) when a preset voltage threshold is exceeded. Essentially they divert surge current away from what the surge protector is protecting. Unfortunately MOV's are sacrificial components. This means that the performance life of any surge protector utilizing this technology is finite. With every surge current diversion above a modest level an MOV comes closer to its inevitable end.

Joule Rating/Surge Current Limitations

The joule rating of any MOV is a measure of the amount of energy it can absorb at one time without failing. With an MOV this level declines with use. When exceeded it can cause an explosion or a fire. In a harsh, lightning prone environment this limit can easily be reached. The massive inductor used in our Brick Wall Surge Protectors limits current (hence voltage) and has no real world surge current/joule rating limitations. Our surge protectors can withstand the harshest surge environment indefinitely.

Thermal Runaway (Fire)

Clamping threshold is the voltage level where the MOV activates. Typically it is set around 220V at 1 milliamp current. With the peak of the sine wave normally at 172V, a surge of only an additional 50V will activate that MOV. Just as repeated usage causes the joule limit of an MOV to drop it can also cause the clamping level to do the same. Eventually the clamping point can fall below the peak of the normal sine wave. In essence the MOV turns on with every cycle of the powerwave and experiences thermal runaway (fire).

Re: Surge protector woes

Reply #9 – October 16, 2019, 05:43:49 am

After reading the above, I have a theory.

A few weeks ago, I had a power episode one night in a brand new park. I heard what sounded like the ATS repeatedly connecting and disconnecting. The heat pump was on, and shutting it off solved the problem. I checked the built in voltage monitor, and it showed 127 volts.

The Maverick EMS is set to shut off power over 127 volts.

Apparently the heat pump cycling caused power to slightly exceed 127 volts, which shut off power in the coach and also shortened the life of the surge protector MOVs. Another two weeks of normal-ish power and it's toast.

I probably would have suffered no damage without the surge protector. But it's foolish self destruction from harmless surges left me without surge protection. .... Until I can buy a new surge protector or get lucky with their limited lifetime warranty.

The Hughes unit would be somewhat better in that the surge module is user replaceable, but that still leaves me unprotected for a time.

Maybe I should go back to what I've been doing for 30 years, no sacrificial siege protector but manually unplug if lightning is likely or the voltage is borderline high or low.

Re: Surge protector woes

Reply #10 – October 16, 2019, 07:44:39 am

Quote from: Tom Lang – October 16, 2019, 05:43:49 am

Maybe I should go back to what I've been doing for 30 years, no sacrificial siege protector but manually unplug if lightning is likely or the voltage is borderline high or low.

Voltage levels in parks can change randomly and without warning. Your "manual" system would work fine if you are prepared to monitor a voltage meter 24/7 for dangerous fluctuations. Sounds kinda tiring to me...

Re: Surge protector woes

Reply #11 – October 16, 2019, 08:32:23 am

I've been using a Delta surge protector in my S&B for 10+ years with no problems. These are relatively inexpensive (<$100) and are easily installed and replaced if needed. I emailed them and they said their units would work in a motorhome.
I do have a Progressive protector installed in my FT but may consider adding one of these.
Delta Lightning Arrestors

Re: Surge protector woes

Reply #12 – October 16, 2019, 09:00:41 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – October 16, 2019, 07:44:39 am

Voltage levels in parks can change randomly and without warning. Your "manual" system would work fine if you are prepared to monitor a voltage meter 24/7 for dangerous fluctuations. Sounds kinda tiring to me...

My Maverick system should take care of non-lightning fluctuations. Only once in 11 years did I see it kick in.

And it might work for lightning.

Re: Surge protector woes

Reply #13 – October 16, 2019, 09:43:45 am

The Maverick won't protect you from miswire, voltage on ground, or frequency issues.

Yes, EMS devices and surge protectors do have sacrificial components, but they do more than just over/under voltage.

Re: Surge protector woes

Reply #14 – October 16, 2019, 10:14:08 am

I got lucky. Apparently the warranty person is different from the customer support person.

Hello ,
Your Warranty Claim has been reviewed and approved. Your warranty order has been entered, with expected shipping sometime in the next 7 to 10 business days. Tracking available upon request once unit ships. Your defective unit does Not need to be return. Please cut the plug off and throw the unit away(recycle).

Re: Surge protector woes

Reply #15 – October 16, 2019, 12:05:37 pm

After I got that email I had the unit about 2 days later, I was surprised I had it so quick.

Re: Surge protector woes

Reply #16 – October 16, 2019, 12:22:15 pm

While we are on the subject of surge protection the stand alone one that I am impressed with is the Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA

Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA

Price is great for amount of protection, has idiot lights that shine if unit is OK and powered up, they want a 50 amp breaker on it (a lot of others say only a 20a breaker), and It has a great warranty (up to $75K) to pay for burned up equipment if anything gets burned up. I have never had to used the warranty so do not know how well they are at paying off.

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Surge protector woes

Reply #17 – October 16, 2019, 04:39:31 pm

For what it's worth, fixing the blown surge module looks like a piece of cake. I ordered some MOVs on eBay dirt cheap (I plan to replace all six, even non-failed MOVs are probably close to death), and will see what I can do with my soldering iron.

Then I'll have a spare instead of waiting for a week or more unprotected every time I suffer a MOV sacrifice.

Re: Surge protector woes

Reply #18 – October 16, 2019, 09:32:39 pm

Tom, please let us know how that project turns out.

Re: Surge protector woes

Reply #19 – October 16, 2019, 11:07:09 pm

Quote from: kb0zke – October 16, 2019, 09:32:39 pm

Tom, please let us know how that project turns out.

Absolutely. I'll have the MOVs on Monday, remove the old ones and test the diodes, resistors, and fuse, solder in the new MOVs, and see how it works.

Re: Surge protector woes

Reply #20 – October 17, 2019, 01:53:22 pm

Has anyone here opened up a Progressive Surge protector? They claim some degree of water resistance.

I couldn't help but notice both halves of the shell have a groove, usually there for a gasket. But I found no gasket.

This is not as water resistant as I was led to believe. As designed designed or defective?

Re: Surge protector woes

Reply #21 – October 24, 2019, 08:58:12 pm

As a follow up,

My warranty replacement came yesterday. I got a free upgrade to the xl model.

And my light emitting diodes also came yesterday. On just the failed module (there are two surge modules), I replaced all three MOVs and two burned out LEDs. About fifty cents in parts

So I now have two working surge protectors. I now have a spare for when (not if) the primary unit fails. Or I can hook them up in tandem.

And I'll carry the extra parts and tools with me for next time.

Re: Surge protector woes

Reply #22 – October 25, 2019, 05:02:51 am

Quote from: Tom Lang – October 16, 2019, 04:24:39 am

Hughes' power watchdog sounds like the one I want. Any idea what it costs to replace a used up surge module? Do you need to send the unit to Hughes or DIY?

I like the model that shuts off power when questionable, then back on whe&n good.

Sorry, I did not see your question untill now. Yes, I have the Power Watchdog with EPO (emergency power off). It will shut off the power if Hz is low or high, or if volts are low or high, approx 104 or 132 volts. The module is user replaceable, now selling for $30 with free shipping.

After your experience, I now will order one to keep on hand as a spare. This is for a module with 4,800 joules of protection, compared to the Progressive Industries portable unit with 1,650 joules of protection.

Power Watchdog-EPO 50 Amp Surge Protection Module (PWD50-EPO) | Hughes...

When I talked to Hughes about combining my portable unit with my built in Progressive Industries hard wired unit they said that is a good thing, as now my protection would be the total joules of each unit added togeather. (4,800 + 3,580 = 8380 j)

I am enjoying the bluetooth app for the Hughes unit with EPO. I can see instantly the power used on each leg. Also it sends a message to my phone if power is out of desired Hz or voltage. When I turn on an appliance like toaster, microwave, electric heater I can instantly see amps it adds, total amps, and which leg of power it is on.

"Surge protectors offer protection in amounts called joules. Generally, the more joules the better, as this means the device can handle one large surge, or multiple smaller surges, before your gear is in danger. Over time, the parts inside the protector wear down, reducing its effectiveness."

Valuable Equipment Needs a Higher Joule Rating

"Are you protecting a $500 PC or a $5,000 home theater? Obviously, the higher the value of your equipment, the higher the quality of surge protector required. While any device that gets plugged into an AC outlet can benefit from surge protection, inexpensive components such as lamps, digital clocks and blenders don't need a high level of protection. A unit with up to 1000 joules of surge protection is adequate for these small electronics. Some components have sensitive circuitry requiring protection, but don't store extensive data. A surge protector with 1000 to 2000 joules will provide sufficient protection for power tools and office equipment such as printers, copiers and routers. Consider the highest joule ratings—2000 and above—for home theater components, gaming consoles and any computer that stores important data ... anything from customer lists to financial information to irreplaceable photos and favorite music."

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