What type of rivets used?

Topic: What type of rivets used? (Read 1175 times) previous topic - next topic

What type of rivets used?

December 21, 2019, 03:09:19 pm

Going through the coach and doing maintenance I wanted to check on the generator. As always, the door is stuck and will not unlatch. A slight bump of the knee while working the handle does the trick.

After opening the door I decided to explore why is the lock hanging up. My search discovered all of the holes holding the lock in place were worn and the entire lock assembly was loose. It was holding only in one corner. I worked the lock loose and removed it.

Now to repair the problem.
1. I'm thinking of removing the door and working on it in the shop.
2. Going to clean out the holes being careful not to go through the other side. Just might use the dremel for this job. Don't know if I need to enlarge the holes.
3. Going to use a high psi epoxy to fill the holes.
4. Drill and rivet the bracket back in place.

This is my thought process. Does anyone have a better solution? Also, does anyone know what type of rivet is this and how is the size determined. I was going to go by the hole size in the bracket since it is pretty tight to the hole.

Attached is a picture of the bracket and holes in the door.

John M.

P.S. For those of you having issue opening your door, check the rigidity of your lock in the door.

Re: What type of rivets used?

Reply #1 – December 21, 2019, 03:20:33 pm

John,

Several good ways to address this.

One of the easiest IF it would not negatively affect lock mechanism geometry is to buy a 1/8" thick or even 1/4" thicka couple of inches wider and taller than the mechanism.

Drill holes in the plate so that you can mount the lock mechanism to the plate. If 1/4", you could tap and use screws, if thinner, through bolt with "small head" bolts from the back side.

Then 4 more holes in the plate well outside the current holes. Use that as a template for drilling new holes in the inside panel of the door and re-rivet.

No messing with epoxy, no need to remove the door.

Re: What type of rivets used?

Reply #2 – December 21, 2019, 03:21:33 pm

Those are the same style as window regulator rivets just a little shorter. I think I have some, measure the length and if I do I can mail you some.

Re: What type of rivets used?

Reply #3 – December 21, 2019, 07:20:50 pm

Brett,
I like your idea of using a larger plate and relocating the mounting holes. I was looking at the striker post and it looks like it can still move back farther about a 1/4". Making up for the extra thickness. If I don't use a thicker plate I can use some bolts with nuts and lock washers and insert them from the bottom allowing the heads to rest in the old holes allowing the new plate to lay flat on the door. The hardest part is finding the correct rivet. Thanks for the idea.
John M.

Re: What type of rivets used?

Reply #4 – December 21, 2019, 07:45:30 pm

Quote from: craneman – December 21, 2019, 03:21:33 pm

Those are the same style as window regulator rivets just a little shorter. I think I have some, measure the length and if I do I can mail you some.

I tried to search the window regulator rivets and came empty handed. Attached is a rough drawing of the rivet. I'll keep searching.
Thanks for the help, John M.

Re: What type of rivets used?

Reply #5 – December 21, 2019, 09:11:28 pm

Searching the forum I found that the rivets keep coming out over time on the latch repairs. We will have to rethink this whole project.
John M.

Re: What type of rivets used?

Reply #6 – December 21, 2019, 09:24:15 pm

John

Have you tried Fastenall CO.?

Split Rivets | Fastenal

Re: What type of rivets used?

Reply #7 – December 21, 2019, 09:37:09 pm

Quote from: John Morales – December 21, 2019, 09:11:28 pm

Searching the forum I found that the rivets keep coming out over time on the latch repairs. We will have to rethink this whole project.
John M.

Once you get it secured in place with rivets, rough up the fiberglass out from the latch 1.5" all the way around. Then clean with rubbing alcohol or similar. Then mask it off (for a neat looking job), and use 2 part JB weld from metal on the latch to the roughed up fiberglass.

I solved the latch problem on my generator radiator basement door doing this (after kayaks dumped on the interstate immediately in front of us pulled the latch loose as it went under the coach). I would take a photo of it, but don't have access to the coach for the next week or two (it's in Xtreme's paint bay).

The masking tape made it look neat, the color is light gray, and it's hidden away from view anyway.

You might even want the JB weld under the latch as you rivet it back in place. Wire brush the metal latch, and the fiberglass under the latch. The goal is to re-enforce and not rely on "only" 4 rivets.

Re: What type of rivets used?

Reply #8 – December 21, 2019, 10:59:09 pm

Boats use stainless rivets. Find some 3/16 SS and large backing washers. Rough up the area, JB weld the joining points.
Dont pull the rivets fully , just enough to compress the package. Cut the rivet pins.

Re: What type of rivets used?

Reply #9 – December 21, 2019, 11:09:21 pm

Larry,
Thanks for the option. I searched the forum and see where the rivets are judt not cutting it. I'm going to call Foretravel on Monday and see what rivet they suggest. The rivet that was in there lasted 20 years. I'm also looking at other options other than rivets. One member filled the holes with JB Weld then drilled and tapped the holes. We will explore all of the possible options.
John M.

Re: What type of rivets used?

Reply #10 – December 21, 2019, 11:13:07 pm

There is nothing wrong with the use of rivets for that job.

But, a different style and perhaps a little larger diameter, both to spread the load would certainly by my recommendation.

Re: What type of rivets used?

Reply #11 – December 21, 2019, 11:25:59 pm

Bear with me, because I haven't seen how everything mounts but, if I were doing a repair on this problem on my coach, I would have a plate the same thickness as the existing mounting plate welded to the existing mounting plate. Not under it, but cut so the existing plate would fit into the added plate. Make the added plate wide enough that additional holes (like 4 more) could be added to spread out the force applied to the material of the door.
Nothing appears on the outside and John could add as many rivets as he wants, plus the JB Weld on the back.

Re: What type of rivets used?

Reply #12 – December 22, 2019, 01:05:56 am

Quote from: John Morales – December 21, 2019, 07:45:30 pm

I tried to search the window regulator rivets and came empty handed. Attached is a rough drawing of the rivet. I'll keep searching.
Thanks for the help, John M.

Here is some.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7702764

Re: What type of rivets used?

Reply #13 – December 22, 2019, 01:43:29 am

From what I have seen, and I have drilled out many of the OEM rivets, FOT used these type of rivets.McMaster-Carr
The inserted parts splits into four segments and looks kind of like a flower pedal from the blind side.
Don

Re: What type of rivets used?

Reply #14 – December 22, 2019, 09:04:54 am

Because I used the diameter size rivet that Brett has just posted, I know the old standard hand riveting tool won't cut it. I had to go buy the much bigger riveting tool. It even has a catch bottle for the mandrels. Handles are over 1' long so you can get some leverage and, boy, will you need it!!.
I think I bought mine at Harbor Freight. Don't remember the price but not expensive. It is what I used to put my solar mounting frames together with. The rivets I bought at Menards. Probably available at Lowes, Home Depot, or McMaster-Carr.

Re: What type of rivets used?

Reply #15 – December 22, 2019, 11:15:10 am

The rivets Don posted are the same diameter and pretty darn close to what came out. The one craneman posted looks the same, just a larger diameter. I don't think the larger rivet would hurt anything. We will go to our local Napa and see if we can find them. We will keep everyone updated on the fix. Thanks everyone for the ideas and the rivet info.

To be continued, John M

Re: What type of rivets used?

Reply #16 – December 22, 2019, 01:39:03 pm

The door styker style of rivets that require the huge puller mentioned above will. CRush the soft fiberglass . Those spilt rivets are softer pull . That's why I said to not pull the SS rivets all the way.
Just enough to hold the latch snug .

Re: What type of rivets used?

Reply #17 – December 22, 2019, 01:41:10 pm

Agree, stainless steel rivets are a LOT stiffer than aluminum. Have used plenty of them on the sailboat.

The "wider footprint" aluminum rivets should provide plenty of clamping force for that application.

Re: What type of rivets used?

Reply #18 – December 28, 2019, 05:50:12 pm

Well every job is an adventure. Sometimes the stupid mistakes cause us more work than the job itself. Anyhow, we were able to repair the bay door lock today. We ended up going with a larger rivet. The larger footprint rivet worked great. We ended up getting the rivets Craneman recommended. They were readily available at our local NAPA. They were 1/4" in diameter vs the 3/16" that was in there originally. They were identical on how they split. They split in three legs. I was able to use the original holes from the 3/16" rivets. The holes were worn out enough to give us enough room for expanding the rivets and keeping tension. They fell in the recommended hole diameter range. When installing the rivets I shot 3M5200 in the holes, inserted the rivets, compressed them till they were very tight and I cut and snapped off the remainder of the mandrel manually. The lock was on there very tight. When done I readjusted the lock and post. Now here is where the stupidity comes in. So excited about the fit, I wanted to see if it was aligning with the latch post. I carefully lowered the door to bring it close to the latch post and the pressure of the cylinders was enough while very close to the bottom of the swing to lock the door. It closed so nicely, I went to open the door and it would not open. I realized in my eagerness to test the latch I did not reinstall the handle latch arm to the lock. Now I had to remove the trim and all the screws holding the door hinge and opened the door. Something I was trying to avoid. In the process I learned that the screws holding the door hinge, many were wore out. I went with the next size up and they are tight. Job is done. Opens and closes very nicely and with a light touch. Attached is the box of rivets, a sample rivet and the rivet tool I bought at Harbor Freight. Also pictures of the latch installation. A big thanks to everyone for the advice and input. On to the next job.
John M.

Re: What type of rivets used?

Reply #19 – December 28, 2019, 07:50:40 pm

John, that is exactly the same rivet tool I had to buy to pull the 3/16" aluminum rivets. Works nicely and easily.

Re: What type of rivets used?

Reply #20 – January 09, 2020, 02:29:28 am

What about putting riv nuts in there?
I've had a few problems with getting my door open so I'm sure that I'm going to have to do something like this soon haven't looked at it hard enough yet though got enough to do. Also having trouble with the engine bay door opening easily as well again it'll have to wait till later.

Re: What type of rivets used?

Reply #21 – January 11, 2020, 10:11:13 am

Rivnuts spread the material . Rivits compress the material . Use large washers and soflty compress the fiberglass.

Re: What type of rivets used?

Reply #22 – January 11, 2020, 11:33:06 am

When shooting a rivet in a blind hole like in our bay door lock assembly, there is no way to install a washer on the back side The rivet is going to end up spreading the material.
John M.

Re: What type of rivets used?

Reply #23 – January 11, 2020, 12:42:26 pm

Thats why you dont pull them all of the way. Tug until you feel or hear it crush, and cut the pin off.

Re: What type of rivets used?

Reply #24 – January 12, 2020, 02:07:09 am

Quote from: Protech Racing – January 11, 2020, 10:11:13 am

Rivnuts spread the material . Rivits compress the material . Use large washers and soflty compress the fiberglass.

Mike can your explain more please. Not sure I understand. A Rivnut only pulls at the back of the material unless you over tighten it. It forms a type of rivet that you can put a bolt into. Seems like it might be a better way of fastening it IF there is room behind for the riv nut.

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