start batteries

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start batteries

January 01, 2020, 12:36:40 am

Maxwell 12-Volt Heavy Duty Engine Start Module Ultracapacitor Ultra 31/1800...
Anyone using one of these to replace their start batteries?

Re: start batteries

Reply #1 – January 01, 2020, 09:34:59 am

Quote from: jcus – January 01, 2020, 12:36:40 am

Maxwell 12-Volt Heavy Duty Engine Start Module Ultracapacitor Ultra 31/1800...
Anyone using one of these to replace their start batteries?

"I'm Barbara Walters, and this is 2020!"

Ummmmm. Did you read the corporate puffery?

"Peak Power: 32.8 KW
Cold Cranking Amps: 1800 CCA (3 Seconds To Crank)"

I just want to point out that 32.8 Kilo Watts is a lot of power over an hour.

1800 Cold Cranking Amps at 12.6V is 22,680 Watts

1800 Cold Cranking Amps over 3 seconds is 18.9 watt hours.

All of our vehicles have times when they need to be cranked 10 seconds and allowed to rest, repeat as necessary.

Re: start batteries

Reply #2 – January 01, 2020, 09:37:31 am

And, in addition to cranking load, you have the intake manifold heater on most modern diesels. Take a lot of amps and for longer than 10 seconds in cold temps.

Re: start batteries

Reply #3 – January 01, 2020, 10:36:10 am

Boy, am I glad our "crappy" maligned Turbo-charged Detroit Diesel V8 only needs a 950CCA battery and starts in 1/2 revolution after sitting in storage for 5-1/2 months.
Must be something wrong with it.

Oh, and we don't exercise the generator or rotate the tires by driving the coach around to warm up the engine--all for 5-1/2 months.
Everything works fine in the spring. Must be doing something wrong or else REALLY cold storage is good for it.

Re: start batteries

Reply #4 – January 01, 2020, 10:52:05 am

Just read the small print, appears you need to use it in combination with regular LA batteries.
So, not such a big deal.

Re: start batteries

Reply #5 – January 01, 2020, 10:54:19 am

Quote from: nitehawk – January 01, 2020, 10:36:10 am

Everything works fine in the spring. Must be doing something wrong or else REALLY cold storage is good for it.

So far, at southern temperatures our 5.9L Cummins starts after a few compression strokes. The previous owner had used a Group 24 battery. Right now we have a one year old used 4D as a start battery, and next on the list is an 8D. When I was a teenager, who do you think went out in zero degree morning to build snow walls around a truck engine?

And yes, really cold storage is a good thing. The house organ of the Antique Automobile Club of America, Antique Automobile, once published a story describing how to charge you automobile batteries and store them in your deep freeze when not in use.

Happy New Year!

PS On my bike the carburetors are adjusted fo 90 degree days and is a stretch to start at 50. Lynn's bike is factory and floods on those warm days. The Siata is being started normally now and takes a couple of 10 second cranking periods after sitting a couple of days.

Count your blessings. If your Detroit heard what you said, you may have bought yourself problems in the New Year. The machines are listening.

https://youtu.be/wXxrmussq4E

Re: start batteries

Reply #6 – January 01, 2020, 11:19:59 am

I think our DD V8 knows how I defend it from non-believers and poo-pooing critics.
Everything has a use and our coach is perfectly suited for how we use it.
Oh, the 950 CCA truck battery cost $110 + tax and comes with a 7 year prorated warranty.
Kind of hard to justify a 8D battery for $280 and a one year warranty, isn't it?
The weight difference is around 120# and makes it a whole lot easier for this 77 year old to lift out or in the battery well under the steps of the coach.

Re: start batteries

Reply #7 – January 01, 2020, 11:31:50 am

On our 6v92 turn key to start and immediately here the sweet rumble

Re: start batteries

Reply #8 – January 01, 2020, 12:50:34 pm

I never exercise any diesel. On occasion, our Case sits for over a year and starts instantly. It's a 1957 with nothing done to it. The 300SD is in a backup role now and also sits sometimes for a year. Glow for about 5 seconds and the first piston up fires even in below freezing temp even after months of sitting. This is after 440,000 miles.

Brett,

"And, in addition to cranking load, you have the intake manifold heater on most modern diesels." Mercedes is still making the Detroit 6V-92TA today and it has never had a intake heater. Just a stupidly placed "block" heater installed by Foretravel in the thermostat housing, not in the block where normal Detroit 71/92 series installations have theirs.

Old Toolmaker: All of my Detroits have listened to me since the 1960s and send me Valentine's Day cards and chocolates every year.

Indirect injection diesels usually have glow plugs to aid starting. For winter starting, one 8D up to a 8.3 Cummins, larger should have more CCA as in two 8Ds or three 24/31 series.

Pierce

Re: start batteries

Reply #9 – January 01, 2020, 05:42:40 pm

Quote from: nitehawk – January 01, 2020, 11:19:59 am

Oh, the 950 CCA truck battery cost $110 + tax and comes with a 7 year prorated warranty.
Kind of hard to justify a 8D battery for $280 and a one year warranty, isn't it?
The weight difference is around 120# and makes it a whole lot easier for this 77 year old to lift out or in the battery well under the steps of the coach.

Yeah but it's what I want to use and an 8D contains a whole lot of electrons. The CCA rating only tells us how fast those electrons can be delivered and not how many. I want lots of electrons.

I too wondered how I would get that pair of 4D batteries into my bay, and I realized that the wooden step I made for the previous RV with a shim or two was the perfect height to slide the 4D batteries into place. An engraved portrait of a dead president found me a volunteer to help with the lifting.

Re: start batteries

Reply #10 – January 01, 2020, 09:30:15 pm

A 950 CCA 31 series only weighs 60 lbs. You only need two for a 8.3 Cummins. With three in our U300 Detroit, that's almost 3000 CCAs. For $200 for two or $300 for three, that's a pretty good price. Plus, easy to R&R. The 24 also worked fine, just like the extra CCA for the same price.

Pierce

Re: start batteries

Reply #11 – January 02, 2020, 05:21:29 am

Quote from: nitehawk – January 01, 2020, 10:36:10 am

Boy, am I glad our "crappy" maligned Turbo-charged Detroit Diesel V8 only needs a 950CCA battery and starts in 1/2 revolution after sitting in storage for 5-1/2 months.
Must be something wrong with it.
Oh, and we don't exercise the generator or rotate the tires by driving the coach around to warm up the engine--all for 5-1/2 months.
Everything works fine in the spring. Must be doing something wrong or else REALLY cold storage is good for it.

IL be honest, I've never had to use my coolant heater , it's there all wired up and connected but I wouldn't have a clue how to even turn it on , I know it's 110 volts , so I presume I need my Onan running to give it that power but where would the switch for this be located , I know I have my ether starting aid switch on dash but I've never had to use that either , actually I don't know if this is a myth or not but I've always been led to believe that starting aids can actually cause problems where as the engine gets used to it and then tends to rely on it, so I've always been reluctant to use any kind of starting aid , where I live we never really get cold enough weather to warrant using it anyway , my engine fires up in an instant

Re: start batteries

Reply #12 – January 02, 2020, 08:01:14 am

Kevo0000,

1. Engine block heater: Look for a 110V duplex electrical outlet somewhere in the engine compartment. Lift up the mattress platform and look around. The block heater plugs into the outlet. 110V power can be supplied by generator or (more commonly) by shore power connection. The outlet is controlled by a switch - usually mounted on the bed platform base. Look for a red plastic switch that lights up when turned on. To test the heater, check the temp of the block in vicinity of the heater (by touching it with your hand or with a non-contact temp gun). Turn the red switch on, and wait about 30 minutes. Check block temp again. It is not uncommon for the block heater to be inoperative, either from a bad power cord or from a burned out element. If it does work, and you use the heater, turn it OFF just before you start the engine.

2. Ether starting aid: If it is the original can of fluid it probably doesn't work. If it does work, don't use it except in extreme emergency. As you say, better for the engine to start without ether. Keep your starting batteries in good shape and you should have no problem. If they get weak, use the BOOST switch to combine the battery banks.

Re: start batteries

Reply #13 – January 02, 2020, 08:22:17 am

For what it is worth: First time I went to use our block heater it didn't work. After sleuthing around I found out that the end of the block heater cord that plugged in to a 120V outlet had burned two of the prongs off. Corroded contacts were the culprits.
Check your outlet and the end of the plug for corrosion before using.
Two things: Our block heater switch is at the lower left of the bed platform--left or passenger side as you are standing in the hallway. When on it will light up red.
Our 120V outlet is in the engine compartment and can be accessed by lifting the bed platform or going in thru the driver's side engine access door.

Re: start batteries

Reply #14 – January 02, 2020, 08:52:09 am

Quote from: kevo0000 – January 02, 2020, 05:21:29 am

actually I don't know if this is a myth or not but I've always been led to believe that starting aids can actually cause problems where as the engine gets used to it and then tends to rely on it, so I've always been reluctant to use any kind of starting aid

Myth. Machinery doesn't "learn," or "get used to," we become accustomed to machinery, and machinery wears out.

Other than as a starting aid in extreme cold, ether's next most common use is to mask problems both electrical and mechanical. So if you use ether to start an engine with poor compression, you will continue to use ether because that compression problem isn't going to cure itself and will continue to become worse with use.

If you are in a situation where the manual tells you that starting aids are necessary, and warming the engine isn't an option, "Push the button Max."

Re: start batteries

Reply #15 – January 02, 2020, 11:43:01 am

Too many drivers have used ether on a warm engine and broken rings or even bent rods are the result. They have just changed fuel filters and the engine won't start so they spray. Used on a cold engine, there is little risk of engine damage. Our Buffalo Bus had a small spring loaded cap on the intake to spray ether. And that was on a Detroit with 2 points higher compression ratio compared to our 6V-92TA. I have seen a big blow torch aimed down the air intake on diesels to wake them up on cold mornings.

Pierce

Re: start batteries

Reply #16 – January 02, 2020, 12:21:47 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – January 02, 2020, 08:01:14 am

Kevo0000,

1. Engine block heater: Look for a 110V duplex electrical outlet somewhere in the engine compartment. Lift up the mattress platform and look around. The block heater plugs into the outlet. 110V power can be supplied by generator or (more commonly) by shore power connection. The outlet is controlled by a switch - usually mounted on the bed platform base. Look for a red plastic switch that lights up when turned on. To test the heater, check the temp of the block in vicinity of the heater (by touching it with your hand or with a non-contact temp gun). Turn the red switch on, and wait about 30 minutes. Check block temp again. It is not uncommon for the block heater to be inoperative, either from a bad power cord or from a burned out element. If it does work, and you use the heater, turn it OFF just before you start the engine.

2. Ether starting aid: If it is the original can of fluid it probably doesn't work. If it does work, don't use it except in extreme emergency. As you say, better for the engine to start without ether. Keep your starting batteries in good shape and you should have no problem. If they get weak, use the BOOST switch to combine the battery banks.

Yes , I know exactly where that switch is , many times when generator been running I've turned that switch on , but couldn't work out what it was powering ,thanks

Re: start batteries

Reply #17 – January 02, 2020, 12:23:25 pm

Raise the bed. On the left side front wall of the engine room (our driver's side) will be a duplex outlet. The switch at the base of the bed turns it on/off. The block heater cord should be plugged into it.

Re: start batteries

Reply #18 – January 02, 2020, 12:53:28 pm

On our U300, the duplex outlet had overheated in the past and was oxidized on the outlet and block heater plug. I replaced the plug with a 20 amp duplex. Block heaters are available in several different wattage choices so be aware if yours has been replaced, it may draw more than OEM. Not a bad idea to get rid of the plastic box and replace with a metal type as ours was deformed from the heat.

Pierce

Re: start batteries

Reply #19 – January 02, 2020, 02:50:29 pm

Great tip!. Our plastic outlet box is also warped out of shape. Replacing it has been on my "To Do" list for some time. Need a 'Round Tuit.

Re: start batteries

Reply #20 – January 02, 2020, 08:14:26 pm

Do you have a converter to change your voltage in England to 120 volts 60 cycles?

Re: start batteries

Reply #21 – January 02, 2020, 09:17:18 pm

That's right!! Over there they run 50 cycle electrics.

Re: start batteries

Reply #22 – January 03, 2020, 12:38:51 pm

Quote from: red tractor – January 02, 2020, 08:14:26 pm

Do you have a converter to change your voltage in England to 120 volts 60 cycles?

I haven't got a clue about 60 cycles I'm learning different things all the time , my coach had all ready been converted , to UK electric 240 volts , when I start my Onan generator I get 240 volts power coming from it , I also still get 110 volts coming from it too , but how this conversion has been done I've never worked that one out yet , I was expecting some kind of power inverter somwhere between the generator output , and electric sockets , but that is one of my things to do at a later date , I have to fit new points and a condenser , I've changed the spark plugs and leads , but to get at the points and condenser , I believe I have to lower the generator down to gain access to them , every now and again I will turn the engine over just to circulate the oil round the engine ,

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