Winter Heat

Topic: Winter Heat (Read 981 times) previous topic - next topic

Winter Heat

December 05, 2020, 07:12:18 pm

I need some educating...My coach is sitting in my driveway and I'm doing some interior work...would like to keep the coach around 60 degrees inside for comfort. Outside temp at night has been high 20's and daytime highs of 38. It's hooked to shore power and I have the t stat set at about 65 degrees on Heat Pumps. I'm also servicing the Aqua Hot and am waiting on some parts and fluid...when I go out in the morning the Heat Pumps are not working and the place is cold...My question is this..are the temps to low to use Heat Pumps?? When I get in the coach it has cold air now blowing out of the defrost vents in the dash..

I guess when the AH is done I would put it on the electrical side and fill water tank and let her run??

Thanks in advance..

Re: Winter Heat

Reply #1 – December 05, 2020, 07:47:43 pm

There was a comment from Michelle a week or so ago re that exact thing and that at really low temps the heat pumps have trouble changing that real cold over to warm air. I would put a couple of electric heaters in the coach on a timer each
JohnH

Re: Winter Heat

Reply #2 – December 05, 2020, 07:59:54 pm

Run space heaters inside and several 200-watt space heaters in the compartments to keep plumbing from freezing while working on Aqua Hot.

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Re: Winter Heat

Reply #3 – December 05, 2020, 08:58:54 pm

We've lived with a heat pump central air conditioner (all electric home) for 40 years. Heat pumps can work very well for cooling in moderate to hot climates. They are great most of the year in West Texas where we live. However, in the winter, even with our relatively mild temps, they start to show their inherent weakness: heating.

Down to about 40 degrees, the heat pump does pretty well heating. Below 40 down to 30F, the heating performance starts to rapidly degrade. The air handler (fan) runs almost constantly as the heat pump struggles. Below 30 degrees F the heat pump is worthless. Fortunately, our house unit includes electric resistance heating strips. They kick in automatically when the heat pump cannot maintain the set temperature. Without them, we would be in trouble.

Agree with above advice. Small thermostatically controlled electric heaters like recommended by Barry are the answer. I have 7 heaters going in our coach as we speak. One in the bathroom, one in the kitchen area, and one in the living area. One sits on the floor in front of the driver seat. It blows warm air on the Allison brain box. I have found this is a good way to avoid transmission trouble in cold weather. Another small heater sits on the dashboard and blows into the front windshield area. This helps avoid condensation forming on the inside of the glass. The last two heaters are in the wet bay - one at each end.

I have used this same heater setup in our coach every winter for 7 years. Our coach sits outside (plugged into 50 amp) unprotected from the weather. In the winter we sometimes get down into the lower teens for several days at a time. We never winterize the coach, and have never had anything freeze up.

Re: Winter Heat

Reply #4 – December 05, 2020, 09:21:06 pm

Quote from: Mike Minegar – December 05, 2020, 07:12:18 pm

I need some educating.... Outside temp at night has been high 20's and daytime highs of 38. It's hooked to shore power and I have the t stat set at about 65 degrees on Heat Pumps..when I go out in the morning the Heat Pumps are not working and the place is cold...My question is this..are the temps to low to use Heat Pumps??

Short answer, yes. Air exchange heat pumps don't work well below 40 F. There's not enough energy in the outdoor/ambient air to transfer to the interior. Plus you are not at all heating the bays when you try to run heat pumps - those solely deliver to the living space, so you risk the plumbing freezing.

Help understanding the HEAT options for my Bus

Re: Winter Heat

Reply #5 – December 06, 2020, 12:07:29 pm

So one last question...if you are using the 120VAC part of the AH...does the water tank need water in it??

Re: Winter Heat

Reply #6 – December 06, 2020, 12:53:02 pm

Mike, you need coolant in the tank portion. This runs throughout the coach to each heater. Then you need the water lines full of water. This doesn't necessarily mean the water tank needs to be full but just all of the lines. I don't think you would want to run either diesel or electric heat without water in the lines.
So yes you can run the electric part of the AH if the coolant is full and the water lines have water in them. Hope this helps.

Re: Winter Heat

Reply #7 – December 06, 2020, 12:57:22 pm

I'd let Rudy chime in on this first. The systems are independent and I don't see how 190 deg coolant is going to hurt the water lines circling the Aqua Hot tank, but that is just my thought.

Re: Winter Heat

Reply #8 – December 06, 2020, 01:48:13 pm

Ran my heat pump at 23 deg this morning on my house. Takes a while. Around 20 is when I turn the emergency electric elements on. Mine will just not heat at that temp

Re: Winter Heat

Reply #9 – December 06, 2020, 03:39:30 pm

We have an oil filled radiator that I will pit in the coach when I want it warmer than outside.
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It is one like this, mechanical off/low/med/high and thermostat switches. Simple. Mine is only 1200 watts max. Med is 600 watts and will keep the LR at 45 when it is in the 20s outside.

You don't need water in the Fresh tank to run the AH but probably in the water lines. When we winterize with RV antifreeze the power to the water pump is disconnected so it cannot pump.

AH on Electric only will keep the LR at 62 and basement at 32 if it is 40 or above. When it gets into the 30s you need diesel. But electric only will keep the LR at 40-45 when it is in the 20s. You can disable the dash fan when using the AH, heats more evenly.

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Re: Winter Heat

Reply #10 – December 06, 2020, 06:15:40 pm

Fresh water lines in this heater are totally separate from heater coolant. So no water or full water matters no. Remember, if water was ever full, it can not be fully drained to empty.

Re: Winter Heat

Reply #11 – December 06, 2020, 06:42:33 pm

Quote from: Rudy – December 06, 2020, 06:15:40 pm

Remember, if water was ever full, it can not be fully drained to empty.

Rudy
I assume you added this to encourage us cold weather folks to us RV antifreeze in the winter?

Re: Winter Heat

Reply #12 – December 06, 2020, 08:00:00 pm

If you do not use RV antifreeze in a coach with an Aqua Hot, turn it off and park it in freezing conditions, please, please call me.

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Re: Winter Heat

Reply #13 – December 06, 2020, 09:35:38 pm

Thanks to everyone...Roger I put that heater in the coach tonight...that will take care of the inside. I bought a 1500 watter to put in the AH bay for the next couple days...

Just so you guys don't think of me as a total wanker...I do have indoor storage for the coach..I am awaiting a new ATS for install that will get here Friday next week...John Fitz and I will install that and I am doing some AH service...when done it will go to nice comfy indoor storage.

Between Roger, Rudy and all the other first responders on my post...I have learned a lot this week...Thanks

Re: Winter Heat

Reply #14 – December 07, 2020, 09:33:33 pm

I have dual Atwood 15,000 BTU ac/heat pumps. For me they do not work below 45° in heat pump mode. And they cycle on and off in a way that's pretty annoying. instead of cycling on for a couple minutes they cycle on for a couple seconds and the air that's blowing out is warmer than the outside temperature but not warm. Between 45 and 55 degrees, works great. But if I really want to heat the coach up the aquahot is the way to go.
Does it matter if I have it on electric element or diesel. It can get way too hot in here. Plus I know that my what days are warm and toasty. Best thing ever. Guy next to me has a propane heater and the noise of that thing is too loud. I just took a walk on the beach and a guy was out there with his generator running all night to run his electric heaters. Talk about noise. The aqua hot is relatively quiet, very energy efficient, and does the job.

Re: Winter Heat

Reply #15 – December 07, 2020, 10:01:06 pm

Quote from: Rudy – December 06, 2020, 06:15:40 pm

Fresh water lines in this heater are totally separate from heater coolant. Remember, if water was ever full, it can not be fully drained to empty.

Too explain a bid father there is about thirty loops of 1/2" od copper tubing rapped around the aqua hot and the loops are vertical around the horizontal Aquahot. Because of this design the aqua hot will not normally drain. To add to this is a tempering valve that actually ties the two loops together. It is virtually impossible to remove all the water. As soon as it gets past the high spot it returns to the next low spot thirty times. Picture shows the top of the aqua hot but will help to show construction somewhat
Scott

Re: Winter Heat

Reply #16 – December 07, 2020, 10:04:09 pm

Picture attempt #2

Re: Winter Heat

Reply #17 – December 07, 2020, 10:28:02 pm

Bottom line ... if there is any chance of freezing conditions, especially if you have an aquahot, drain the water out, blow it out with low pressure air to minimize RV antifreeze mixing with water and fill the water lines, faucets, drains and drain valves with the appropriate RV antifreeze. We did it in October, took an hour and $18 worth of RV Antifreeze. We got to Arkansas in late November and it took an hour to flush, sanitize and fill. It is that or see Rudy for a thorough wallet cleansing.

Re: Winter Heat

Reply #18 – December 07, 2020, 10:55:15 pm

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – December 07, 2020, 10:28:02 pm

Bottom line ... if there is any chance of freezing conditions, especially if you have an aquahot, drain the water out, blow it out with low pressure air to minimize RV antifreeze mixing with water and fill the water lines, faucets, drains and drain valves with the appropriate RV antifreeze. We did it in October, took an hour and $18 worth of RV Antifreeze. We got to Arkansas in late November and it took an hour to flush, sanitize and fill. It is that or see Rudy for a thorough wallet cleansing.

I think I may be misunderstanding your comments so I need to clarify:
I assume that this only holds true if you're letting the rig sit, without the heat on, during freezing temps? As full-timers we've never once winterized our 5th wheel because we're in it running the heat (which also heats the tanks/lines). When we travel without it, I just set the thermostat in the mid 40s and let the heat run if there could be freezing temps while we're gone. Will this strategy work with the Aquahot we're about to own?

Re: Winter Heat

Reply #19 – December 07, 2020, 10:59:40 pm

Keep it above freezing. You be fine .. keep some emergency Rv glycol just in case you need to leave coach unattended
Scott

Re: Winter Heat

Reply #20 – December 08, 2020, 07:25:28 am

And remember there will be heat exchangers in the plumbing bay, thermostat should be near the water pumps/water manifold. So running the aquahot with these heaters running should keep the plumbing and tanks above freezing.

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