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Generator gremlin

So yesterday  running generator to either a good load on it 2 airs, washer, dryer, it started dropping one leg, lost power all together. Reset all breakers worked for a bit then all over again.Now it was hot about 100
 So today cycled all breakers, checked all connection's at the generator, panels, transfer switches. Generator running no load at gen 122.5, at t/fer sw in same, out same. Under load 2 airs micro wave elcetric water heater on 119.6- 118.7 at the breakers in the panel.
What say the electric gurus?
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 1260 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: Generator gremlin

Reply #1 –
On my gen not all the loads on the gen mains were spread correctly to not overload either breaker.

Big bunch on one leg.  Not as many on the other in my case.

I now have a blue seas M2 gauge that actually shows each legs loads. 

As you turn things on you can see the amps change.

The coach did have an led gauge that switched between the legs alternatively but the blue seas shows both live and has the hertz displayed also.  Plus it has adjustable audible alarms if setup.

The powerwatch gauge only showed one legs voltages not both

It took a bit of fishing through the bath cabinet to get both legs

You may need to redistribute the loads as needed.

Oh I replaced the seemingly good breakers with new ones from FOT.  Never tripped again.

Seems they get tired.  Replaced the gen ones also.
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Generator gremlin

Reply #2 –
When you say, " it started dropping one leg, lost power all together. " , does that mean the breaker was tripping or the generator was not putting out power on one leg?  If the breaker was tripping, sounds like a load problem or a bad breaker.  Otherwise, I'd say a problem with the generator.

Rich
Rich and Peggy Bowman
2002 U270 3610 WTFS, build #5939--"Freedom"
2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit 4xe
SMI AirForceOne brake system
PakCanoe 15

Re: Generator gremlin

Reply #3 –
Rich, low voltage and dropping one leg. As I said I'll have to get everything hot with a big load and see what happens. This morning all was working as it should. My Powerwatch meter is off about 6 volts. I almost think it a connection  issue or possibly bad breaker. I did not check the connection at the junction box on the back of the generator compartment as you need to be a snake to get to it, at 240 it's a tight fit.
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 1260 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: Generator gremlin

Reply #4 –
One leg runs the inverted breakers and one leg everything else. So you can run both airs (one leg) and the microwave (inverted leg) with no problem but the water heater is on the non inverted leg which would explain the overload. 2 airs + water heater. Better power distribution usage will help. I think.
1994 U280, Build 4490
Deming, NM.

Re: Generator gremlin

Reply #5 –
Sounds like I need to take an amp probe and see what the load is on each leg. Maybe do some balancing. Of course rarely do we run both airs the washer, dryer (separate) at one time at 100 degrees.
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 1260 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: Generator gremlin

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Twig –
One leg runs the inverted breakers and one leg everything else. So you can run both airs (one leg) and the microwave (inverted leg) with no problem but the water heater is on the non inverted leg which would explain the overload. 2 airs + water heater. Better power distribution usage will help. I think.

The above is also what I think may be your problem.  That or a loose connection or posibly a bad, weak, circuit breaker.  Did any circuit breakers trip? 

What do you mean "So yesterday  running generator to either a good load on it 2 airs, washer, dryer, it started dropping one leg, lost power all together."  Did power go away without triggering circuit breaker?

To prevent electrical overloads, circuit breakers and fuses are designed to trip or blow, stopping the flow of current to the overloaded cable.

By better power distribution, I mean knowing what your loads are, not necessarily adding circuits or changing wiring.  If breaker did trip, it is either doing its job, your problem might be as simple as a bad breaker that has just gotten weak.

Having an easy to read load display from an EMS, such as Progressive or Hughes, with power turn off, let's me monitor and protect my rv from shore and generator issues.

Hughes is out of stock on EMS until approx. June 15, 2020.  From Hughes, "Hi Jack, Thank you for the interest in our product. We are expecting the product to be back in stock hopefully by 6/15/20"
97 U295 40, Build #5040, 6C8.3 325 HP
Oregon Continuous Traveler
Samsung Residential #RF20HFENBSR,
Xantrex SW2012, (3)AGM8D Hse, (2)AGM Grp24 Eng, Victron BMV-712, 1800w Solar 4 LG & 2 Sunpower
Extreme Full Body Pt w/hdlmps, new furn/floor, 4 down Lexus 2004 GX470 AWD curb weight 4,740 lbs
Prev: 1990 Barth, 10L 300 2 yrs; 91&92 Monaco Signature, 10 yrs, 10L C 300 &  6C8.3 300; 1997 ForeT 6C8.3 325 since May 2017.  Employed by Guaranty RV 14+ yrs.  Former VW New Car Dlr/Service Dlr, Sales Mgr, Rv Sales, and Service Adviser from 1968-2017
"Don't criticize what you can't understand" Bob Dylan

Re: Generator gremlin

Reply #7 –
Jack L , no breakers physically tripped.
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 1260 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: Generator gremlin

Reply #8 –
My breakers did not physically "trip" where the levers moved to the off position but disconnected internally somehow.

If not it may be the gen itself?
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Generator gremlin

Reply #9 –
Quote from: bbeane –
So yesterday  running generator to either a good load on it 2 airs, washer, dryer, it started dropping one leg, lost power all together. Reset all breakers worked for a bit then all over again.

You say running generator, it dropped one leg.  Which "leg" did it drop, what did that leg feed?

Do you have two ATS boxes?  What model inverter/charger do you have?  If it did not throw a breaker, could this posibly be a bad ATS?

Two a/c units, washer and dryer may have taken you over your circuit limits, which may have burned the contacts on your ATS.  This is why I appreciate being able to moniter both the gen and shore power with EMS w/display of voltage and amperage on each leg in the circuit between ATS and circuit breakers.  They also report what the fault is.

This my understanding: "You should be able to draw a constant 80% of the rated circut. That means 40 amps per line on a two pole 50 amp circut. At 50 amps the breaker should trip very quickly (I can't remember the specified time)."  This is one of the features of the Progressive PD52 ATS, the neutral is rated for 70 amps.

PD52 240 VAC 50-Amp Automatic Transfer Switch

Could it be an issue with the circuit breakers/cutoff switch mounted on your generator?
97 U295 40, Build #5040, 6C8.3 325 HP
Oregon Continuous Traveler
Samsung Residential #RF20HFENBSR,
Xantrex SW2012, (3)AGM8D Hse, (2)AGM Grp24 Eng, Victron BMV-712, 1800w Solar 4 LG & 2 Sunpower
Extreme Full Body Pt w/hdlmps, new furn/floor, 4 down Lexus 2004 GX470 AWD curb weight 4,740 lbs
Prev: 1990 Barth, 10L 300 2 yrs; 91&92 Monaco Signature, 10 yrs, 10L C 300 &  6C8.3 300; 1997 ForeT 6C8.3 325 since May 2017.  Employed by Guaranty RV 14+ yrs.  Former VW New Car Dlr/Service Dlr, Sales Mgr, Rv Sales, and Service Adviser from 1968-2017
"Don't criticize what you can't understand" Bob Dylan

Re: Generator gremlin

Reply #10 –
Bruce,
When the generator is loaded and voltage sags does your generator 60 cycle hold or does it also sag? That would indicate an rpm loss.
John Duld
1995 U320C SE 40'

Re: Generator gremlin

Reply #11 –
Main gen breakers are 45 amps each.  Gen puts out 83? Amps. 36 amps each leg at 80%?  My aged breakers quickly opened at the 36 amp.  Not readily  visible.  Inside the breaker.  Replaced.  Never opened again



"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Generator gremlin

Reply #12 –
Bob you have a good point like every thing else on a 22 year old coach. A new main breaker on the generator is in order.
John, did not check cycles, doesn't appear to loose any RPM.
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 1260 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: Generator gremlin

Reply #13 –
Up date, found the culprit. The parallax ats 501 load side contactor is wiggey. Plugged in to the pole today surge protector would allow power. Then the time delay in transfer switch closed,  the surge protector kick the power. Took the surge protector out had power to the line side, after a sharp adjustment to the line side contactor things started working. Time for a new transfer switch me thinks.
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 1260 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: Generator gremlin

Reply #14 –
Thanks for the update.
Another bug swatted!
John Duld
1995 U320C SE 40'
 

Re: Generator gremlin

Reply #15 –
Well it's not swatted yet. Got to figure out where we will be for a week or so to get one shipped.
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 1260 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country