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Topic: Torx Head Bulkhead Fasteners? (Read 813 times) previous topic - next topic

Torx Head Bulkhead Fasteners?

I was looking through a bunch of the threads on bulkhead fasteners and repairs and noticed that my fasteners are a lot different than what I've seen. Mine appear to be countersunk torx head but without the angle actually being cut for the countersink. Anyone else with this configuration?
Len Barron
1988 GV36 U280 3208T(250hp)/MT643
1972 Jeep Commando LS2/4L65e
2000 Chevy Express Hightop Campervan
LBZ Duramax /6sp Allison

Re: Torx Head Bulkhead Fasteners?

Reply #1 –
Len,

Your bulkhead bolts are not the factory original Roloks (see photos below).  A previous owner replaced them at some time.

Note: The box of 40 Roloks ($5 each) was purchased from FOT by Don 8 years ago when he was working on his basement structure.

1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Torx Head Bulkhead Fasteners?

Reply #2 –
Can't imagine why you would change them out unless they had to be removed or were broken.
Future Foretravel Owners
2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk
Retired USAF, Retired DOD Civ's
FAA A&P, Indust. Eng., Acft Depot Lvl. Maint.
Larry and Becky Rountree

Re: Torx Head Bulkhead Fasteners?

Reply #3 –
You mean $200 of worthless Roloks, don't you?

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Torx Head Bulkhead Fasteners?

Reply #5 –
Hmmm...well this rig only has 40k miles on it and has been inside stored, every single fastener is as I pictured it so someone did a pretty complete job of changing them out (if that's what happened). Since this is the first year of this configuration I had thought they may have experimented with different fasteners at the factory..
Len Barron
1988 GV36 U280 3208T(250hp)/MT643
1972 Jeep Commando LS2/4L65e
2000 Chevy Express Hightop Campervan
LBZ Duramax /6sp Allison

Re: Torx Head Bulkhead Fasteners?

Reply #6 –
Quote from: len.barron –
Hmmm...well this rig only has 40k miles on it and has been inside stored, every single fastener is as I pictured it so someone did a pretty complete job of changing them out (if that's what happened). Since this is the first year of this configuration I had thought they may have experimented with different fasteners at the factory..
Len,

You may be correct in your assumption.  We know Foretravel is famous for randomly changing the parts they used in production.

It just doesn't seem, to me, very "professional" to use that style (countersunk) bolt head in that application.  I would expect the factory to choose a better suited style of fastener.  That is why I immediately assumed it was done by some non-factory mechanic or a prior owner.

But based on your comment, I could be totally off base.  Perhaps that IS the way your coach was built.  If so, it must be one of a kind!
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Torx Head Bulkhead Fasteners?

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –


 If so, it must be one of a kind!

Another one of those "rare doesn't necessarily mean desirable" situations! LOL!
Len Barron
1988 GV36 U280 3208T(250hp)/MT643
1972 Jeep Commando LS2/4L65e
2000 Chevy Express Hightop Campervan
LBZ Duramax /6sp Allison

Re: Torx Head Bulkhead Fasteners?

Reply #8 –
Common fastener used in truck and trailer decking. My previous 89 U280 had the regular Roloks.
Doug W.
96 36' U270 CSGI #4946
04 Toyota Tacoma 4x4
PNW

Re: Torx Head Bulkhead Fasteners?

Reply #9 –
Common fastener but poorly chosen for this application. It was designed for rapid steel building construction where dry conditions prevail. It's lack of any kind of rust preventative coating along with the lack of rust protection in the metal it is used to fasten are a lose-lose situation. The Rolok along with the bare steel angle iron and rectangular tubing are responsible for the damage found in so many Foretravels and have become it's "Achilles Heel" and damaged not only the pocketbooks of owners but the reputation of the brand.

I have replaced the Roloks on ours that failed with 3/8" 316 stainless but treated grade 8 or hot dipped galvanized are also excellent choices. The untreated steel still must be dealt with care to avoid either treated roads or wet conditions from leaks. Unfortunately, there is no quick and easy access to judge how extensive the corrosion/rust may be. Nice to have an easily removable belly cover so sections could be exposed for inspection.

Unless damaged by rust, a 3/8" fastener can be used from one side to the other and fully torqued without distortion of the rectangular tubing. A nylock nut and washer could also be used at the far end.

Pierce

Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Torx Head Bulkhead Fasteners?

Reply #10 –
Actually, I have found them to be quite useful... just not for my rear bulkhead project. What I have used them for is to quickly tap 5/16"-18 holes. Roloks are trilobular thread forming screws. Drill a 9/32" hole, drive a Rolok in with an impact and you have a threaded hole. Since the the Rolok is a thread forming screw (meaning that it essentially impresses the threads into the hole rather than cutting them as a conventional tap does), the threads have a tighter fit and tend to be self locking. they are quick to use and can be used in many places where clearance for a tap is limited... and they are very fast to use. Worth $5 apiece? Maybe not, but when I ordered them, I was told they were like 79 cents apiece. FOT parts called me back after I placed my order and told me that the price had gone up to $5 apiece! At the time I hadn't fully realized the extent of the necessary repairs, so I said go ahed and send them. In fairness, FOT used to buy these things in bulk, but since they had stopped using Roloks for the bulkhead joints some years before, they no longer bought them in the quantities they had when building over 200 coaches a year, each of which used a few hundred Roloks (17 on each bulkhead, and probably well over a hundred visible from underneath in the basement structure, just as many through the subfloor and in many other places throughout the coach. They are grade 5 equivalent and quick to install, so attractive to volume production. Their  Achilles heel when used for the bulkhead is that the serrated flange head leaves a pathway for water to get in. I used ARP stainless steel bolts which at 180,000 PSI tensile strength, are higher than grade 8 when I repaired the rear bulkhead and rebuilt much of the basement structure.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-623-4000?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=%2barp+%2b623-4000&utm_content=ARP&utm_campaign=Part+Number+Ad+Groups

 Don
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
You'll have to ask Don about that!  8)
The selected media item is not currently available.
Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Torx Head Bulkhead Fasteners?

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Don & Tys –
What I have used them for is to quickly tap 5/16"-18 holes.
Does using a Rolok one time for that purpose ruin the bolt?  Or can they be used as a "quick tap" multiple times with the same result?
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Torx Head Bulkhead Fasteners?

Reply #12 –
Don,

Yes, they can be very useful but due to the fact that they rust and have no inherent corrosion protection, are not suitable for this application. When I removed the Roloks that failed, they were very rusty.

While you support Roloks at the start of your post, by the time we get to the last telling sentence, I notice you have gone to stainless steel bolts for your repair of the rear bulkhead and basement structure.

Stainless steel fasteners are so inexpensive when you buy in bulk (like 50), I can't see why they were not OEM. And you really only need 316 stainless as a couple of 3/8" bolts could lift the entire coach. 316 stainless is the standard the boating industry uses as it can be exposed to salt water 24/7 and still look great years later.

If the short 3-1/2" distance is just drilled and a nut and washer are installed on the opposite end, there is no need for any tapping, just installation. This is what an expensive motorhome should be built like instead of using a mass production fastener used for fair weather steel buildings. As it is, all of our coaches with bulkheads are time bombs just waiting for rust to ruin our days.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Torx Head Bulkhead Fasteners?

Reply #13 –
Pierce,
Quote
Actually, I have found them to be quite useful... just not for my rear bulkhead project.
;D

The ARP 300 series is overkill, but I tend to do that after being hit with something as big as that project was... I ordered the Roloks from FOT before I knew the extent of the damage and the lengths to which I would have to go through to put it right. I welded nuts on the back side of the tubing so that I could remove the ARP bolts for inspection without opening the bottom up. So far so good after 7 plus years...
Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart –
Don,

While you support Roloks at the start of your post, by the time we get to the last telling sentence, I notice you have gone to stainless steel bolts for your repair of the rear bulkhead and basement structure. 

Pierce
The selected media item is not currently available.
Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Torx Head Bulkhead Fasteners?

Reply #14 –
Don,

I know you did excellent work in very trying conditions. Welding the nut on the backside of the tubing is what should have been done in the first place at the factory and very smart of you to have foreseen future maintenance inspections. Totally eliminates having to thread on not only one wall but both walls of the tubing.

So, when the basement structure was built, nuts should have been welded on the backside everywhere access is limited. Then spray galvanized and rust resistant paint used to coat everything. This is craftsmanship not mass production SOB 10 year lifespan RVs.

I have not always designed HO249 sight reduction forms and other crazy ventures but also owned a DOT compliance shop where we used hundreds of feet of steel tubing, a couple of spools of wire and a tank of CO2 every month. I always used stainless fasteners in all of the door beams and bumper compliance steel reinforcements. For anyone with a bulkhead problem, learning to use a wire feed welder is a hundred times easier that gas welding. Just a bunch of simple tools needed with a metal cutting band saw thrown in and you can build a Brooklyn Bridge.  Perhaps a little of an overstatement about the bridge.

Pierce

Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Torx Head Bulkhead Fasteners?

Reply #15 –
After the repairs are done there is a proven coating used that penetrates and coats painted and non-painted metals and prevents corrosion. I would tape and paper any moving parts (hinges, bell-cranks, ect) and electrical wiring to prevent over-spray.
Chemetall Ardrox Corrosion Inhibitor AV30 Light Brown, 1 L | Chemetall US
Future Foretravel Owners
2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk
Retired USAF, Retired DOD Civ's
FAA A&P, Indust. Eng., Acft Depot Lvl. Maint.
Larry and Becky Rountree

Re: Torx Head Bulkhead Fasteners?

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
Does using a Rolok one time for that purpose ruin the bolt?  Or can they be used as a "quick tap" multiple times with the same result?
Chuck,
They do wear after a bit, but if the material isn't too thick, you can drill tons of holes. Say with ⅛" mild steel (the thickness of the walls of the transverse bulkhead tubing), you could probably tap 25 plus holes with a single Rolok. It made installing my FASS lift pump much easier. I installed it on the passenger side of the main engine carriage. Drilling the 9/32" hole while leaning over the bed platform was hard enough. That tubing has walls at least ⅜" thick... Driving in the Roloks with an impact was a cinch. Followed it up with a thread chaser to make it easy to start by hand. The thread chaser isn't necessary, but doesn't hurt. The coach has the 5/16" roloks in two lengths, the 2 ½" at the bulkheads and many other places. There is also a shorter version (1") used on the coach that is used elsewhere. Makes a nice shorty tap.

Don
The selected media item is not currently available.
Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson
 

Re: Torx Head Bulkhead Fasteners?

Reply #17 –
Being a member of this forum is good for adjusting my ego.
It actually shows me that on the practical side of repairs I am fairly low on the totem pole.
I can program and operate my CNC machine for woodworking, though.

Regards

Klaus



The world is not interested in the storms you encountered, but whether or not you brought in the ship.
Raul Armesto

2003 U 320 4020 Unit 6145