7 year battery installation

Topic: 7 year battery installation (Read 892 times) previous topic - next topic

7 year battery installation

October 23, 2020, 12:58:48 am

I had read this info before long ago but had not seen personal results.

I noticed in passing that their was no protective coating or sprays on my battery terminals.

When ordering my new batteries I asked my guru buddy why he had not protected the terminals.

His response was "mk gels never outgas or leak at the posts. Never. No corrosion.

Mine has none in seven years use. Interesting.

Here's why:

Exclusive Forged Posts and Bushings
"Black" posts and oxygen-contaminated batteries are often due to porous lead terminal posts. A battery can lose its critical pressure through tiny pores and fissures in the battery terminals. Pressure
loss is harmful to the battery and is evident by black posts, which are caused by sulfuric acid fumes escaping from the battery through and around the lead posts and bushings. These fumes can cause corrosion and can damage sensitive electronic equipment.
These pores and fissures are caused by the industry's method of casting posts and bushings. This method produces tiny air pockets and paths which allow corrosive gas to escape, causing life shorten- ing depressurization, cell dry-out and corrosion damage.
To eliminate this problem, we use forged terminal posts and bushings, which are completely solid with absolutely no porosity. The benefit is longer life, better performance and no leakage of corrosive gas...especially important when installed in or near sensitive electronic equipment.

I do not have any connection or axe to grind here about batteries, just my personal observation of a long term use item.

He mentioned most flooded cell and agm's corrode the connections from leakage around the posts

The Lexus owners website mentioned that the oem Panasonic battery had no corrosion but cheaper replacements did corrode

Re: 7 year battery installation

Reply #1 – October 23, 2020, 01:07:49 am

Bob,

Good point about the battery corrosion. I keep looking at our sealed AGMs and have noticed through the years that the rodents have brought a lot of acorns up on top but no corrosion on the small terminals. They can be installed in every position except upside down. So, I just hose the stuff off the top and look again in a few months.

Pierce

Re: 7 year battery installation

Reply #2 – October 23, 2020, 10:41:02 am

The batteries in my coach were there when I bought it. Lifeline AGM's dated 2013 and no corrosion at all.

Re: 7 year battery installation

Reply #3 – October 23, 2020, 11:41:27 am

Wet Napa's, 3 years, no corrosion.

I keep them floating at 13.01-13.05

They do go to 14.0+ on solar on occasion.

Haven't added any water yet.

Chris

Re: 7 year battery installation

Reply #4 – October 23, 2020, 11:56:28 am

Lifeline also uses forged posts that have a copper component. High quality military/airplane grade product.

My guru buddy used to use them. He had repeated issues with Lifeline warranting batteries used per their directions.

He mentioned bulging cases trying to equalize them. He hand carried them into Lifeline personally and he mentioned they took a day per battery to test them. Then denied his warranty claims because he bulged the cases excessively per their opinion. He did it exactly how their manual says.

He finally gave up and switched to mk gels. No equalization needed or possible.

But he mentioned that the Lifelines were for sure the best quality AGM's made.

250 amp hours vs 225 in a gel was nice also.

Craneman I am local sort of in a so cal way and if you wanted to borrow my three battery test rig/load bank I would lend it out to you as I am done testing my three batteries. Let me know if you are interested. Trust but verify.

I am sure based on Lifelines test time long ago for my buddy that they use something similar in their shop to test their batteries at a c20 rate. 12.5 amps per hour roughly. For 10 hours. Seems they may have had only a single load bank back then hence the one day per battery. That kept my buddies bay filled up too long and cost him money.

Would like to see your results just for the info.

If yours need equalization you would be able to see any differences before or after if you were interested

Re: 7 year battery installation

Reply #5 – October 23, 2020, 12:00:53 pm

Flooded cells in a non vented compartment can be dangerous as you know. Your low float voltage should prevent outgassing.

Had people put mineral oil in each cell to lower water loss.

Too many days playing with flooded cells long ago.

Re: 7 year battery installation

Reply #6 – October 23, 2020, 02:13:20 pm

Thanks Bob, Testing them wouldn't change my situation. As long as we can watch tv or discs until 10:00pm and keep the residential refrigerator going all night and still have 12.3 in the morning, I will keep using them. When they no longer meet our demands O'reilly's AGM's will be purchased. Everyone's situation is different at 76 years old I would never need to pay more than two sets of them and probably the next would be the last. With discounts around $1,300 inc. tax for 3 of them, gel or lithium would not pay back in my lifetime and as far as adding to the value of the coach never going to recoup that way either.

Re: 7 year battery installation

Reply #7 – October 23, 2020, 11:36:39 pm

Craneman, I saw your post and had to chime in. I've reached a similar conclusion to yours, with O'Reilly AGMs in my basement. I also came close to going the gell route with the deeper discharge capabilities or the lifepo4 choice with their amazing characteristics. And Bob, thank you for your recent posts and congrats on the MKs

We all have different needs, budgets, and past experiences, so thank goodness we have these choices and valuable information available on this forum and elsewhere.

That being said, I had an uncle born in 1899 in London, and lost him in 2003, living to 104. He was healthy and active till he past. He bought his last new car at 95. I'm just throwing in we may all, and I hope all, go past our current expectations with these wonderful FT rvs. May all continue to enjoy, and stay healthy and safe.

Re: 7 year battery installation

Reply #8 – October 24, 2020, 12:53:06 am

I just want to have the same experience as much as I can as the original owner did for a fraction of the money.

I did the same thing with every used coach I sold when I was a Foretravel sales manager.

Old habits are hard to break I guess. I never cut a corner for a customer. I charged them fairly and gave them a good product.

So many constant problems with batteries long ago that not buying the better ones would cost me a lot of lost sleep.

Not for the faint of wallet.

If you read the literature it says that it takes 60% of the gen or shoreline run time to get from 50% SOC to 90% SOC and 40% of the run time to get from 90 to 100%.

The Freedom 25's manual suggests running the batteries from 50 to 85% versus trying to charge to 100%.

I realize most here have solar that will top their batteries off most every days.

Remember I was the first manager anywhere that I know of to equipe every coach I sold with a solar panel to keep the batteries up in storage in 1986.

I would feel guilty short cycling non lifeline AGM's and measuring a capacity loss over time from short cycling and not be able to fix it.

My problem like I told DSD today is that I know. No excuses.

Very few are as a#$l retentive as I am. My curse. Not recommended.

Buy anything I sell used. I rebuild things then sell them.

I always did better selling demonstrably near perfect system wise used products.

Most buyers would rather buy a turn key mechanical coach. Sold hundreds.

Oem grade always made me more money and always had more satisfied customers

My storage area outdoors has a fairly low sun angle as we approach winter solstice. Plus add in city dirt on my two panels. Marginal charging at that time.

Versus slanting panels and/or additional panels the extra cost for the gels was a reasonable alternative.

Re: 7 year battery installation

Reply #9 – October 25, 2020, 10:49:16 am

I've had a couple sets of Deka wet cells in a ventilated box for the last 10 years. Never once even a hint of corrosion.

see ya
ken

Re: 7 year battery installation

Reply #10 – October 25, 2020, 10:58:57 am

Unplugged the coach yesterday at 2:00pm. Now have 12.3 at 7:45am residential fridge but no television running. Will see when it gets to 12.2 on my 7 year old Lifeline AGM's. All clouds here one controller @ 9 watts second controller @ 8 watts.

Re: 7 year battery installation

Reply #11 – October 25, 2020, 12:13:13 pm

No load for 24 hours voltage would tell more.

12.3 seems to exceed the 50% discharge for long life.

With normal cabling taking from the ends of the string for the positive and negative leads respectively every so often battery rotation would help. Sounds easy wrestling 160 pound batteries around. Sure.

Part of the reason I am replacing mine is to have all similar terminals for rotation reasons.

Same as having the fancy test rig. An annual test would be prudent.

The three test rigs I made up could be combined at the ends of the strings and pull together 34.5 amps to measure the banks total capacity.

If over time it lowers then the individual battery's could be tested and if the ends show any difference maybe rotate them to equalize the wear.

Some reupholster furniture. Alter the floorplans. Paint their coach or change the graphics.

I prefer to perfect the coaches systems as much as possible.

Batteries tomorrow. Pt100 next. AGS-N after that. Then the 10 button thermostat and the ac board changes to integrate everything and automate the HVAC system to be dual setback.

Then more solar. It's an expensive hobby as the Cummins service writer told me long ago

Re: 7 year battery installation

Reply #12 – October 25, 2020, 12:23:14 pm

Now up to 12.5 and climbing, 55 watts and 50 watts on the controllers under full clouds. Tomorrow is projected to be full sun and should top the batteries off. If not I will bring out the long cord and plug into my 50 amp until we leave on the 4th.

Re: 7 year battery installation

Reply #13 – October 25, 2020, 05:10:34 pm

I've been using wet cells for both House and Start batteries for the past 30 years. I always start with clean terminals and cable ends, then I triple coat them with clear lacquer spray. As long as the coating does not get compromised, the terminals have not corroded.

Re: 7 year battery installation

Reply #14 – October 25, 2020, 07:08:25 pm

Your coaches battery bay has a fiberglass cover over your 3 batteries that vents to the outside.

Unicoaches were designed for sealed normally non venting batteries some located in interior non available compartments.

What may work for a U280 or U300 May be not as good in a 270,295 or 320.

Plus the Unicoaches tend to have more power in and out of their batteries so gassing would be more of a probability

Re: 7 year battery installation

Reply #15 – October 25, 2020, 08:00:30 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – October 25, 2020, 07:08:25 pm

Your coaches battery bay has a fiberglass cover over your 3 batteries that vents to the outside.

Unicoaches were designed for sealed normally non venting batteries some located in interior non available compartments.

What may work for a U280 or U300 May be not as good in a 270,295 or 320.

Plus the Unicoaches tend to have more power in and out of their batteries so gassing would be more of a probability

You might look at your battery compartment again Bob.

Our 97 U295 has a vented battery compartment. If my memory serves me well, they all had vented compartments. Probably required by law. Certainly RVIA. Probably for the heat.

Love my wet cell's, if you manage them properly, they will work fine. We mostly dry camp, and they do all I want.

$600.00 tax included OTD for 3 including 24 mo. replacement, I can buy a bunch of them, and actually these will probably last as long as we own the coach.

Chris

Re: 7 year battery installation

Reply #16 – October 25, 2020, 09:21:16 pm

Now that you fixed the motor do you want to bet? I am on my 8th year.

Re: 7 year battery installation

Reply #17 – October 25, 2020, 10:08:57 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – October 25, 2020, 09:21:16 pm

Now that you fixed the motor do you want to bet? I am on my 8th year.

Wait, what? you said 7 years, now it's 8?

LOL, I'll let you know in another 4 years.

Previous set were 8 yrs old, still working fine, just a little weak, pretty good considering the PO let them sit dead several times.

Did you go look at your battery compartment venting?

Re: 7 year battery installation

Reply #18 – October 25, 2020, 10:14:06 pm

My '99 has a vent under the bottom 2 batteries.

Re: 7 year battery installation

Reply #19 – October 25, 2020, 10:22:00 pm

Quote from: craneman – October 25, 2020, 10:14:06 pm

My '99 has a vent under the bottom 2 batteries.

Chuck

It probably has the two 3" ABS pipes running from the front wheel well too. Kinda flow through deal. Pretty trick

Pretty sure it's for fuel tank cap and spillage venting too.

Chris

Re: 7 year battery installation

Reply #20 – October 25, 2020, 10:45:49 pm

Owned the coach for 8 plus was my comment.

If I had had the same terminals on all three batteries to equalize the charge and discharge rates better I could have gotten 10 to 12 years out of the house gels just like the mk engineer told me from his communication with many Foretravel owners.

Without considering money what batteries would you all use?

I walk by the control panel and the xantrex pro power gauge a lot to compare the voltage and amp hours drawn.

Old habit from long ago with battery boiler chargers and flooded cells. Paranoid with good reason.

Plus we really want quiet in out dry camp remote areas.

Or do I spend a lot more money for lots of solar?

Requires a roof recoat as its chalky now. One thing leads to another.

We have a lot of cloudy days 1 mile from the ocean. Hard to charge with roof panels and low sun angle close to solstice.

Have to have batteries that can stand short cycling the best.

My guru buddy has had this happen before on other coaches in the area.

I like and enjoy nice stuff. You all have spent less. That's nice. Not my motivation.

I rv'ed and enjoyed countless high line new or near new nice coaches and have a trained vivid memory of all of them.

Re: 7 year battery installation

Reply #21 – October 25, 2020, 11:54:19 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – October 25, 2020, 10:45:49 pm

Owned the coach for 8 plus was my comment.

If I had had the same terminals on all three batteries to equalize the charge and discharge rates better I could have gotten 10 to 12 years out of the house gels just like the mk engineer told me from his communication with many Foretravel owners.

Without considering money what batteries would you all use?

I walk by the control panel and the xantrex pro power gauge a lot to compare the voltage and amp hours drawn.

Old habit from long ago with battery boiler chargers and flooded cells. Paranoid with good reason.

Plus we really want quiet in out dry camp remote areas.

Or do I spend a lot more money for lots of solar?

Requires a roof recoat as its chalky now. One thing leads to another.

We have a lot of cloudy days 1 mile from the ocean. Hard to charge with roof panels and low sun angle close to solstice.

Have to have batteries that can stand short cycling the best.

My guru buddy has had this happen before on other coaches in the area.

I like and enjoy nice stuff. You all have spent less. That's nice. Not my motivation.

I rv'ed and enjoyed countless high line new or near new nice coaches and have a trained vivid memory of all of them.

Previous owner had the inverter rebuilt and upgraded.Works fine, adjustable, has never over charged the batts.

475 watt solar already on it.

$600.00 battery investment total.

4 years use so far.

So list all the cost for the razoo batts, inverter, alternator, isolater. Just not worth it to me, when what I have works awesome.

You like spending money on your coach, that is awesome. I am glad you enjoy it.But just because we don't line up with all your upgrades, doesn't mean ours doesn't work the way we want them to.

Far less investment, just as much joy.

Your guru buddy is costing you money.

CW

Re: 7 year battery installation

Reply #22 – October 26, 2020, 02:35:28 pm

Notice the other thread where the owner is asking on how to test his still working 17 year old oem mk gel batteries?

Any other battery loses capacity not being totally charged back to 100% every time.

Combiner. All new coaches come with auto combiners.

You and I live in shaky town. When,not if, our coaches systems become a necessity not a pleasure for god knows how long I personally prefer to have the best possible parts in the best possible condition.

I calculate that I have around 300 hours run time on the gen. If my systems capacities are reduced that reduces that.

Different motivation. Different needs, different wants. Different jones to have 100% condition top parts.

If you leave the money out would you not install the better parts?

Remember I am used to these being $200k new coaches. In many ways they still are.

Hard to forgot all those days where I sold, fixed and used hundreds of different high line Motorhomes and all the issues that showed up.

He is not spending my money. I am. Happily.

It pleases me to have good things. Never was happy saving money by taking less quality anything.

Just me. A personal decision I made long ago.

As I said I have the disadvantage of knowing exactly how these were new.

Best of everything. So I continue that exactly.

I sold hundreds of coaches and never had an issue getting top dollar ever.

I could demonstrate everything in the prospective coach was 100 correct or better of new.

A customer that points at something not correct or in poor condition cost me $5k or more selling price.

I learned not to give them any reason to ask for a better price.

In between my personal enjoyment is increased to have a better driving, better condition, safer and a quieter dry camp coach.

My quote to countless customers "you pay for everyone of your pleasures. If you did not pay as much it probably was not as much fun wasn't it?

Some laughed. Most got thoughtful. Almost all paid more for better.

The hard core inexpensive customers I sometimes sent down the road to my competitors as over the long run their whining was not worth it to me. Plus the motorcade coach owners local chapter were friends over time and negative people or poor equipment installed by Foretravel or my store on used Foretravels would cost me dearly in future business.

If I get $5 to $10k more than most selling a similar coach all the money came back plus did it not?

I as a manager would and did pay top dollar for nice coaches. Happy to buy them.

Easy to feature, benefit sell.

I have spent around $40k on our coach in 8 years and 40k miles. Buck a mile.

As gracerace learned the way out is to drive the money out of the coach.

I had new customers that cost them $10 a mile. Told them they should have driven it more.

Some here are at 10 cents a mile.

Over time as I drive the good out of our coach or desperately need a good survival center the investment hopefully will return.

Not a price buyer as I have said

Re: 7 year battery installation

Reply #23 – October 26, 2020, 03:08:30 pm

Bob
I live in Idaho, you live in California, specifically So. Cal.. The mentality is completely different here.One of the biggest reason's I moved here 28 yrs ago.

The bigger the nut to crack, the easier to get behind. I chose to make the nut much smaller. We are happier with less, don't have to drive a Tesla to be happy.Love my I phone 7. Old Suburu's are in the highest demand here. Except for our 15' Dart, all our 9 vehicles are old and high mileage. I like it that way.

God help me if I 'am still alive in 17 yrs, or even own the coach in another 5 yrs. I get bored easy.

Price (money) wasn't an issue buying batteries. I did the research, and could not justify razoo batteries for our coach. Others do which is fine for them.

For me, I just can't see dumping $40K in a 23 yrs old coach. If it breaks I'll fix it. Some little dodad that catches my eye, and it's cheap, probably will buy it and put it on.

It always starts, hasn't stranded me, best driving MoHo I ever owned. Plenty of power, shocked by the great mileage. Plays satellite 24/7 dry camping for weeks at a time. Makes coffee, runs the blow drier with no gen set (which has 828 hrs now, had 810 when I bought it, which most were the air con at the drags).

What's good for me, is not necessarily good for you, and visa versa. But that's what makes the world go round. We both have a smile, mine just cost less.

CW

Re: 7 year battery installation

Reply #24 – October 26, 2020, 03:48:40 pm

You have an advantage. Idaho. If the stuff hits the fan you are ok.

We, as you know, have six lanes in and out of here and 30 million people.

You are not getting out of here. Almost Every decision we have made for the last 20 years revolves around that fact.

"You can check out but you can never leave" is true for us.

We have a rebuilt structurally 1 story small house in a beautiful location on a hill 1 mile from the beach with sunsets views straight out of the back.

Gods gift of weather.

We are at the south extreme end of the la Orange County megacity. Behind us is wilderness and the marine base. Deer in the hills here.

But this reality added $150k over 20 years in mods, equipment, supplies, vehicles to be able to address future possibilities.

I keep 2 pwc watercraft here that can go 120 miles each plus racks and added tanks to double that range if wanted.

Plus a rebuilt giant 4x4 truck.

And another place in Summerlin in Las Vegas. All redone.

Be prepared. We are both Virgo analyzing people.

Coach can power our house coming up. Can park sideways in our driveway.

Was cold this morning 50 degrees. Now it's 70.

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