Next Task - generator box insulation

Topic: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions (Read 1076 times) previous topic - next topic

Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

November 30, 2020, 07:05:17 pm

So it looks like time.

How does the drawer come out? A post says it just pulls out. A post says to remove two rear bolts. A post says lift up the front slightly to remove. Can you tell from my photo how it works?

I disconnect the exhaust, disconnect and label two fuel lines, disconnect and label two coolant lines. Should I expect the wiring to be long enough to pull the generator out and to the side without disconnecting?

I plan to switch the coach engine to OAT. Can I use it in the generator?

Is the wiring box located in the radiator compartment stock or a mod? Why is it there?

I would like to repaint the drawer. I see one lift ring on the generator, to the right. Is there another lift ring I haven't seen yet? I could use them to lift the generator off the freed drawer.

The underside of the generator is covered by a plastic sheet held up by a metal frame? Is this at all structural? Can I remove it safely while the generator is in?

Thanks!

Re: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

Reply #1 – November 30, 2020, 07:20:34 pm

The two bolts are on each side of the slide. I just removed them and pull the generator out. I don't disconnect anything else.
The rubber belting underneath is easy to remove off the metal frame. The metal box is the control panel for the generator.
I use the same antifreeze and engine oil in the gen and the Cummins.

Re: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

Reply #2 – November 30, 2020, 07:30:21 pm

Quote from: oldguy – November 30, 2020, 07:20:34 pm

The two bolts are on each side of the slide. I just removed them and pull the generator out. I don't disconnect anything else.
The rubber belting underneath is easy to remove off the metal frame. The metal box is the control panel for the generator.
I use the same antifreeze and engine oil in the gen and the Cummins.

You answered the question about the slide as I asked it. What I meant to ask is "Once the two bolts are removed and the slide is pulled forward, is there an additional step to free the slide completely from the coach."

Thanks!

Re: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

Reply #3 – November 30, 2020, 07:32:15 pm

In order to change the oil, etc. you remove the 2 bolts like oldguy said then just pull from the handle and it slides out enough to get to the oil plug.
If you need to access the rear side of the engine then you need to undo the 2 fuel lines (mark them first on both ends) then it'll pull out a few more inches. The bottom rubber panel is just for sound reduction, nothing structural. Not sure what else is required to remove the slide completely. The exhaust for sure and the electrical should have plugs to disconnect but with the box in the side basement not sure how they are connected.
The metal box on top of the generator is OEM for the voltage regulator, relays, ES52 controller,switches, etc. Obviously a PO moved some of that to the side basement where the fan is. I did that to mine this summer. It's almost impossible to work on anything inside of the box on top of generator.

Re: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

Reply #4 – November 30, 2020, 07:36:21 pm

That would be a big job. Everything would have to be disconnected. I reinsulated the generator by only pulling it out and removing the belting.

Re: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

Reply #5 – November 30, 2020, 07:42:29 pm

The voltage regulator and ES52 module was recommended to be moved (over by the remote fan) due to being shook apart during generator start up where it was OEM on top of the generator. Some were done at the factory, some by owners, and some are still in the OEM place. Neither place is a good spot to troubleshoot.

Mike

Re: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

Reply #6 – November 30, 2020, 08:21:50 pm

That belting and frame under the generator are not structural. There 2 3/8 bolts with nuts at the outer edges use9/16 wrench. The 2 at the rear take a 1/2 inch socket and they screw out of the frame. With this out of the way you will be able to access the bolts that hold the slide rails to the coach framework.

Re: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

Reply #7 – November 30, 2020, 08:27:30 pm

Matt, if you are pulling generator completely out you will have to disconnect the 2 radiator hoses also. Before you pull generator you might want to take the bottom panel off and check if the radiator hoses are pushed up against exhaust pipe. My exhaust pipe was wrapped with fiberglass but the radiator hose was pushing so hard against the pipe there was fiberglass cloth imprinted in the hoses
I rerouted the hose when I went back together
Chris

Re: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

Reply #8 – November 30, 2020, 08:30:51 pm

Quote from: oldguy – November 30, 2020, 07:36:21 pm

That would be a big job. Everything would have to be disconnected. I reinsulated the generator by only pulling it out and removing the belting.

The way I envision this is blocking the coach, removing the belting, pulling the slide out to its normal extension, and sitting on the ground with my head and shoulders in the cavity where the generator normally sits. Is that correct?

Re: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

Reply #9 – November 30, 2020, 08:32:07 pm

Yes that works well

Re: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

Reply #10 – November 30, 2020, 08:32:26 pm

Quote from: Chris m lang – November 30, 2020, 08:27:30 pm

... you might want to take the bottom panel off and check if the radiator hoses are pushed up against exhaust pipe.
Chris

I will! Thanks!

Re: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

Reply #11 – November 30, 2020, 08:43:30 pm

Matt,

While you are in there with all the insulation off look at the sheet metal panel on the drivers side. On some coaches there is a removable panel that is there to get to the steering sector. If your coach has that panel now would be a good time to mark it on the new insulation (with a magic marker) so you will have some reference as to where it is located in case you have to pull the sector. You may need to right you a note and put it in your wallet so you can remember what you did when you need this down the road.

Mike

Re: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

Reply #12 – November 30, 2020, 09:00:52 pm

Matt,

I just had another thought about that removeable panel. I was helping another member and his panel was there but someone put the screws in backwards. They were in there in such a manner that you would need to remove the sector before you could remove the panel. If you find this to be the case now would be a good time to back the screws out with a small pair of slip joint pliers and put them in so you can remove that panel without too much trouble. If that panel isn't there for some reason it would be if it was mine before I put the insulation back on.

Mike

Re: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

Reply #13 – November 30, 2020, 09:06:08 pm

Quote from: Pamela & Mike – November 30, 2020, 08:43:30 pm

Matt,

While you are in there with all the insulation off look at the sheet metal panel on the drivers side. On some coaches there is a removable panel that is there to get to the steering sector. If your coach has that panel now would be a good time to mark it on the new insulation (with a magic marker) so you will have some reference as to where it is located in case you have to pull the sector. You may need to right you a note and put it in your wallet so you can remember what you did when you need this down the road.

Mike

Great idea! I will mark the spot, and make notes in my repair log for later reference!

Matt B

Re: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

Reply #14 – November 30, 2020, 09:35:47 pm

We put our double-foil covered high temp insulation OVER existing insulation in gen & engine compartments. Why not take advantage of the expensive insulation manufacturer put in by keeping it safe under new coverings.

New holding up just fine after many years.

Re: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

Reply #15 – November 30, 2020, 10:08:23 pm

Quote from: oldmattb – November 30, 2020, 08:30:51 pm

The way I envision this is blocking the coach, removing the belting, pulling the slide out to its normal extension, and sitting on the ground with my head and shoulders in the cavity where the generator normally sits. Is that correct?

Matt,

That is precisely what I did a few months ago. It worked out great.

By the way, that frame with the belting is rather heavy. It was not a problem when I dropped it but putting it back on by myself was a struggle. I eventually ended up using a floor jack to hold up the rear part of the frame while I bolted the front part back on.

Richard

Re: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

Reply #16 – November 30, 2020, 10:19:32 pm

Quote from: oldmattb – November 30, 2020, 07:05:17 pm

So it looks like time.

How does the drawer come out? A post says it just pulls out. A post says to remove two rear bolts. A post says lift up the front slightly to remove. Can you tell from my photo how it works?

I disconnect the exhaust, disconnect and label two fuel lines, disconnect and label two coolant lines. Should I expect the wiring to be long enough to pull the generator out and to the side without disconnecting?

I plan to switch the coach engine to OAT. Can I use it in the generator?

Is the wiring box located in the radiator compartment stock or a mod? Why is it there?

I would like to repaint the drawer. I see one lift ring on the generator, to the right. Is there another lift ring I haven't seen yet? I could use them to lift the generator off the freed drawer.

The underside of the generator is covered by a plastic sheet held up by a metal frame? Is this at all structural? Can I remove it safely while the generator is in?

Thanks!

I took the long route and pulled the genny out, I used the fork lift attachment on my tractor after disconnecting the exhaust, radiator hoses and the electric. I lifted under the slide out tray, tilted the front up a little and it came right out. Generator Box Reconditioned

Re: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

Reply #17 – November 30, 2020, 11:19:40 pm

I don't have a forklift, but I bought a Harbor Freight hydraulic lift table today. First use will be for the generator, if I do remove it. It was also a long-term solution. I bought three trees to plant in the yard, and it was tough getting them out of the bed of the truck. Moving the trees, moving the RV wheels when I remove them, taking a flat to the tire store, moving full gas cans, bags of soil and concrete mix... it was time to start being nicer to my back.

https://www.harborfreight.com/500-lbs-capacity-hydraulic-table-cart-61405.html

Re: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

Reply #18 – November 30, 2020, 11:21:40 pm

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – November 30, 2020, 09:35:47 pm

We put our double-foil covered high temp insulation OVER existing insulation in gen & engine compartments. Why not take advantage of the expensive insulation manufacturer put in by keeping it safe under new coverings.

New holding up just fine after many years.

Great idea. I am not sure there is enough of the old one left. Pieces have fallen off, and the rest just crumbles if I touch it. I will investigate.

Re: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

Reply #19 – December 03, 2020, 02:55:51 pm

Update

The new insulation is in the generator box. The sides were foam only, the top and back were foam over a black board, maybe 1/2 inch thick. I left the board in place, and installed the new insulation over it. I am waiting for some 300-degree metal tape to finish it out. It is tough getting the edges to match up while peeling the backing, cutting holes for the wires, etc. I ended up with some 1/2 inch gaps that I filled with strips of the insulation - the tape will hold it all together.

I elected not to remove the generator. The additional work for the additional convenience seemed a trade off. Note, chassis is blocked. I am 6-foot and 220 pounds. It is negative-fun work, but doable. I am cleaning up the power and ground wires while I am in there. Painting the tray - I could get to all of it with a brush. I will continue to admire those "remove-sandblast-powder coat" jobs.

I found the source of a banging noise when the generator started. The exhaust hose in the compartment sat to the driver side of the metal insulation plate. It had burned/worn through the insulation, so it was hitting a bare spot on the metal enclosure when the generator kicked. Moving the plate over should do the trick.

I reversed the screws on the steering box access plate in case.

The engine cavity is mostly scraped off as well. More supplies on the way.

Re: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

Reply #20 – December 05, 2020, 06:19:27 am

That much movement on starting suggests that the generator mounts are shot-time to replace them.

Re: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

Reply #21 – December 05, 2020, 01:49:41 pm

Possible and check the bottom of the mounts as you can't see the damage from the top. The poor design using a wire to hold the flex exhaust pipe in place allows even a generator with good mounts to have the flex pipe burn through the black insulation and start to burn the plywood.

The rubber generator mounts are cheap with the postage a big percent of the total. Think I paid about $71 delivered for all four.

From my old post: They just sent an email confirming my order. Tech Products | 2215 Lyons Road Miamisburg, OH 45342 Phone: 937-438-1100

Pierce

Re: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

Reply #22 – December 05, 2020, 03:13:16 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – December 05, 2020, 01:49:41 pm

Possible and check the bottom of the mounts as you can't see the damage from the top. The poor design using a wire to hold the flex exhaust pipe in place allows even a generator with good mounts to have the flex pipe burn through the black insulation and start to burn the plywood.

The rubber generator mounts are cheap with the postage a big percent of the total. Think I paid about $71 delivered for all four.

From my old post: They just sent an email confirming my order. Tech Products | 2215 Lyons Road Miamisburg, OH 45342 Phone: 937-438-1100

Pierce

My coach uses a different style of mount. Best price I found was $40 each. A total of $100 was my resistance point for replacement. I bought some washers to add underneath the nuts that hold the generator base to the mounts. My thinking is that will slightly increase the loading of the mount, making it a little less flexible. (The bolts go through the mount and the generator base.)

I see no evidence of a wire holding the exhaust. It appears to be metal flex pipe, and is wrapped with asbestos-looking woven wrap. What exactly did the wire do? Maybe mine is missing. There is no plywood on the inside of the box. It is galvanized sheet steel. The coach is new to me, so I don't know if these features are changes and improvements by prior owners.

The root of the problem could be a missing tether wire, or the exhaust pipe just being too close to the box. The initial motivation was to replace the insulation - running a finger across it would result in a tablespoon of black gritty dust.

Re: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

Reply #23 – December 05, 2020, 04:27:57 pm

Matt,

Ours had a wire holding the flex away from the bulkhead. It's been a while but you may be correct that it is galvanized as it sure looks like it in the photo. Yes, black gritty dust that is dying for a match. You can't see in the photo but the flex with the wrap was held so it didn't touch the insulation. I'm thinking about putting an oval muffler on the back side and then pipe down and out. The muffler now is the lowest thing under the coach.

Before I put a new strap on the flex, it would rattle against the bulkhead when I started it and worse when I shut it down.

Matt, if you have the dimemsions for the mount, post them and I will see what I can find. Got to be around $10 from the right supplier if they are rubber, more for vinyl mounts.

Pierce

Re: Next Task - generator box insulation - questions

Reply #24 – December 05, 2020, 06:43:12 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – December 05, 2020, 04:27:57 pm

Matt,

Ours had a wire holding the flex away from the bulkhead. It's been a while but you may be correct that it is galvanized as it sure looks like it in the photo. Yes, black gritty dust that is dying for a match. You can't see in the photo but the flex with the wrap was held so it didn't touch the insulation. I'm thinking about putting an oval muffler on the back side and then pipe down and out. The muffler now is the lowest thing under the coach.

Before I put a new strap on the flex, it would rattle against the bulkhead when I started it and worse when I shut it down.

Matt, if you have the dimemsions for the mount, post them and I will see what I can find. Got to be around $10 from the right supplier if they are rubber, more for vinyl mounts.

Pierce

Our muffler is in the compartment with the cooling fan.

I now believe that the noise issue is from the exhaust flex pipe banging around. Not only could the flex pipe hit the cabinet, it was hitting a bare steel panel. Bang like a drum! A tether wire or some strapping might solve that.

Here is the dimensions for the mount. At $10ish a piece, it would be back to fun maintenance. (I am slightly cheap by nature, and I am addressing the engine insulation, coolant replacement, and likely transmission fluid replacement in the next couple of weeks, plus big list of little things.) The seller sent me an application for opening an account, and did not address my question about the proper capacity of the mounts. There are several, for different weights.

Item # J-20922-22, Small Industrial Engine Mounts On Astro-Tex Co., Inc.

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