Shore power and winterizing

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Shore power and winterizing

December 16, 2020, 01:32:25 am

I know these topics are probably road-worn; I've searched the forum at length and can't find the exact answers. Our coach (purchased in October at MOT) is in a covered, but open air storage facility. I have access to only one half of a 15-20 amp socket, but am plugged into it. I was told by MOT staff that this is not a preferred situation, but it's all that is available.

So, once plugged-in, should I leave the "battery switch" by the door "on" or "off" if I want to charge the batteries. Obviously I can't expect to do much else with the limited amperage. And, to charge the batteries, are there specific settings for the inverter? I also read several threads concerning turning on the boost switch to charge the engine batteries, but only for 8-hours, or 24-hours, or forever, or "don't do it at all." At the risk of opening a can of worms, is there a sweet spot for the boost switch to charge the engine batteries?

As far as winterizing. This is my third coach, but first diesel, and first with Aqua Hot. In the past I simply drained the lines...no blowing them with air, or juicing with the pink stuff. We live in the northeast corner of Texas, so freezing is usually only 27-32 degrees. Before our first 29-degree morning (Thanksgiving weekend) I went and drained the fresh water tank, and opened all the faucets, and then drained the lines--including the Aqua Hot. To date, our lowest temp has been 28, and only once. We've hit 31 two other times. So, tonight I'm reading through threads about Aqua Hot, and learn there's several score of copper pipe wrapped in there somewhere that can freeze and leave one with a $,$$$ repair cost. Are these lines not somewhat insulated? I guess I'm asking, at about what temp would they freeze?

Before y'all think I'm totally lazy, please know we plan to use our coach frequently--throughout the cold months--and if I can bypass the blowing-out the lines, and filling them with antifreeze we can get on the road a bit quicker. Yes, we paid for a premium motorhome, so if the extra effort is mandatory I'm on it.

Input please...but be gentle...I did try to search for these answers before asking.

BTW--this dedicated site is awesome. So many "oopsies" have been avoided thanks to the information you folk provide.

Re: Shore power and winterizing

Reply #1 – December 16, 2020, 09:57:52 am

Quote from: SRushing – December 16, 2020, 01:32:25 am

I have access to only one half of a 15-20 amp socket, but am plugged into it. I was told by MOT staff that this is not a preferred situation, but it's all that is available.

How often do you visit the coach to make sure the storage breaker hasn't tripped? (speaking from experience)

Quote

And, to charge the batteries, are there specific settings for the inverter?

It depends on the inverter. There often is a setting to tell it what the input current maximum is.

Quote

also read several threads concerning turning on the boost switch to charge the engine batteries, but only for 8-hours, or 24-hours, or forever, or "don't do it at all." At the risk of opening a can of worms, is there a sweet spot for the boost switch to charge the engine batteries?

If you cannot check the coach at least once a day, don't do it. If you have time, consider a trickle charger to do this - one that only charged the chassis batteries when the coach batteries are fully charged. The boost solenoid is not intended for continuous use AND if something happens in storage and you lose shore power for an extended period of time, with the 2 banks tied together you will drain ALL batteries and then not be able to start the coach or the genset. And then you might be looking at the cost of new batteries.

That said, do a quick search of recent threads regarding disabling the basement blower for the AquaHot. Might be worth adding this step if you don't have reliable shore power.

Quote

As far as winterizing. This is my third coach, but first diesel, and first with Aqua Hot. In the past I simply drained the lines...no blowing them with air, or juicing with the pink stuff. We live in the northeast corner of Texas, so freezing is usually only 27-32 degrees. Before our first 29-degree morning (Thanksgiving weekend) I went and drained the fresh water tank, and opened all the faucets, and then drained the lines--including the Aqua Hot.

We lived in NTX for 13 years, stored in 3-sides-covered with 50 amp, and always winterized with pink stuff. It's those freak freezes that get you (and your AquaHot and your Splendide). Neither one will survive an internal plumbing freeze without potable antifreeze. The Splendide manual specifically states you cannot winterize simply by draining the unit; you must use antifreeze. I believe the Foretravel owner's manual states the same thing for the AquaHot. A bucket, 6 gallons of pink stuff, and a short hose connected to the water pump let you sleep at night. Believe me, a 1 hour round-trip drive at 11 PM to fetch the coach and bring it home so you could monitor it while running the AquaHot overnight due to an unexpected change in the weather forecast is no fun...

Re: Shore power and winterizing

Reply #2 – December 16, 2020, 10:07:14 am

Steve, sent you a pm

Re: Shore power and winterizing

Reply #3 – December 16, 2020, 02:46:47 pm

Hi SRushing
For my coach stored outside in Canadian winter ( regularly 0 degrees F and below) I had my whole water system winterized with pink including my Splendide and Aqua hot. (Thanks for the advice everyone previously!!)

As far as power goes, I have my shore power (Freedom 25) inverter plugged into a 15 Amp circuit which charges my house batteries. Also plugged into the same cord to the 15 amp circuit plug are 2 Laski "my heater" heaters for the wet bays and a BatteryMinder 128CEC1: 12V 2/4/8 AMP Battery Charger-Maintainer charging my start batteries.. The plug has been doing fine and I check it every day but it seems to holds fine. My fridge and microwave and been unplugged at the breaker but there are a couple of led indicator lights on all the time that draws a parasitic draw...that is all.
Oh and my inverter is set at 15 amps

Re: Shore power and winterizing

Reply #4 – December 16, 2020, 04:04:16 pm

I live in Chicago and my coach is outside year round.
I learned the hard way, the first winter, to not assume anything when it comes to the cold. The only damage I suffered was I forgot to drain the outside bay faucet and it froze and cracked, I got off lucky. I now flush the entire system with the pink antifreeze and pour antifreeze in all the drains and run the washer and dishwasher with the antifreeze.
For my batteries they are all with chargers. The engine batteries have a charger, the house batteries are on my Victron inverter/charger. The coach is plugged into 50 amp service at my home.
In your situation I would not trust the electric service. I would fully charge all the batteries and disconnect all of them. I would try to get to the coach once a month and recharge the batteries.
You could try to install a small, portable solar panel to the roof of the RV cover to charge the batteries. Two would be nice. One for the coach batteries and one for the house batteries.

Re: Shore power and winterizing

Reply #5 – December 16, 2020, 04:50:59 pm

Only slightly off topic but maybe slightly humorous; A couple of years ago we were preparing to store our Roadtrek outdoors for a winter in Germany. I was unable to locate any potable antifreeze for the fresh water system. Thankfully the little Roadtrek did not require the five or six gallons of antifreeze that the Foretravel needs. My solution was to buy a couple of bottles of the cheapest vodka that I could find and fill the system with that. It worked like a charm and did not require as much flushing of the system the next spring.

Richard

Re: Shore power and winterizing

Reply #6 – December 16, 2020, 05:53:53 pm

Quote from: Lon and Cheryl – December 16, 2020, 04:04:16 pm

You could try to install a small, portable solar panel to the roof of the RV cover to charge the batteries. Two would be nice. One for the coach batteries and one for the house batteries.

I put 200w on storage shed and it does great in the summer but doesn't keep up in the winter with the overcast days (so parasitic loads drained the batteries faster than solar could recharge them). Worked out better to disconnect the batteries. Way less discharge of the batteries for me that way. 4 weeks and still at 12.74v on both house and start batteries. At least that has been my experience.

Re: Shore power and winterizing

Reply #7 – December 16, 2020, 07:35:16 pm

Quote from: Jan & Richard – December 16, 2020, 04:50:59 pm

Only slightly off topic but maybe slightly humorous; A couple of years ago we were preparing to store our Roadtrek outdoors for a winter in Germany. I was unable to locate any potable antifreeze for the fresh water system. Thankfully the little Roadtrek did not require the five or six gallons of antifreeze that the Foretravel needs. My solution was to buy a couple of bottles of the cheapest vodka that I could find and fill the system with that. It worked like a charm and did not require as much flushing of the system the next spring.

Richard

Actually, you didn't even need to flush it. Just invite your Russian friends over for drinks.

Re: Shore power and winterizing

Reply #8 – December 16, 2020, 07:41:48 pm

Richard,

Now...I'm going to presume you bought several extra bottles and when the coolant system was full - you consumed the remaining amount as "personal antifreeze".
Jim
U320

( don't ask me how I know about this)

Re: Shore power and winterizing

Reply #9 – December 17, 2020, 12:06:38 am

O-kay...with those last posts I'm going to make an Absolut guess Richard flooded the lines with 42 Below...(rimshot, please)

Thanks Michelle for the replies with detailed explanations. I'm going to order a trickle charger, and turned off the boost switch this afternoon (turned it on just yesterday.) Your suggestions on winterizing were driven home in a phone call to Rudy. He basically said to get the Aqua Hot winterized today.

To those who suggested placing solar on the roof--um, well, it's a rented space.

Since it's supposed to dip down to about 28-degrees tonight I purchased 9-gallons of the pink anti-freeze and headed over to where the rig is stored. The hose connecting the fresh tank to the water pump was long enough to reach the bottom of my 5-gallon bucket. After closing all the drain valves, and faucets I decided to open the hot tap in the wet bay since it's conveniently located on the opposite side of the water pump.

So, I pressed the pump switch, heard some expected gurgling, and was shocked to see how much clear water poured from the faucet. I quickly checked the other side to make sure the pump was sucking anti-freeze...good, almost 2 gallons headed to the Aqua Hot. And...as I rounded back to check on the faucet...my heart sank. The ground below the Aqua Hot bay was a pink pond. Turned-off the pump switch, raised the Aqua Hot bay door, and despair turned to joy as I realized I forgot to close the Aqua Hot drains.

Closed the drains, re-started the process and in under 30-minutes had the entire coach winterized. In the end I'm glad I bought the 9-gallons since at least two will be helping prevent the ground around my rig from freezing.

The main takeaway hammered home to me during the process was how wrong I was in thinking simply opening the drains and faucets would allow gravity to vent all the water held in the lines. Each faucet had several ounces of clear water before turning pink.

I'm so grateful for this forum, and your responses.

But, I'm going to ask again...when plugging into the 15-amp receptacle do I need turn the battery switch by the door "on," or "off?"

Steve

Re: Shore power and winterizing

Reply #10 – December 17, 2020, 12:20:49 am

Quote from: SRushing – December 17, 2020, 12:06:38 am

But, I'm going to ask again...when plugging into the 15-amp receptacle do I need turn the battery switch by the door "on," or "off?"

Steve

I always turn my salesman switch off when leaving the coach in storage. If you were plugged in and were using the coach heat then you would leave it on.

There are several parasitic draws of power if the switch is left on. propane detector, CO detector, other minor draws.

Re: Shore power and winterizing

Reply #11 – December 17, 2020, 12:47:50 am

Quote from: SRushing – December 17, 2020, 12:06:38 am

The main takeaway hammered home to me during the process was how wrong I was in thinking simply opening the drains and faucets would allow gravity to vent all the water held in the lines. Each faucet had several ounces of clear water before turning pink.
I'm so grateful for this forum, and your responses.

Bet this was the easiest 10k you ever saved. Trust me repairing the aqua hot after freeze damage is a big job.
You are not alone in your gratitude to the forum. Endless correct support!
Scott

Re: Shore power and winterizing

Reply #12 – December 17, 2020, 09:35:24 am

Quote from: SRushing – December 17, 2020, 12:06:38 am

And...as I rounded back to check on the faucet...my heart sank. The ground below the Aqua Hot bay was a pink pond. Turned-off the pump switch, raised the Aqua Hot bay door, and despair turned to joy as I realized I forgot to close the Aqua Hot drains.

Trust me, you're not the first

Re: Shore power and winterizing

Reply #13 – December 17, 2020, 09:41:41 am

Quote from: stevec22 – December 17, 2020, 12:20:49 am

I always turn my salesman switch off when leaving the coach in storage. If you were plugged in and were using the coach heat then you would leave it on.

There are several parasitic draws of power if the switch is left on. propane detector, CO detector, other minor draws.

Double-check the LP and CO detectors. I believe they are still active even with the switch off. I can't recall which battery bank (chassis or house) they are actually connected to.

I was surprised to learn the basement AH blower and pump will also operate even if the AH is off. There's a recent thread where instructions to disable this (when shore power is limited and you are winterized) as well

15 amp 120v shore power to run aquahot

Re: Shore power and winterizing

Reply #14 – December 17, 2020, 10:19:57 am

I am glad you winterized your water and AH systems. After a few times it goes pretty quickly. And the dewinterizing only takes an hour or so as well.

If your coach is sitting unused anywhere where the temperatures can reach or go below freezing, winterize. Any damage caused by freezing will take way more time and money to fix than what it took to protect your coach.

The salesman switch can be turned off if you want (it doesn't have to be off). It turns off more parasitic loads like the radio, none are large but they add up. The CO and LP detectors remain on. Our CO/LP detector will go off sometimes when we are winterizing and running the RV antifreeze out of the faucets or pouring it into the drains. I guess it doesn't like the chemicals or the smell of the antifreeze.

On limited power make sure the MW, TV, VCR or DVD and BOSE system if you have one are all unplugged. Even "off" they are on. You can turn off the appropriate circuit breakers to do this.

Even on a 15 amp connection your charger/inverter will charge the house batteries. If they are charged up when you enter storage mode it takes very little to keep them charged. Some older inverter/chargers will take more power to be on than it will use to charge the house batteries. Very few will also charge the start batteries, the Victron Multiplus does. We have a Sterling ProCharge Ultra which has separate charger outputs for multiple battery sets and will isolate and smartly charge them independently as needed. Smaller and uses less power to be on it is an alternative to leaving the bigger inverter/charger on.

This one is 30 amps and can charge both the house and start batteries.
Sterling ProCharge Ultra Lite 30 Amp Battery Charger

Re: Shore power and winterizing

Reply #15 – December 17, 2020, 08:33:10 pm

Luckily, I am able to keep my coach here in Colorado in a heated garage. My question though is- When stored outside for the winter, should all the P-Traps also have anti-freeze ?

Re: Shore power and winterizing

Reply #16 – December 17, 2020, 09:10:02 pm

As well as being plugged into a 15 amp breaker (see my post previous in this topic) I took the C and D fuses out of the aqua hot turned off the diesel and electric switches and my aqua hot never comes on. (Including the storage bay..)It is effectively shut off. I also turned the bay thermostat all the way left to 0

Re: Shore power and winterizing

Reply #17 – December 17, 2020, 11:49:55 pm

Mark, traps should have a cup or three of RV antifreeze in them.

The thermostat in the bay has no off position. To disable it add a three wire disconnect plug. I used a 4 wire trailer wire harness connector pair. Be sure to keep the wires connected as they were, there is a diode in the thermostat wire harness.

Re: Shore power and winterizing

Reply #18 – December 18, 2020, 01:32:01 am

More good info—thanks especially for the salesman's switch explanation. I don't want to start disconnecting items because, even with a checklist I'm bound to forget something. From prior coaches I do have a habit of unplugging the microwave.

My inverter is a new Magnum 2812 compliments of MOT. The original blew in a freak surge the morning I was to pickup the rig. The owners manual did not make it into the coach, but I found one online last night. After getting to peruse over the weekend I'll probably have a few more questions.

Thank you, everyone!

Re: Shore power and winterizing

Reply #19 – December 18, 2020, 11:25:08 pm

I blow out my lines, add anti freeze to the traps and tanks to stop the valves freezing, plug into a 30 amp shore power, hook up to a 110 gallon propane tank, cover "all the windows" with bubble foil "insulation"
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Reflectix-R-21-100-sq-ft-Unfaced-Reflective-Roll-Insulation-48-in-W-x-25-ft-L/3011906?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-bdm-_-google-_-lia-_-102-_-insulation-_-3011906-_-0&placeholder=null&ds_rl=1286981&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxKeWnJfZ7QIVgaGGCh1IiApeEAQYAiABEgIBJfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
then pull down the blinds to keep them in position, set the thermostat at 55 degrees and wait for the next trip.
A great way to monitor your coach is this gizmo at $10 a month monitoring
Amazon.com: RV/Dog Safety Temperature & Humidity Sensor | 4G Verizon...
It will alert you on your phone to a temp drop.
I will use about $350 worth of propane from November thru April.
This way we leave all the bedding, clothes, basic food, toiletries etc in the coach.
Would prefer to be on the road, somewhere warm or just away, but covid with nothing to do got my wife buying us a smaller house that she has me doing a 1000 sq ft extension on, this is using all my non work and travel time, as the coach wonders what has happened. The by weekly engine starts and running the generator, over Christmas I will take the coach out for a run just to make her get some exercise!
There is no right or wrong just so long as you don't freeze your pipes!

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Shore power and winterizing

Reply #20 – December 19, 2020, 02:59:51 pm

Quote from: "Irish" – December 18, 2020, 11:25:08 pm

I blow out my lines
There is no right or wrong just so long as you don't freeze your pipes!

I wish I could blow my lines out simply. With the aqua hot and the thirty 18" vertical loops it is very difficult to blow out. Shame they wouldn't drain on there own, but they won't. Now putting them on a vacuum pump after you blow them out you could remove every last drop after several hours. Maybe next year I will give that a try, also water frozen in a vacuum does not expand and break anything. It actually is boiling while it freezes. It also continues rapidly evaporating till it is gone in a vacuum.
Scott

Re: Shore power and winterizing

Reply #21 – December 19, 2020, 03:41:42 pm

Quote from: dsd – December 19, 2020, 02:59:51 pm

I wish I could blow my lines out simply. With the aqua hot and the thirty 18" vertical loops it is very difficult to blow out. Shame they wouldn't drain on there own, but they won't. Now putting them on a vacuum pump after you blow them out you could remove every last drop after several hours. Maybe next year I will give that a try, also water frozen in a vacuum does not expand and break anything. It actually is boiling while it freezes. It also continues rapidly evaporating till it is gone in a vacuum.
Scott

I was going to bring this up but figured most members wouldn't have the ability to pull vacuum on the system. If I lived in a freezing climate I would pull vacuum just because I could.

Re: Shore power and winterizing

Reply #22 – December 31, 2020, 04:17:06 pm

FYI,

Some antifreeze will boil over with engine heat. If the engine pump is circulating through the AH, it can be damaged by steam expansion. I had this happen and rebuilt my AH, lesson learned.

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